embrace the tank...

[Packer Brother]

I wish. My 4 year and 2 year old kids are on the list and I would love for them to get season tickets in their lifetimes. Probably not going to happen though.

Ah cool. How far have they moved up on the list in the last several years? My cousin is at number 5,000 ( Been on since 05), and said he's moved up 3,600 spots ( including expansion) in the last five seasons.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

What decent QB is on the street right now?

A marginally better QB isn't going to make much difference. Our primary problems are:

1) Our corners are terrible
2) Our pass rush is ineffective
3) Our defensive game plan fools no one
4) Our offensive game plan -- without Rodger to audible -- fools no one.

Uhm, the guy who everyone knows I was referencing is MUCH better than Hundley. In his last year with San Fran, a team that's actually worse than the Packers without Rodgers, he completed 59% of his passes for 16 TDs and only 4 INTs. So yeah, that QB would make a difference. Not a huge difference but luckily the NFC North isn't very good so it doesn't take much to stay in the race until (if) Rodgers comes back. Instead, we get a head coach who can't design a game plan that doesn't require: STEP 1 - trust best QB to make your conservative, unimaginative offense look really good....the other steps don't matter. Yeah, the corners are bad and the pass rush is ineffective. That's not surprising since the corners were awful last year and Thompson's plan was that House would fix things. The pass rush answer was basically trust that Perry will be healthy all year for the first time ever and Matthews will recover his form from three years ago. The defensive gameplan is what it is, at this point Capers doesn't know what to do and it shows. The whole thing needs to get fixed and hopefully the silver lining to Rodgers being injured will be to finally expose the incompetence of many in the organization that he's been propping up.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Sad but true. This is a rare opportunity for the Packers, and hopefully one we'll never have to be in again. It'd be great if we could draft a gamechanger in next year's draft.

Packers have too many holes to fill with one guy, best result of getting a high draft pick would be the chance to trade said pick for a boatload of later picks to try and fix the numerous holes on this roster; team has serious needs at OLB, CB, tackle (can Bulaga really be trusted anymore?), maybe safety if HHCD doesn't turn it around, CB again, DE, WR, TE....basically, with Rodgers on the team, the Packers appear to have good players and depth at DT, RB, and....uhhmmm, long snapper?

 

[Poppa San]

.uhhmmm, long snapper

You mean the guy that bounced the ball back to the holder on the first field goal snap?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

realize a 4-12 record gets the Packers a 10-15 draft pick and a 4th place schedule in 2018.

If the Packers truly finish this season at 4-12 they will most likely receive a top five draft pick.

Nope, never going to embrace tanking a season until it becomes mathematically impossible to make the playoffs. Not at that point. Is it unlikely? Of course.. but I'm not putting it into miracle territory.

After watching the Packers perform at a terrible level over the past two games it would definitely be a miracle if they would end up making the playoffs.

Why tank? Why not just sign a decent QB to the team that has proven he can play in the NFL and keep the team afloat until Rodgers can come back.

I highly doubt that Kaepernick or any other quarterback currently available not knowing the team's offensive system would improve the chances of the Packers winning some games going forward.

Packers have too many holes to fill with one guy, best result of getting a high draft pick would be the chance to trade said pick for a boatload of later picks to try and fix the numerous holes on this roster;

The Packers probably have already 11 selections in next year's draft because of receiving four compensatory picks for losing Lang, Hyde, Tretter, Cook, Lacy and Peppers while only signing Bennett and Evans counting towards the formula. Therefore I would prefer the team to use an early first rounder on a game changer hopefully having an immediate impact.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Uhm, the guy who everyone knows I was referencing is MUCH better than Hundley.

Um.. no.

 

[gbgary]

If the Packers truly finish this season at 4-12 they will most likely receive a top five draft pick

yes. was being conservative. you never know how many 4-12 or worse teams there will be.

 

[Packer Brother]

The other guys in the 70's and 80's ( From what I've heard) were just clueless. They didn't know any better. Thompson was regarded as one of the smartest GM's in sports. What happened? Why has he blatently ignored gaping holes for years? Why is Capers still here? Is Murphy just fat and happy knowing fans will show up regardless? I'm starting to believe 2010 was an outlier.

I'll say this: This team may very well get beat by the Browns. That will be a sad, yet not unrealistic outcome.

 

[rmontro]

At some point Hundley's going to get comfortable enough to win a few games. They'll probably win just enough to not make it worth their while (for those embracing the tank). Figures the one year we don't have a slow start, Rodgers gets hurt. Those games he won will likely just send us further down the draft list.

Is Murphy just fat and happy knowing fans will show up regardless? I'm starting to believe 2010 was an outlier.

My suspicion is that Murphy's main concern is the money. As long as Rodgers is around to drag the team into the playoffs, the fans will be there.
2010 was definitely an outlier because it is definitely not business as usual to win the Super Bowl every year. They haven't even made it back to the big game.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Is it still considered tanking if one is not actually trying to tank?

 

[rmontro]

Is it still considered tanking if one is not actually trying to tank?

I think that's called losing.

 

[Carl 2]

Uhm, the guy who everyone knows I was referencing is MUCH better than Hundley. In his last year with San Fran, a team that's actually worse than the Packers without Rodgers, he completed 59% of his passes for 16 TDs and only 4 INTs. So yeah, that QB would make a difference. Not a huge difference but luckily the NFC North isn't very good so it doesn't take much to stay in the race until (if) Rodgers comes back. Instead, we get a head coach who can't design a game plan that doesn't require: STEP 1 - trust best QB to make your conservative, unimaginative offense look really good....the other steps don't matter. Yeah, the corners are bad and the pass rush is ineffective. That's not surprising since the corners were awful last year and Thompson's plan was that House would fix things. The pass rush answer was basically trust that Perry will be healthy all year for the first time ever and Matthews will recover his form from three years ago. The defensive gameplan is what it is, at this point Capers doesn't know what to do and it shows. The whole thing needs to get fixed and hopefully the silver lining to Rodgers being injured will be to finally expose the incompetence of many in the organization that he's been propping up.

After seeing a recent article on-line, I now understand why MM had such a conservative gameplan with short passes - Hundley had 4 picks in 7 quarters prior to the Lions game.

If he had let Hundley air it out, the picks would likely continue.

It seems more like Hundley's ability limiting the play calls rather than MM limiting Hundley.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

I think that's called losing.

Hard to embrace a loser.

 

[Croak]

Hard to embrace a loser.

Thankfully my wife to be didn't think so 40 years ago when I proposed to her. Yes a physics teacher actually asked her if she was still dating "that loser".

 

[AmishMafia]

My suspicion is that Murphy's main concern is the money. As long as Rodgers is around to drag the team into the playoffs, the fans will be there.
2010 was definitely an outlier because it is definitely not business as usual to win the Super Bowl every year. They haven't even made it back to the big game.

Riiiiiggght. The team that is sold out every home game in Lambeau since the 1950s, is reliant on Rodgers to sell seats.

 

[PackAttack12]

yes. was being conservative. you never know how many 4-12 or worse teams there will be.

Highly doubt there will be 10. There's normally only a few.

 

[yooperpackfan]

Riiiiiggght. The team that is sold out every home game in Lambeau since the 1950s, is reliant on Rodgers to sell seats.

Sorry Amish, but in the 50's the Packers were pathetic and playing in the old wooden City Stadium and their games were not sold out.
The Packers were on the verge of financial collapse and were saved by some very influential businessmen, one of whom was Sam Cohodes an Upper Michigan businessman and banker.
He forced a lot of the businessmen to buy season tickets and invest in the Packers.
Ishpeming Michigan, my hometown, was awash in Packers tickets and that's how I saw my first Packers game in City Stadium in 1956.
And I have been a fan ever since.
At this point, the Packers are not reliant on Rodgers to sell seats, but if Ted Thompson remains and the Packers return to the 70's and 80's once Rodgers is done all bets are off.

 

[gbgary]

As long as Rodgers is around to drag the team into the playoffs, the fans will be there.

Packers fans have proven they'll be there no matter what. you don't have a ticket waiting list 30+ years long built with fair-weather fans.

 

[AmishMafia]

Sorry Amish, but in the 50's the Packers were pathetic and playing in the old wooden City Stadium and their games were not sold out.
The Packers were on the verge of financial collapse and were saved by some very influential businessmen, one of whom was Sam Cohodes an Upper Michigan businessman and banker.
He forced a lot of the businessmen to buy season tickets and invest in the Packers.
Ishpeming Michigan, my hometown, was awash in Packers tickets and that's how I saw my first Packers game in City Stadium in 1956.
And I have been a fan ever since.
At this point, the Packers are not reliant on Rodgers to sell seats, but if Ted Thompson remains and the Packers return to the 70's and 80's once Rodgers is done all bets are off.

You are correct. 1960 was the year. I was thinking 57 or 58 And just wrote 50s.

 

[HardRightEdge]

a 4-12 record gets the Packers a 10-15 draft pick

It would be a better pick than that. There are only 10 teams with fewer than 4 wins right now with nearly half the season left to play. It would likely be a top 5 pick. Anyway. there's probably a couple of wins left to be had.

Hundley is making progress. First, it was 3 picks. Then it was 1 pick but not much in the way of throws and yardage in a "break him down to build him up" kind of game. Game 3 was not half bad statistically thanks to the 4th. quarter hurry up.

A guy can practice or play preseason games against second and third stringers until you are blue in the face, but you don't know what you have until he's pressed into service in the money games. This is a process of discovery for the coaching staff in answering the question, "who is Brett Hundley, really?"

So far, he looks like the guy they drafted: a spread option QB who can run, an accurate short passer, less accurate with the long ball, about average NFL arm strength, a guy who can make things happen in hurry up just as was the case in college.

Now, are you going to tailor the offense to his strengths and make the other guys adapt or are you going to make him play within "the system" in an exercise aimed at developing traditional NFL pocket passing skills? It's got to be the former since this is not a case where he's not the best candidate on the roster to climb to something approximating a franchise leader. That's what you do if the guy is the #1 pick of a rebuilding team. This is not that.

But despite whatever marginal gains in productivity out the QB position might be in the cards, it's not auspicious that the defense is heading in the wrong direction, especially the pass rush which has devolved throughout the season into something pretty dismal. Capers needs to find a fix and in a hurry.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yeah right, we'll draft Sam Darnold so the Stooges will have a QB and be able to keep their jobs once Rodgers retires

Well, if Rodgers starts in with weepy thoughts of retirement, skips OTAs and comes late to camp, then by all means go get a replacement.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I can't say I've read every post since the Lions game, but of the ones I've read there's an obvious note that has not been made.

After all the bellyaching about injuries early in the season, did anybody notice that the projected starters on both sides of the ball were playing on Sunday with the exception of Bennett and the long snapper? And Perry has the club off as an added "bonus" though it would be hard to tell the difference. Yet the blocking and the defense, hit hard by injuries early on, don't look any better with all hands on deck. So, there's that.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

because it's NOT getting much better for 2017. it'll be a miracle if they win 2 more games. this isn't an angry rant. i'm calm, just being realistic. i don't think they're intentionally tanking but that IS what's happening. they're in the tank and headed to the bottom. so...embracing the tank is better than getting/staying angry. realize a 4-12 record gets the Packers a 10-15 draft pick and a 4th place schedule in 2018. if this happens the ONLY way it's going to be beneficial for 2018 is if Capers and Ted Thompson are gone. a change in defensive, talent acquisition philosophy and evaluation, has to happen. new voices have to be heard. i don't think there's any way Capers and TT survive this. they will be encouraged to retire. so...smile the rest of the way. embrace 4-12 and the tank. better times are right around the corner.

Go learn Bear Down and root for Chicago

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I have an idea to curb the pessimism:

Hire Brett 1.0 as the QB coach, and then Brett 2.0 will start turning into a gunslinger who takes no sacks and possibly some of the balls he throws end up as jump-ball TDs to Jordy and company.

 

[swhitset]

I have an idea to curb the pessimism:

Hire Brett 1.0 as the QB coach, and then Brett 2.0 will start turning into a gunslinger who takes no sacks and possibly some of the balls he throws end up as jump-ball TDs to Jordy and company.

I'd rather go down swinging .... sounds good to me.