Doubs Missing Practice

Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
15,620
Reaction score
6,619
Honestly getting a sub 4.4 guy is not as unicorn oriented as it used to be....we have Melton also on the squad. And check this out...

2024 WRs with sub 4.4 speed and round they went:

Ladd McConkey - 2nd
Jacob Cowing - 4th
Roman Wilson - 3rd
Anthony Gould - 5th
Devontez Walker - 4th
Adonai Mitchell - 2nd

2023...
Trey Palmer - 6th
Derius Davis - 4th
Matt Landers - UDFA
Bryce Ford-Wheaton - UDFA
Marvin Mims - 2nd
Jalin Hyatt - 3rd (4.40 time)
Tre Tucker - 3rd (4.40 time)

2022...
Tyquan Thornton - 2nd
Velus Jones - 3rd
Calvin Austin - 4th
Danny Gray - 3rd
Bo Melton - 7th
Christian Watson - 2nd
Ahhh. Yes. Now show me how many in that fast group match Christian Watson’s Official 1.45 10 Yard Split?

I’ll even give you both

His 20-yard Split 2.45. How many in that list match (or beat)EITHER Split? Take your pick

Thornton at 180lb is the only one that comes to mind. At 180! Xavier Worthy didn’t match either Split. That’s how fast Watson is
 
Last edited:

SudsMcBucky

Cheesehead
Joined
May 17, 2022
Messages
237
Reaction score
187
Location
Buford, GA
Honestly getting a sub 4.4 guy is not as unicorn oriented as it used to be....we have Melton also on the squad. And check this out...

2024 WRs with sub 4.4 speed and round they went:

Ladd McConkey - 2nd
Jacob Cowing - 4th
Roman Wilson - 3rd
Anthony Gould - 5th
Devontez Walker - 4th
Adonai Mitchell - 2nd

2023...
Trey Palmer - 6th
Derius Davis - 4th
Matt Landers - UDFA
Bryce Ford-Wheaton - UDFA
Marvin Mims - 2nd
Jalin Hyatt - 3rd (4.40 time)
Tre Tucker - 3rd (4.40 time)

2022...
Tyquan Thornton - 2nd
Velus Jones - 3rd
Calvin Austin - 4th
Danny Gray - 3rd
Bo Melton - 7th
Christian Watson - 2nd


Don't know what happened to my post, but you forgot 2 guys from this year, one of which was only fastest, Xavier Worthy. Also Brian Thomas.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,884
Reaction score
5,530
@OldSchool101 splits added for referencing since you asked

2024 WRs with sub 4.4 speed and round they went (excluding first rounders as discussion point is not as rare anymore to get):

Ladd McConkey - 2nd (1.52 split)
Jacob Cowing - 4th (1.52 split)
Roman Wilson - 3rd (1.51 split)
Anthony Gould - 5th (1.5 split)
Devontez Walker - 4th (1.54u split)
Adonai Mitchell - 2nd (1.48 split)

2023...
Trey Palmer - 6th (1.53u split)
Derius Davis - 4th (1.46 split)
Matt Landers - UDFA (1.51 split)
Bryce Ford-Wheaton - UDFA (1.52 split)
Marvin Mims - 2nd (1.50 split)
Jalin Hyatt - 3rd (4.40 time) (1.55u split)
Tre Tucker - 3rd (4.40 time) (1.47 split))

2022...
Tyquan Thornton - 2nd (1.41 split)
Velus Jones - 3rd (1.46 split)
Calvin Austin - 4th (1.44 split)
Danny Gray - 3rd (1.51 split)
Bo Melton - 7th (1.53 split)
Christian Watson - 2nd (1.45 split)
Don't know what happened to my post, but you forgot 2 guys from this year, one of which was only fastest, Xavier Worthy. Also Brian Thomas.
my post was outside the first round - sorry noticed I didn't put that but I excluded first round guys as we were talking about how it isn't as hard to get them these days.
 

Magooch

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
932
Reaction score
882
To be fair I think the thing about Watson is not just his speed though...Watson is physically a bit of a unicorn honestly. He's as fast as anyone - not just his 40, but his 20 and 10 splits are arguably even more impressive - but he also has huge hands, a 39" vertical, and 11'+ broad jump, and of course to top it off he's 6'4" and 200lbs+.
You might be able to find another 4.36 guy but the odds of him matching Watson trait for trait are slim to none....

Of course none of it matters if he can't manage to stay on the field though
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
15,620
Reaction score
6,619
To be fair I think the thing about Watson is not just his speed though...Watson is physically a bit of a unicorn honestly. He's as fast as anyone - not just his 40, but his 20 and 10 splits are arguably even more impressive - but he also has huge hands, a 39" vertical, and 11'+ broad jump, and of course to top it off he's 6'4" and 200lbs+.
You might be able to find another 4.36 guy but the odds of him matching Watson trait for trait are slim to none....

Of course none of it matters if he can't manage to stay on the field though
True. He had 11 WR score above his athletic profile across 37 Combines

Javon Walker is really the closest comparative we’ve seen in GB. That’s how rare he is. MVS would be on the lower end of a Speed replacement

Point being #9 is not “easily” replaced. as a deep threat. His impact is felt past just his listed production. He helps by just being on the field.
 
Last edited:

Magooch

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
932
Reaction score
882
With regards to Doubs too, this surprised me: His career catch percentage is 61.7% and this season it's pretty much right there too at 60%. In my mind he is considerably more sure-handed than that...it's not terrible by any means (still better than Wicks, Watson, etc) but adjusted for the volume of targets he gets I'd have expected that number be higher...maybe my perception is just off
 

milani

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
4,767
Reaction score
1,835
That aligns with a more practical approach. No team is going to purposefully “feed you” much more than 100 targets in a season unless you prove first to be a potent producer. Imo the only guy who has earned that right? Jayden Reed. That guy is head and shoulders above anyone in that WR Room. I’m not saying he’s the only good player, but he’s the Great player right now. IMO l, Reed is the only WR who definitively could go to any NFL team and win a starting role upon suiting up. Now I’m not down on our WR’s and I like Doubs and Watson, but I really can’t say that about either of them. There’s a realistic chance that on many NFL teams they would regress.
I could not see anyone whining about targets in the BB and Brady era in New England. If you did they would expand your employment opportunities.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
33,511
Reaction score
8,800
Location
Madison, WI
With regards to Doubs too, this surprised me: His career catch percentage is 61.7% and this season it's pretty much right there too at 60%. In my mind he is considerably more sure-handed than that...it's not terrible by any means (still better than Wicks, Watson, etc) but adjusted for the volume of targets he gets I'd have expected that number be higher...maybe my perception is just off
Let's not forget that when Love went down in Brazil, the playbook and mindset of the offense got changed. For 2 games, the offense was being run by Malik Willis, a guy that had barely been in Green Bay for 2 weeks. I also think that Doubs is probably getting covered by the other teams #1 or #2 DB, depending on where Reed lines up. So yeah, I can understand that he might be frustrated with his lack of opportunities, but not showing up for 2 practices isn't going to fix that.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,884
Reaction score
5,530
To be fair I think the thing about Watson is not just his speed though...Watson is physically a bit of a unicorn honestly. He's as fast as anyone - not just his 40, but his 20 and 10 splits are arguably even more impressive - but he also has huge hands, a 39" vertical, and 11'+ broad jump, and of course to top it off he's 6'4" and 200lbs+.
You might be able to find another 4.36 guy but the odds of him matching Watson trait for trait are slim to none....

Of course none of it matters if he can't manage to stay on the field though

Absolutely not the normal build, old school and I were just talking getting an elite speed guy. I actually didn’t even remember all the dudes (I know sorry everyone) that had went with sub 4.4s just the past three years.

Getting elite speed is not as rare as it once was.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,884
Reaction score
5,530
With regards to Doubs too, this surprised me: His career catch percentage is 61.7% and this season it's pretty much right there too at 60%. In my mind he is considerably more sure-handed than that...it's not terrible by any means (still better than Wicks, Watson, etc) but adjusted for the volume of targets he gets I'd have expected that number be higher...maybe my perception is just off

That percentage includes bad throws and uncatchable balls and defender break ups.
 

milani

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
4,767
Reaction score
1,835
Absolutely not the normal build, old school and I were just talking getting an elite speed guy. I actually didn’t even remember all the dudes (I know sorry everyone) that had went with sub 4.4s just the past three years.

Getting elite speed is not as rare as it once was.
When 1964 Olympic Star Bob Hayes was drafted by the Cowboys the league was not so certain his body was made for pro football but college would be OK. He was called the world's Fastest Human at the time. Despite his speed the handful of times the Packers played him he was not a major impact although he did impact the game plan. There were fast receivers then but no one quite that fast.
 

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
7,384
Reaction score
2,227
I'm not surprised this has happened, I'm surprised that it took so long. We have '4 #1 WRs' only plays so long. I'm sure mentally they all thought they were the true number 1 regardless of what coaches/management were saying. This season though it has become apparent that Reed probably is actually the #1. Now with Watson down, if Wicks then was the next up option in the game plan, in Doubs mind that put him #4 (if not worse). If this is the case then I get his frustration given it impacts his future and future earnings. However.. he handled it poorly (to say the least).
Good points. The market value of top WRs has taken a significant leap in the last 4 years, give or take. It started around the time Adams got paid $30 mil/year by the Raiders (with the Packers willing to match). He may not have been the first WR to get that kind of money, but he was close. And now with Jefferson and Lamb, that needle is around $35 mil/year.

So from a selfish standpoint, a solid receiver wants the chance to develop and get some of that money. Being part of a talented platoon isn't the right path. As the "young" Packer receivers get into the 3rd and 4th years of their contract, it seems natural that each one wants the most receptions.

I'm not sure how this plays out in GB, beyond Doubs' hissy fit. I think Reed has a chance to be a #1 WR. I don't see him ascending to Jefferson money, but I didn't see it coming with Adams either. And if Wicks solves his drop problems, he could be a #1 WR and worth a lot of money. At this point though, and as talented as they are, I don't see any Packer WR in that $30 mil/year plus club - yet.
 

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
7,384
Reaction score
2,227
That percentage includes bad throws and uncatchable balls and defender break ups.
That's a good point. The denominator in this case should really be dropped balls that were catchable. Problem is that "catchable" is too subjective to use as a quantitative measure. Two people can easily disagree on "he shoulda caught that pass."
 
Last edited:

Voyageur

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 10, 2021
Messages
2,703
Reaction score
2,174
With regards to Doubs too, this surprised me: His career catch percentage is 61.7% and this season it's pretty much right there too at 60%. In my mind he is considerably more sure-handed than that...it's not terrible by any means (still better than Wicks, Watson, etc) but adjusted for the volume of targets he gets I'd have expected that number be higher...maybe my perception is just off
What that percentage doesn't include is that Doubs has been our 3rd down "go to guy," who ends up with contested catches. It's not like hitting someone in the open field. His percentage won't be at the top of the list, but the percentage of times he moves the chains on critical downs will be what makes the difference.

This is one of the reasons I hate stats when they don't spell out the inconsistencies in what they report.
 

Voyageur

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 10, 2021
Messages
2,703
Reaction score
2,174
When 1964 Olympic Star Bob Hayes was drafted by the Cowboys the league was not so certain his body was made for pro football but college would be OK. He was called the world's Fastest Human at the time. Despite his speed the handful of times the Packers played him he was not a major impact although he did impact the game plan. There were fast receivers then but no one quite that fast.
Yes. He forced teams to play the Cowboys for the long pass, because if he got a step, it could end up being six. Every team needs a player or two who can stretch the field, because it forces defenses to play against it. Yet, in today's game, you don't need a world class sprinter, you need someone who fits in that upper 5% to 10% range in speed. With safeties like McKinney, you eliminate a lot of that threat, because he's a ball hawk, and often plays like a center fielder, who is free to go to the ball.
 

Schultz

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
1,658
True. He had 11 WR score above his athletic profile across 37 Combines

Javon Walker is really the closest comparative we’ve seen in GB. That’s how rare he is. MVS would be on the lower end of a Speed replacement

Point being #9 is not “easily” replaced. as a deep threat. His impact is felt past just his listed production. He helps by just being on the field.
True. It has already been proven how hard he is to replace. Unfortunately, he has proven it by needing to be replaced way too much.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
15,620
Reaction score
6,619
That's a good point. The denominator in this case should really be dropped balls that were catchable. Problem is that "catchable" is too subjective to use as a quantitative measure. Two people can easily disagree on "he shoulda caught that pass."
Yes. I don’t pretend to know what their formula is to qualify as a “drop”. Yet i can deduce that they don’t hand out drops liberally. It shows he has 5 drops and I recall Romo saying he had 2 the previous week 4. Plus I remember talking about it pre game that he already had 4 drops. So that infers the contested longer catch we were discussing (that went through both hands) was not counted a drop.

That just goes to show us that a drop? is a BAD drop. Meaning it’s clear cut. There’s no reason for it hitting the face mask or numbers or both hands type stuff.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
15,620
Reaction score
6,619
Which kinda leads me to the conclusion in Wicks relative favor. If he has 29 thrown his way total. Do the math
10 were catches
5 were drops.
14 were either “off target” or considered more difficult opportunities
That 14 is an unusually high number as it’s nearly 1/2 of all targets. So you can reasonably deduce it’s partly reflective that Love/Malik were slinging some mud his way.

It could also include there’s a poor connection on the assignment. Such as our QB/play design expecting him to be somewhere he’s not. Vice Versa he’s in his spot and the QB was just trying avoid a Sack and unload it in his vicinity etc.

My conclusion? If I’m Wicks I’m skipping practice tomorrow. They can’t fire us all!! :tup:
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,884
Reaction score
5,530
Interview with Doubs at his locker. Folks this man is going through something. I wouldn’t be shocked to learn something severe in his family happened or mental health issues…he is not okay.
 

Magooch

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
932
Reaction score
882
Interview with Doubs at his locker. Folks this man is going through something. I wouldn’t be shocked to learn something severe in his family happened or mental health issues…he is not okay.
I jus watched too. Don't want to speculate or armchair diagnose but I've worked in mental health for quite some time and yeah, he does not seem to be doing too well yet. I know for some people it is beneficial to just get back into the swing of things but I can't help wonder if some additional time off wouldn't perhaps be helpful too. Hope the team has some folks taking good care of him.
 

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
7,384
Reaction score
2,227
I jus watched too. Don't want to speculate or armchair diagnose but I've worked in mental health for quite some time and yeah, he does not seem to be doing too well yet. I know for some people it is beneficial to just get back into the swing of things but I can't help wonder if some additional time off wouldn't perhaps be helpful too. Hope the team has some folks taking good care of him.
Good points by you and Ty. It's fair to say that all of us have had our work disrupted (and affected) at some point by matters completely outside of work. It's even harder on a very young person like Doubs who is still maturing, physically and emotionally. If things are serious (and the reasons could be many), maybe he does need time off.

In any case, the matter is between Doubs and the team. I give him credit for saying anything and hope he works out whatever is happening in his life.
 

Magooch

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
932
Reaction score
882
What is also interesting is that while Doubs seemed to refute the idea that it had anything to do with his targets/role on offense/etc, Bill Huber (who was the first to “break” that news) is more or less standing by his original “scoop” on the matter. Very odd. Bill is usually pretty accurate IMO and certainly would not seem like the kind of guy to just make something up. But Doubs himself also certainly seemed to be genuine in what he was saying…
 

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
7,384
Reaction score
2,227
What is also interesting is that while Doubs seemed to refute the idea that it had anything to do with his targets/role on offense/etc, Bill Huber (who was the first to “break” that news) is more or less standing by his original “scoop” on the matter. Very odd. Bill is usually pretty accurate IMO and certainly would not seem like the kind of guy to just make something up. But Doubs himself also certainly seemed to be genuine in what he was saying…
That's a puzzle. Doubs doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would lie, and he was pretty specific that the incident last week was personal, and his part was in not communicating with the team. Sounds right to me.

If Huber is right then we should expect some dissatisfaction from Doubs, but I just don't see that happening. He came out and said the missed days were not about his role on the team and I believe him.

On a broader topic, I guess this is one down side to having roughly four good to very good WRs and all close in terms of talent. They all want the ball. I think Wicks and Reed are the most promising of the group, and Doubs is that reliable, third-down guy we know will catch the ball (thinking of Randall Cobb).

All of them have a reasonable expectation to be targeted each game. Yet there are only so many targets in each game. And if MLF is as smart as we think he is, the run game will be more prominent the rest of the season.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
33,511
Reaction score
8,800
Location
Madison, WI
I watched Doubs 6 minute interview at his locker yesterday. This was the first time I watched Doubs be interviewed at his locker and my first reaction was "Wow, he is really hurting, I wish the reporters would see that and just **** and walk away". I give Romeo credit for standing there, under the heat of the questions for that long. I give the reporters an "F" for continuing to grill the man from every which angle they could. Interviews like that are what give reporters a bad Rep.

Now the "good news", at least from my perspective. I watched a few other interviews with Doubs, before this incident. The guy is very humble and "shy" and I think yesterday was just a situation where he was embarrassed and afraid to say the wrong thing. My hope is Sunday will put this matter behind him.

Here is one of his previous interviews.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top