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Donald Driver and the Jaguars.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Chicocheese, Oct 26, 2012.

  1. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Mooch used to be a Packers coach you know? dont think he was a Wisconsin native, but from Michigan
     
  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Driver has zero chance to go to the hall of fame. The position is so back logged, on top of that driver was never an elite NFL WR. There are 17 WRs in the HOF right now who played in the NFL since the merger. They will be adding at least 4 to that list in the next decade most likely. Issac Bruce more than likely wont go in and he has excellent numbers along with the whole greatest show on turf claim.

    Still my favorite packer tho. Doesn't make him any less likable in my eyes. You can still have a favorite player and not be a homer about it.
     
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's difficult comparing stats across eras, though Hutson's still stand up, especially if you break them down on a per-game-played basis. And when you measure him against his peers, the numbers are pretty staggering. He holds the following NFL records:

    Most seasons leading league in pass receptions (8)
    Most seasons leading league in pass receiving yards gained (7)
    Most seasons leading league in pass receiving touchdowns (9)
    Most seasons leading league in scoring (5)

    He was also a 2-time league MVP.

    Hutson played in the two-way era and was considered an outstanding safety. He was also the place kicker for several seasons.

    But the reason Hutson will be on the NFL's 100 year anniversary team is the way he redefined his position and how the game is played. Hutson is widely attributed with inventing many of the modern pass routes you see today at a time when the game was three-yards-and-a-cloud-of dust. Hutson did for the WR position what Lawrence Taylor did for the OLB position, and then some, with his impact rippling though the history of the game to the current day.

    In the final analysis, Driver will be considered an outstanding player but not quite NFL HOF worthy. His legacy will be considered to be something less than a guy like Stanley "Steamer" Morgan, or among current players roughly on a par with Anquan Boldin. He'll certainly be in the Packer HOF; but he won't be in the Ring.

    There is really no comparison at all between Hutson and Driver. Hutson is a legend of the game.
     
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  4. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    And back then they didn't have pass interference. They didn't have the schemes or the QB talent.

    His TD record stood for so long it's amazing. He is truly the babe Ruth of football
     
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  5. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I would take issue with statements that Hutson would not be an elite player in the modern integrated game.

    He was VERY fast. You can see it the few clips that are available. If he walked on the field today, in modern equipment with modern cleats on modern turf, you'd see a guy with physical skills equivalent to Lance Alworth.
     
  7. slaughter25

    slaughter25 Cheesehead

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    First thing, you make it sound like because not everyone was throwing the ball 30+ times a game that the players and coaches were just running around like chickens with their heads cut off whenever a team went to a passing play against them. It is foolish to think that teams were not anticipating and scheming to stop Don Hutson as much if not more than DD at any point in his career, especially now.

    I also pose this train of thought to you in regards to the perceived athleticism difference in todays game vs when Hutson played. Isn't it fair to say that both the WR and the DB athleticism has increased in a more balanced way. Sure today we have guys like Revis smothering WRs at the line of scrimmage for the entire game. But we also have guys like Calvin Johnson. I don't remember the exact figures but it was on Sports Science on ESPN. Given his wingspan and height without moving his feet he could catch a ball withing the distance of a garage door around him. Incredible. You can also say there were no guys like that back then.
     
  8. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Not sure how true it is, but this forum talks about his 100 yard dash time


    http://packerrats.com/archive/index.php/t-789.html


    Olympic times

    http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/archive/results.jsp?sex=M&disciplineId=1&id=1

    9.6 to 9.8

    So Hutson was just as fast as Olympic runners
     
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  9. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Those look like 100 meter times, where 9.7 makes you a world elite sprinter. Here are top 100 yard dash times, a distance that has not been run at elite levels for quite some time:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_yard_dash

    Still, 9.7 in the 100 yard dash is VERY FAST, and from the clips I'd say that was possible for Hutson. There are probably not a dozen players in today's game who could match it. Bob Hayes held the world record at 9.1; Bo Jackson reportedly ran 9.3; O.J. Simpson 9.4; Lance Alworth 9.6.

    I'm a little skeptical of translating that 9.7 to a 40 time, not knowing Hutson's start speed vs. closing speed, but you'd expect it to be in the 4.3's, give or take a bit.[/quote]
     
  10. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Hutson would benefit from today's training as well.
     
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  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    No scroll down to 1970 and 60 and 50...there are YARDS mixed in


    1953
    F: 100 yards; S/F: 8/8; D: 26 JUN
    1. Arthur Bragg 9.5 =MR
    2. Thane Baker 9.6
    3. James Golliday 9.6
    4. Joe Schatzle 9.6
    5. Joe Graffio 9.6
    6. Lindy Remigino 9.6

    1967
    F: 100 yards; S/F: 8/8; D: 22 JUN; W: -4.0 mph
    1. James Hines 9.3
    2. Charles Greene 9.3
    3. Paul Nash (SAF) 9.4
    4. Willie Turner 9.4
    5. George Anderson 9.5
    6. Larry Dunn
    9.5
     
  12. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I’ll post this again just so there is no misunderstanding: I love Donald Driver’s contributions to the Green Bay Packers. I just recognize he’s at the end of his great career.

    - - - - - -

    This is “piling on” at this point but I’m very happy to see Packers fans give the great Don Hutson his due. Six years ago, Cold Hard Football Facts picked who they consider the “greatest football team ever assembled”. What made their effort different is they restricted themselves to picking only 11 players. Of course Don Hutson was one of the 11. A lot of players played on both sides of the ball at the time Hutson played and as HardRightEdge mentioned, Hutson wasn’t an exception. But he didn’t just play DB, he was damn good on the other side of the ball, too. Here’s what CHFF had to say about him:

    “No receiver in history – not even Jerry Rice – dominated the position like Don Hutson. He was also a stellar defensive back and a clear choice to make any superstar team, including our All-Time 11, where he shreds defenses at wide receiver and shuts down opposing offenses at cornerback.

    Hutson's signature campaign was 1942, when – in an 11-game season – he intercepted seven passes and hauled in a Ruthian 74 receptions for 1,211 yards (16.4 YPC) and 17 TDs. Projected over a 16-game season, that's one of the greatest receiving seasons ever: 108 catches for 1,761 yards and 25 TDs.”

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/all-time-11-the-greatest-football-team-ever-assembled/5442/
     
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  13. slaughter25

    slaughter25 Cheesehead

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    Holy crap. Add that on to a shade over 10 INT on the other side of the ball over 16 games and you might have one of the most impressive seasons ever played by anyone.
     
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  14. gwh11

    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    I think you have to understand that Driver meets absolutely none of the more important factors/criteria the Pro Football Hall Of Fame voters typically use when discussing possible candidates.

    Driver has never been voted to any All-Pro teams during his career.

    He has never led the conference or league in any meaningful statistical category.

    He has never held/broken any NFL records.

    He has never been considered among the very best (top three or so) at his position at any point in his career.

    He has been voted to Pro Bowls on only three occasions (not a HOF-caliber number in this era).

    He is nowhere near the top of any important all-time statistical lists for receiving (TDs, yards, receptions).

    A cherished player who will be in the team's HOF someday? Absolutely. But he will never be enshrined in Canton. He does not have that kind of resume.
     
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  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    And /there is the DAGGER from GW
     
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  16. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Interesting to see Bobby Bell recognized in this way. A phenomenal football player lost in the fog of time.
     
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