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Does Better Attitude = Better Record ?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PackOne, May 16, 2006.

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Who will step up and be the team leader this year ?

  1. Barnett

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  2. Hawk

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  3. Favre

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  4. Kampman

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  5. Other

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  1. PackOne

    PackOne Cheesehead

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    With the recent trade of Javon Walker and today's article on "good guy" Manuel, will this apparent re-tooling of team attitude lead to more W's in the win column ? Ted Thompson has made it abundantly clear that he plans on drafting and keeping "good" attitude guys on the roster. Re-signing a humble Donald Driver, showing a selfless Kampan the money, and drafting blue collar A.J. Hawk are all signs that attitude will be a top-shelf staple in Green Bay for quite some time. History proves that attitude and team spirit can take a team to the top. The Denver Broncos proved it in two straight superbowls led by T.D. who embraced his teamates after every touchdown. The Rams, Patriots, and Ravens have all had similar make-ups. On the flip side, the championship Buccaneers had many squabbles. I as a Packer fan, certainly hope this attitude adjustment translates into the win column. Green Bay has a great base I believe, but, who will be that Ray Lewis or Terrell Davis type leader to show others the way ? Barnett ? Hawk ? Favre ? Kampy ? So many questions - is it August yet ?
     
  2. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    I chose Favre because there is no other choice for this team. Favre is the GB Packers right now, so he must be the leader for the team.

    Aside from that, I think that we will have several quiet leaders in Driver, Woodson, Harris, Barnett, Green, Franks, Tauscher, etc. We need those veteran players to be leaders to help the young guys develop.
     
  3. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    i cant see hawk coming in and leading a team as a rookie with personalities like Favre. And i think your more likely to find a leader in barnett who has the experience or maybe even new comer woodson
     
  4. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    All of the above.
     
  5. Favreforever721

    Favreforever721 Cheesehead

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    I think a good attitude will equal about 1 win more. It really does help when teammates like each other, but it can't always make up for lost talent.
     
  6. CalifPacker

    CalifPacker Cheesehead

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    I choose Favre because he has been the leader since coming off the bench and leading Green Bay to victory. The man is a rare breed.
     
  7. tonytokes

    tonytokes Cheesehead

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    I think that attitude has everything to do with everything!

    Sorry to get "cheesy" on you guys, but my job is teaching business leadership and the underlying message in anything i've studied or taken in has been 'attitude'. Whether that be in business or in sports, so much can be said for the power of character, integrity, continuity, unselfishness and most of all (among plenty more), putting something greater before yourself.

    Now this sounds all fine and dandy, I know, but if it can come together in a way that has its own strong leadership (MM, we'll see) at the top then TT's approach could pay huge dividends for the Packers. Maybe not quite the obvious difference this year but continue on track and that attitude will turn into a Winning one.
     
  8. net

    net Cheesehead

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    Lets flush a load of crap posted above first....FLUSH! If American business possessed 10% of what you mention above it might be true. What I've seen is greed, nastiness, loyalty to those who kiss arse and total desire to strip as much from the situation as possible while staying in business long enough to get the 'nut' then pull out and let someone else handle the headaches. Then on Sunday(sleep in) and tell people you have a higher spirit in front of you(until Monday then repeat the cycle).

    Attitude. Bullcrap. Talent.

    Talent is what wins in the NFL. Every athlete who steps onto the professional football field knows his job is to produce or be canned. The teams that win put together a collection of talent capable of winning consistently. Sprinkle in a little intelligent coaching and you have the makings of a winner. Attitude schmatitude.

    If I put the nastiest 'attitude' players from Division III onto one professional football team does that make them a winner? The reason they all played at Division III is THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE TALENT TO PLAY AT A HIGHER LEVEL REGARDLESS OF THEIR ATTITUDE.

    I don't give a damn if someone has attitude. Just tackle the runner, block for your QB and runner and deflect the pass that comes your way.

    Surprise! you win.
     
  9. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Ask the Indy Colts if talent wins championships there bucko.

    Every NFL team has talent its an elite league with the best athletes around, and there isnt a single team made up of no talent. even the 49ers and jets have talent. the fact is, like my pops always says, attitude is everything. YOU NEED BOTH TALENT AND ATTITUDE. and since every NFL team has talent, then attitude goes a long way towards improving a team.
     
  10. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    But every team is filled with players that have the talent to play at the top level.

    There have been several teams to load up and talent, but continue to fail to produce. How many years in a row has Washington gathered some of the top talent? How has that produced for them? The reason for failure, attitude.

    Detroit has gathered the top talent at WR from several drafts, along with a top talent at QB -- do they have the best passing game?

    Minny gathered some very good talent for several years, but can't put it all together.

    Talent plays a huge role, there's no doubt about that, but it's not the only factor. The right attitude and approach to the game makes a huge difference. Pittsburgh was not the most talented team last season, but they won the Super Bowl. Talent's great, but if it's not put together right with good coaching and the right attitude, that team will not be successful.
     
  11. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    WOW....now THAT's a bad attitude!

    You've obviously had some bad bosses. There are millions, yes millions of great small businessmen in this country that take care of their employees. I hope you eventually find one.

    Back on subject:

    I think the presumption of the question was that talent is pretty much even in the NFL. Some teams have more talent than others but we are not talking division 1 vs. division 3 difference.

    All things being equal or close to equal.....attitude makes all the difference in the world for pretty much any profession but especially in an emotional field like professional football!!
     
  12. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    WOW, net. Take the few in the headlines and ignore the millions that do good every day. Seems you almost want a reason to be pissed.

    Attitude means alot. Yes, you have to have talent, but all things being equal, or even comparable, attitude has the ability to push a group beyond expectations. As much talent as the 1996 Packers had, they were also a very cohesive team that had many strong leaders and excellent character.

    Something along the lines of the "sum being greater than the parts".

    Attitude matters.
     
  13. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I think one of the major things that goes hand-in-hand with a good attitude is accountability. I'm all about accountibility. Those who screw others end up losing in the end because the buck can only be passed so many times until the buck-passer has to either face the music or fail. Those who remain accountable for their actions do well in life. Those who remain accountable for their actions and take the partial responsibility for the actions of others because of the role they played with that individual come out the winners. It is a matter of the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. When players take responsibility for their actions and how their actions affect the whole unit, great things can happen. But that type of person is a rare breed, and rarer still is compiling an entire team with that mentality.
     
  14. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I don't think you need, or could construct, an entire team of that type of person. But, a team needs enough of those people to influence and lead others who might not be inclined or capable of doing so on their own.
     
  15. agopackgo4

    agopackgo4 Cheesehead

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    Come on who else but Favre would be the team leader? He has only been the leader for the last 10 and more years! Why would that change this year??????
     
  16. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Yes, Favre is a team leader, but you also need leaders on the offense, defense and ST. We have not had a true leader on defense since LeRoy retired...Hawk seems likely to fill that void and bring others along for the ride. Henderson is a ST leader. Favre is indisputeably the leader of the offense.

    A team needs as many leaders as it can get...provided their visions are shared and not in conflict.
     
  17. tonytokes

    tonytokes Cheesehead

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    Did you even read my post?

    Good football teams are good football teams. They have proper leadership and a winning attitude that comes down from the top (see the Steelers, Patriots of the 2000s etc). Bad football teams are exactly that... entirely because of a lack of leadership. Whether that's the front office bringing in players or a quarterback who can't look his guys in the eyes and demand more.

    Good business is good business and bad business is also exactly that. It still relies on proper leadership and a certain mentality, a certain way of treating those around you gets you more than the next guy. A quick buck can be made through swindling and everything you described but ask the guys at Worldcom and Enron about that... oh, wait... you probably can't. They're in jail.

    I'm 25, grew up on welfare and am a three semester college dropout. I run an advertising agency with 10 employees in Atlanta doing sports marketing for the Braves, Hawks and Thrashers. Nothing, and I mean nothing, would have put me in this position without an incredibly crazy great attitude, proper perspective on life and helping those around me become even more successful than I am. People with more education, more talent and more character. My job is making these people better and ask any of them -- even former employees -- and they'll have nothing but great things to say on the impact I've made in their life and how it's helped them advance (in any direction they've decided to take it)

    Attitude is EVERYTHING.

    Period.

    If I had to venture a guess... I'd say you aren't a very successful man. Dont live in the neighborhood you want, dont drive the car you want and dont have the flat screen that you want to watch football on Sundays. Define success how you will, possessions or otherwise, but you tell me if you've reached it. I could be wrong, but judging by YOUR attitude, you've limited yourself along the way.

    Just as every NFL player who lacks it pays the consequences in some regard.

    Ask Jerry Rice or Joe Montana about a "winning attitude". Then have them hold up their hand for you... marvel at the rings, baby.
     
  18. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    holy ****. nicely done!
     
  19. spardo62

    spardo62 Cheesehead

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    I agree, I don't know if there is a perfect equation to produce a winner, but I think the bottom line is TALENT and having 1 or 2 big time playmakers on both sides of the ball. We can look at the 70's RAIDERS, YANKEES, ATHLETICS as just a few examples of questionable attitude/chemistry but awesome talent that created winning teams. On the flip side I am hard pressed to come up with examples of teams that only had good chemistry/attitude and no playmakers that ever won anything.

    We need Woodson, Barnett, Hawk to emerge as this type of player on defense and someone other than Brett(who is declining) to take over this position on offense. At that point, chemistry will be icing on the cake.
     
  20. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Well put Tony. Having created and lived through some rough patches in my earlier life by taking calculated risks that did not pan out, I know how much attitude plays in one developing a "pick myself up and dust myself off" mentality that is necessary to move forward and/or recover from our mistakes.

    It is entirely too easy to be bitter and angry...but it requires more work, combined with a positive/constructive attitude, to go the other direction...the positive direction.

    Congratulations on your business. It is refreshing to encounter young entrepeneurs who have experienced success....and who have remained grounded.
     
  21. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

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    All the Packers have to do is think happy thoughts and pat each other on the *** and they will win every game! 16-0!
    No really. Reality has nothing to do with the fact that the Packers talent level would seem to have them doomed for a losing season. Especially with the greatest leader of all time taking snaps again. A man who can make a decision. A man who says what he means and means what he says!
    Attitude! GO TEAM GO! RAH RAH RAH!

    I have worked with and have trained many people who have had a positive attitude and they did not work out. Why? Because they were just not very good at what they were being paid to do. That same situation crosses over into every sector of the job market. That includes the NFL. Being a pro football player is a job no matter how you look at it.

    Maybe they can get "Up with people" to sing at the half time show when the Packers make it to the Super Bowl this season.

    By the way, if having a plasma TV or a new Lexus is how you define yourself as a successful human being then I feel sorry for you.
     
  22. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    To me, a good solid positive attitude may not make you the big winner but it will make you better than your talent indicates. I point to ONE man to whom attitude made a huge difference...Lombardi. He had the winning attitude that wouldn't settle for less than your (and his) best. He took losers and made them winners. His attitude infected his players to a point that they became world champions. NO ONE EVER questioned his positive attitude. He made players accountable. They became better men because of him.
     
  23. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Favre is clearly the leader.

    On defense there shouldn't be a question either. It's Barnett. Hawk is a rookie he needs to earn respect before he leads.
     
  24. tonytokes

    tonytokes Cheesehead

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    id probably have better luck pitching the concept of winning attitude on a slayer/pantera message board apparently........

    the point is that nothing significant happens without that attitude in place. it doesn't necessarily mean "positive" fake crap. a winning attitude is comprised of four elements: responsibility, intensity, positivity and belief. being positive, and only positive, makes you a cheerleader and that doesnt get anyone very far.

    i think the packers lacked any semblence of intensity under sherman... i never saw him get in a guy's face or go irate to a point where he didnt look like a big baby. the packers played like sherman carried himself.

    "new leadership" is bringing that back to the table with people who happen to play football for what many would deam the right reasons and it shows in their level of intensity and their love for the game.

    as far as defining success: please don't feel sorry for me. perfectly happy with my 32" regular television and basic cable, thanks.

    i wasn't trying to define success but say [whatever makes you FEEL successful or "measured up in your subdivision rat race life you live way over your head in"] won't actually happen without the prerequisite of a winning attitude.

    ive seen a lot of talent on a lot of teams amount to a lot of nothing.
     
  25. spardo62

    spardo62 Cheesehead

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    I agree...to a point. I think the Lombardi example is a goal to strive for, however in addition to his attitude, accountability, etc. He had stars on both sides of the ball that allowed the transformation of this attitude/character into championship teams. I think it would be far more difficult, if not impossible to build champions out of high charecter players with average to above average NFL talent and no difference makers on the field. Conversely, I think 3-4 difference makers on a questionable character team could get it together enough to win.
     

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