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Do we now go CB in the 1st rd?

Discussion in '2010 Draft Archive' started by Pat4DaPack, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  2. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    if you would click the link instead of just typing away you would see that its SIs top 10 D backs. Not just me dreaming of Prince. Try again.
     
  4. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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    It's a pipe dream to even consider him on the list. Perhaps a BETTER POST would be to do some conjecture into who you think would be around for our pick instead of just posting a list of top 10 DBs in the draft. Anyone here can copy and paste. Try again.
     
  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    its a pipe dream to consider him as one of the top 10 d backs? yeah you clearly dont know what your talking about.

    I would say try again but you clearly failed both times.
     
  6. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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    Its a pipe dream for PACKER FANS to consider him on a list of DRAFTABLE players at the position for which this topic has been started. He will be gone. Once again, I ask you to please throw in some opinion that is YOURS. Your EPIC FAILURE to do so only truely shows that YOU do not know what YOU are talking about.
     
  7. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    :rotfl: @ you. Nice to see you figured out how the shift key works.

    I was going to post my opinion on each player but instead I had to waste time reminding you to click the link instead of just reacting like a monkey.
     
  8. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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    I am awaiting your analysis so I can pick it apart.
     
  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    wait for awhile since I have a couple meetings to go to. Check back later tonight.
     
  10. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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    In your stead, I will throw in my analysis:

    1. I strongly believe that Peterson (LSU) is the best CB prospect that is available to be drafted this year. His combination of size (6-1, 222) and speed (4.42e)is unmatched by any DB in college football. He has also competed against higher competition on a regular basis. He is already being touted as a possible HOF player and if he declares, may go top 3. Reminds me a lot of Nate Clements because of his ability to possibly play FS and return kicks.

    2. Prince is most likley the 2nd best CB prospect in college football, and is tops among senior CBs, albeit in a weak senior class with only one sure-fire 1st round talent (Jimmy Smith is most likely an early 2nd round talent). Should go top 10 at worst. Plays ball a lot like Leon Hall from Cincy.

    3. Jenkins is a curious pick for the #3 CB on this list for a few reasons. First of all, he has a small frame (5-11, 186) and does not possess top-flight speed to go with it (4.52e). That is a lose/lose for a CB in the NFL. Has a style similar to Patrick Robinson of the Saints. In addition, he just had shoulder surgery and will miss the Outback Bowl. Second rounder at best and I would for certain place Brandon Harris above him on this list.

    4. Jimmy Smith is the 2nd best senior prospect, and should be above Jenkins for the reasons listed above. He has good size for a CB (6-2, 205) and still has speed (4.49e). He has a concussion in his history which some team docs will consider. He can also play FS in the NFL or become an Antonio Cromartie clone. Late first rounder/early 2nd rounder.

    5. I am extremely perplexed with SIs pick of Jarrett as the 5th best DB available for the draft, especially considering that Carter (OK) and Williams (NC) have better measureables and faced better competition. Jarrett has OK size for a FS (6-0, 202) but not blazing speed for the position (4.57e). Reminds me a bit of Louis Delmas from the Lions, but would be a reach to be taken in the 2nd round. Third rounder at best for me.

    6. Aaron Williams is another surprising pick. On our board he is the 6th best JUNIOR CB. He has workable size (6-1, 195) and speed (4.49e) but is very, very raw. Think Jamal Reynolds and Robert Ferguson raw. I would even put Harris (Miami), Minnifield (VA), and Burton (Utah) ahead of him. 3rd rounder at best.

    7. Gilchrist is another surprise to be ranked here. Once again, I think SI should have placed Carter and Williams ahead of him, as well as Jarrett. Not a big guy (5-11, 190) but the best speed of any senior FS in the top 20 seniors at that position (4.49e). Late 3rd/early 4th rounder at best.

    8. Finally SI adds Brandon Burton of Utah! Brandon is a bit thin (6-0, 185), but has speed to play CB in the NFL (4.49e). 5the best CB in the junior class and could be a 2nd rounder if he declares.

    9. Robert Sands is another mystery here at #9 overall for all DBs. Big for a FS (6-4, 221) and has some speed (4.57e), but is not very agile. I would fellow junior FS prospects Moore (UCLA) and Tate (Maryland) ahead of him. 3rd rounder.

    10. Another surprise to see Carter from OK down this far. Probably the best senior FS in college football. Has decent size (6-1, 200) and speed (4.57) for the position. Should be a 2nd round prospect who looks a lot like Madieu Williams in his style of play.

    11. The final prospect SI provides is DeAndre McDaniel a SS out of Clemson. He is the consensus best senior SS and has that coveted size/speed combo (6-0, 215 and 4.54e). It is surprising to see SI have him fall to the 3rd/4th round as I believe he should go in the 2nd round. Look at Josh Bullocks to find a comparison.

    In summary, I find that SI missed big time on their list in regards to several prospects. In fact, the only spot we agree on is having Prince and Peterson in the top 2...but even then we had our picks flipped. I still contend that Peterson is the best DB in college football, and should he declare, he will go top 5. Prince could fall to 10, but won't go beyond that.

    I would personally rank my top 10 as so:
    1. Peterson (LSU) - top 5
    2. Amukamra (Nebraska) - top 10
    3. Harris (Miami) - 1st
    4. Smith (Colorado) - late 1st/early 2nd
    5. Jenkins (Florida) - 2nd
    6. Carter (Oklahoma) - 2nd
    7. Moore (UCLA) - 2nd
    8. House (NM State) - 2nd
    9. McDaniel (Clemson) - 2nd
    10. Patrick (Louisville) - 2nd
     
  11. Packfan14

    Packfan14 Cheesehead

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    yeah. i see that.

    but i completely forgot about Nate Irvin out of NC State.
    In my mind he would make a great linebacker for Green Bay. Even though he is a MLB, He'd be good compliment to CM3 on the pass rush.
     
  12. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Just out of curiosity.

    How did you break down the 2010 DBs? I'm specially interested in your opinion of Taylor Mays, Joe Haden and Kyle Wilson...
     
  13. TheGiftedApe

    TheGiftedApe TheGiftedApe

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    cb? no Unless patrick patterson falls to us at #32

    Right now we have woodson, williams and shields who should all be back next year.(I still think underwood might have a chance to work into a larger role at cb)

    I would say LB, OL, RB, DL, safety before cb.
     
  14. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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    Irvin would be an OK choice in the 4th round or later. He has the speed to be an effective edge rusher (4.68), but he isn't very big (6-1, 232). I posted a while back about what minimums you need to be an elite pass rushing OLB, and Irvin just seems too small using that scenario.
     
  15. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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    Last year, we had this as our top 10 prior to the draft:

    1. Berry - top 5
    2. Haden - top 10
    3. Thomas - 1st
    4. Mays - 1st
    5. Wilson - 1st
    6. McCourty - 1st
    7. Jackson - 1st
    8. Robinson - 2nd
    9. Allen - 2nd
    10. Burnett - 2nd
     
  16. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Wow. Mays a 1st rounder? Wow. B.J. Raji is more fluid than him.
    Didn't like Wilson in the first, but that's more hindsight than anything.

    The guy I really didn't like and was extremely happy that got took was Cook...
     
  17. PackisBack

    PackisBack Cheesehead

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    I still say it should go like this:

    1. OL
    2. OLB
    3. DB

    Not many rookie CBs are going to be good enough to cover up problems getting to the QB, which is why I put OLB ahead of CB. Imagine having another CM3 on the other side...

    And our OL still struggles a lot, especially with the running game. Get another decent big guy up front that we can train for the future. Remember, Clifton isn't getting any younger and who knows whether Tausch will ever be back.
     
  18. turbo69

    turbo69 Cheesehead

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    If we draft a Maniac (OLB) in the first round, it would help our CB's big time. I say no to drafting a CB in the first. Get one in the 3rd and save our first and second for a OLB and a O-lineman. Oh........and all this talk about trading Flynn right now is crazy. The guy can play. Who would replace Rodgers if he goes down..........Jarrett Bush???......lol.

    One last thing. Slocum needs to go. I have been screaming for his head for a couple years now. Watching a 300 lb guy run 70 yards against our special teams is totally unacceptable. One of a couple things that cost us that game. How many times are we going to watch the special teams FK up????
     
  19. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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    A lot of people had Mays in the first round simply because of his athletic ability. You see that play where he changed directions from the LOS to chase down Jhavid Best for a loss from the backfield? THAT is mobility my friend.

    Oh and stating that he was less fluid than Raji is asinine however...albeit an attempt at a joke I'm sure.
     
  20. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFa4aEsZzzw]YouTube - S Taylor Mays Highlights/Lowlights 2009 USC[/ame]

    If you don't think he's plain abysmal in coverage, I'll take your input on DBs with a huge grain of salt.

    BTW, 3 cone drill:
    Taylor Mays: 6.98 in his pro day
    Morgan Burnett: 6.87 in his pro day
    Eric Berry: 6.80

    B.J. Raji was 7.90... Okay, maybe Raji is a stretch (obviously a joke)

    But here's a perspective:
    Clay Matthews: 3.90

    Yeah, Mays is fast in a straight line. Mays hits hard. Mays is stiffer than 240 pounder (at the time) Matthews, and Mays misses more assignments in the passing game than Aaron Rouse (another stretch but very comparable players, actually). There's a huge reason Mays only had 4 ints in college.

    No team picked him in the first for a reason, and he struggled mightly when he played for the 49ers, to the point that they had to go back to an awful Reggie Smith (their whole secondary has been awful this year).
     
  21. DCEBB2011

    DCEBB2011 Cheesehead

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    First and foremost, I never once said he was good in coverage. I just said that he was a first round talent. Now, how ever you want to break that down, feel free. But there were several reasons he had a first round grade, and I stand by that assessment.

    If you read our analysis, you will note that we did state that he has tight hips in man coverage. But teams knew that he was most valuable in the box or in deep zone coverage anyhow.

    I think abysmal is a bit of a strong word to describe him in coverage anyway. Perhaps if you stated the difference between his skills in man vs. zone coverages you would have made your point a bit less blurry. Feel free to disagree with that assessment and take anything I say with a "huge grain of salt" as I would expect nothing less than skepticism on a forum of all places.

    I also believe you misquoted Clay Matthews' time of 6.90 as 3.90. Which you should consider is what makes Matthews as successful as he is. Perhaps it is better to argue that Matthews shows the agility of a Safety instead of saying that Mays shows less agility than a LB. This is because the average 3-cone time for a FS eligible for last year's draft was 7.01 compared to 7.15 for all LBs. It shows that both were above the average for their respected positions.

    The freakish combination of size and speed that Mays possesses is what made him a talented, but raw prospect. The first round grade was applied because of his pure potential. Could he turn out to be great? Of course he could, which would make a lot of people look foolish for passing on him. And of course he is going to struggle as a rookie... most do. I recall another 3rd round safety for our very Packers getting destroyed for TDs against stiff competition this year (Megatron had at least one as I recall).

    Keep in mind that I am not trying to make an argument for Mays, but instead am backing up the process that I use to pay my bills. We take great pride in our analysis at NFLDS and I take great pride in providing the best data to fellow Packer fans. The big thing to consider is that players fall almost unexpectedly. Look at Aaron Rodgers! He was a consensus top 2 pick and fell to 24! Players are always going to fall in drafts for uncertain reasons. The best we can do is speculate why, but in truth we will almost always never know for sure. I guarantee the same thing will happen this year, and the year after that, and so on because that is the nature of the beast. But if you ask me, I prefer to at least try to understand the process and take guesses instead of sitting by idly...or you can take all that with a grain of salt.
     

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