1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Do we need a deep draft, adding 7 more rookies for training camp

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by DILLIGAFF, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +4
    We have such a young team at this point, would not mind if TT uses half our picks in trade to get another first round pick and move up in the second round. I think if we only draft 4 players in the second round or higher we will be fine, rather than having 7 to 10 rookies entering training camp.

    using our picks 3 through 7 and some players in a trade, Hawk,Jones, Nelson, D. Lee, Poppinga, Brandon Jackson, Bush, Crosby

    Example

    Trading Hawk and a 3rd round pick for another first round pick or a high second round pick with a 6th or 7th round pick

    or

    the Packers 4th/5th/6th for another high second round pick and 7th.

    That would give the Packers 4 good picks in the first 2 rounds.

    stud O-lineman, best available at the guard or left tackle position.
    the best available at the CB/safety position.
    best available pass rusher at the inside/outside LB position.
    Best available RB/kick return/ Percy H. Type player, new toy for the offense and special teams

    If TT shys away from trades/ free agency, do we need to take a Jerry Jones approach and get 3 or 4 key additions to the team in the draft in the upper 2 rounds. Really at this point with the depth we have on the team, those picks 3 on down will have to fight for a roster spot.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
    That technique really depends on the draft.
    Last year's there was almost nobody TT thought was worth in the 2nd or 3rd. In the 5th, however, he thought he could find some gems.

    I don't know much about the second day of the draft, I'm not gonna talk about something I don't know.
    But you get my point.

    Higher draft pics doesn't translate to better players.

    But let me assure you, TT will make a lot of moves in this draft.

    I understand what you're saying, though. And I believe last year's draft was a clear statement that we're no longer shopping for quantity; we're not rebuilding.

    To sum it up, I don't know if he'll move up or down, but I'm definitely sure he won't stack picks just to get more players like he did in the past, and that if opportunity presents itself, like CM3, TT will spend draft picks to move up the board. But, it's TT we're talking about, he's naturally conservative.

    -

    Also, I got a feeling, no info, nothing I heard, just a "feeling", that we'll get something more than a backup in FA this year. There'll probably be some young good FAs out there, that have low profile, and that's exactly what TT aims for.

    But I don't expect any trades (involving players).
     
  3. AllouezPackerFan

    AllouezPackerFan Section 121 Row 47

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,609
    Ratings:
    +339
    Would be willing to guess that most of the players you mentioned will be Packers next season. Especially Poppinga, Jones, and Brandon Jackson. As much as I hope we get rid of him, I think Crosby will still be our kicker. You gotta remember Kampman is probably gone as well, and Jones is probably going to be a viable option at linebacker next season. Hawk and Donald Lee definitely have some trade value. I don't think we need a tremendously deep draft, but we can't give up a lot to move up.
     
  4. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +4

    I guess this year I see some quality talent in the high 2nd round and above. My thinking is how many more Quin Johnsons or Brad Jones do we have roster spots for. I just see the potential of a lot of these picks being cut, so rather than wasting the picks trade up.
     
  5. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
    I'm sorry man, but I disagree with your evaluation. Quinn seems like the future starter at FB, and a damn good one, too. His blocking skills are far superior than anything we have. He just have to improve in the playbook, which he did.

    And Brad Jones is AT LEAST a very solid rotational player. Finding those at 7th round is of great value. It's players like him that make a team champion. Just ask the Steelers that lost Polamalu and didn't have anyone to put. That, considering that Jones isn't going to pan out as the starter. We don't know what's his ceiling. What we do know is that a 7th round pick performed better than an elite veteran, and was a better starter than Hawk or Bigby, in comparable situations.

    Let me just add that trading Brad Jones, Jordy Nelson and Brandon Jackson is not only highly unlikely, but crazy.


    They performed very well down the stretch, are really young, and have a very good future.

    Also, it's impossible to trade kickers. And punters.
     
  6. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +4
    You are miss understanding me. I don't want to trade away a number of players. I think it may take one player and our draft picks to move up, I just put up the list as potential players who I can see would be considered, by no means trading away 3 or 4 players.

    I agree with you on Brad Jones and Quin, they are keepers. There are only 53 roster spots, I guess if you want a deep draft, what players are you willing to cut for another rookie who has potential and drafted in the 3rd round and below. I undrstand that good players are taken in these rounds, but next year we have a young team that is fairly deep already, we need elite talent to take us to the next level.

    I put Crosby and Bush on there as joke, I guess a bad one. The Jones I was unclear on and refering to was the reciever James Jones, again just ideas to get get anther or higher first round pick.

    Say James Jones and 3rd and 5th for moving up to get Iupati or getting CJ Spiller. I don't know what it would take, just an example.
     
  7. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
    Oh, I see.

    I just think the players I listed have close to zero chance of being traded.

    As for roster spot, there's allways the Bells, Poppingas, Giacominis, and such to be traded before young players that actually have potential.
     
  8. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    711
    Ratings:
    +15
    Anyone think TT will trade up into the 1st for Brandon Graham? I think it could happen. Graham has looked like a beast on tape, he is a little small for a OLB, but is compared to Lamar Woodley which can only be a good thing.
     
  9. AllouezPackerFan

    AllouezPackerFan Section 121 Row 47

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,609
    Ratings:
    +339
    Totally agree. Quinn Johnson is our starter at fullback next year....no doubt. From what I saw out of Brad Jones last year looked very promising. I think he has a chance to play quite a bit this upcoming season. I will GUARANTEE that Jordy Nelson and Brandon Jackson will both be Packers next season. Both proved their value this season and trading them would be a bad bad bad move. Hawk and Lee are viable trade options. I think trading depth on offense to move up in the draft doesn't make sense for our team at this point.
     
  10. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
    No. I think he's highly ranked by TT, but I don't possibily see it, given the players we might get at 23, the needs in the OL, and the good pool in the second and third rounds.

    One player that I'd love to get is A.J. Edds in the 3rd or 4th round. I think if he can add a few pounds without losing his athleticism, he's just what the doctor ordered for the other ILB spot besides Barnett.

    -

    I do think, if after we pick, Graham is still there, TT will trade his mother to get him.
     
  11. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +4
    But this year we had to let some good players go because of limited space, R. Martin and Sutton. Now a year removed we are deeper and may be more of a problem. I don't think for the Packers to get any younger is a good thing, thats where Poppingas at this point of their career has value.

    Do we need 3 or 4 high rookie draft picks or

    do we get 7 or more rookies taken from all the rounds

    Because of the Langs/Brad Jones/ Quin Johnsons we have a good depth and the number of players are not as important as it has been in the past, but 3 or 4 really good players at key positions really improves this team.

    I view this team with good young solid talent which the 3rd round and below brings you. We have that already, I guess to drafted another Barbre for the same reasons we draft Brabre in the first place leaves you with a hard decision in camp, which Barbre player do you cut and are you gaining anything.

    I am assuming here that upper round draft picks are the better talent and that the later rounds are hit or miss, but yes you can get a Tom Brady in the 7th round.
     
  12. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
    Not only that, you're assuming that Lang, Jones and Johnson won't develop into studs, and that's where I think it's the flaw in your argument.

    The way I see, in the majority of the cases, the difference between the early rounders and the late rounders is readyness, and not potential.

    Unless you see some gem, there's no reason to move up in the draft if you can find players almost as good as the ones you're picking.

    That's why I don't like Bulaga. He's one of the most ready prospects, but I don't see him as anything more than ordinary. He'd be a nice addition to our OL, no doubt, but I think you can find players like him that aren't ready yet in the later rounds.

    -

    Just to close it up, I completely know what you're saying that we're one or two PLAYMAKERS away from being contenders.

    I just don't think that, in this draft, moving up will be the solution, and don't think TT will make a move to the place where we can get that solution.

    But as I've said before, I've got a gut feeling we'll solve a key problem in FA, be it in the running game, in the ST game or in the OL...
     
  13. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    603
    Ratings:
    +4
    I understand your point and you bring up what I am getting at. Early picks are usually more ready to play from day one, example Quin Johnson, he is a work in progress and really did not help the Pack all that much compared to Mathews or Raji. Not to say a year or two from now he will be an excellent player.

    I guess this year because of our depth and youth I vote to go after those gems and players that are NFL ready.

    I guess it comes down to where you think the Packers are right now, can we make a legit run next year or do we need another year of development.

    All this is mute point, depending on what we do in trades/free agency

    I guess I am debating with a time frame in my head, 1 to 3 years from now we lose DD and Woodson to age and emerging stars contracts become an issue. Todays strenghts becomes tommorrows problems.

    Thats where I think quality/readness > quanity/potential for the Packers this offseason. This is coming from a guy who likes the value and potential of the late round picks. For the most part I agree with the way you want to draft, this year I am making an exception to my own rule.
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
    Actually, I like agressiveness. I'm all for moving up and picking players. I'm more reserved in FA and trades, because it can kill you cap room and your locker room chemistry, if not properly planned and executed. Think about it: If a team brings in an expensive free agent, an internal player knows he'll have to compete with him for cap space.

    I just think TT is more conservative and will only make a move that absolutely pleases him. He won't gamble with high chips.
     
  15. AllouezPackerFan

    AllouezPackerFan Section 121 Row 47

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,609
    Ratings:
    +339

    I don't think we necessarily need playmakers right now. Another playmaker at safety to play with Collins....yes. We need a better O-Line. First and foremost, that is what we need. Quinn Johnson is great. The lead blocking he provided for Grant in the last 4-5 games of the season was phenominal. Quinn Johnson will be our starting fullback for the next 5 years.
     
  16. Jess

    Jess Movement!

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,118
    Ratings:
    +473
    I wouldn't mind wheeling and dealing to move up. It worked out fine last year with Clay Matthews.

    If Ted has the cajones to, say, take Jahvid Best with our first pick and then jump back up into round 1 to take a corner (Kyle Wilson) or a lineman, why wouldn't you be all for it?
     
  17. AllouezPackerFan

    AllouezPackerFan Section 121 Row 47

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,609
    Ratings:
    +339

    In theory thats fine. I just don't think we need Jahvid Best.
     
  18. Jess

    Jess Movement!

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,118
    Ratings:
    +473
    I do. I think we need a change of pace back. Ryan Grant doesn't strike fear into the hearts of anybody, nor should he. He hits the hole if it's there, but he makes nobody miss.

    Best would be the playmaker. He'd be like our Darren Sproles.
     
  19. 3irty1

    3irty1 Fear the Dreads!

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    895
    Ratings:
    +115
    Agreed 100%. Grant can run... fast. But once some1 touches his big toe, he falls. In the first half of the season he's comparable to the groundhog on groundhog's day, never know if he's gonna get scared of that yellow line and fall back or not. NEW HB PLEASE!
     
  20. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    711
    Ratings:
    +15
    The thing is, Grant only runs fast when there is a huge hole created by the O-Line. We definitely need a scatback to compliment Grant's more aggressive running style.
     
  21. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
    In PLAYMAKERS read IMPACT PLAYERS.
     
  22. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,582
    Ratings:
    +38
    I don't think we need 7 players. In fact even with three players that play OT, S, CB we can make a run for the SB immediately. The only question is, will those rookies be able to contribute right away just like how Jones, Matthews, and Raji did for us this season.
     
  23. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    5,640
    Ratings:
    +113
    If they were smart they should sign me to a 1 year deal as a holder or special teams coach.

    Ok.......... Ill go sit in the corner someone tell me when I can get out :D
     

Share This Page