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Do we have the pieces to go to a 4-3?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by adambr2, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    With Capers' job security looking grimmer with each passing weak, I can't help but wonder if his firing would bring about a complete overhaul of the defensive scheme.

    With that possibility, if we did bring in a 4-3 coordinator, I'm just curious as to whether people think this could immediately be successful.

    Assume Raji, Pickett, and Neal are all sent packing and Jolly returns at a reasonable salary. Would you have Jolly and Daniels as your DTs? Perhaps Worthy in the mix as well? Boyd?

    What about DE? I wonder if Perry would bulk up a bit and return to where he was more comfortable anyway, and whether or not Datone would fit.

    Then you have OLB, where I am concerned that you limit your best defensive player in Matthews with the switch. Jones and even Lattimore might be candidates for the other outside spot. Would it be best to seek a ILB in the draft that can move better in space and cut ties with Hawk entirely?

    Neither system will work without adequate safety play which clearly needs an upgrade. I realize this is fairly drastic but the switch to 3-4 was done overnight as well and it would be fair to say the current system is in a state of massive failure. I only bring it up because I think its fair to assume that if they cut ties with Capers, MM will need to decide whether to simply tweak the current system with a Capers' understudy or move in a different direction entirely.
     
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  2. P-E-Z

    P-E-Z Cheesehead

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    I think we could do 4-3 .... but to switch mid season would very hard. You need off season to plan it.
     
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  3. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Yeah I agree, I'm not talking about doing it next week. For next season.
     
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  4. melvin dangerr

    melvin dangerr Cheesehead

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    Pretty soon we will be at that point where it will not matter what schemes we do, what moves we make,and to put a major fire under the O'lines rears, sit the punter and make every down a play……..if we have a losing season there is nothing else to lose but the game….
     
  5. Zartan

    Zartan Cheesehead

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    Probably not. I'd look for another DC that does the 3-4 first.
     
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  6. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Much as I despise the 3-4, or at least THIS rubber band 3-4, Zartan makes the good point. Our defensive personnel supposedly is geared toward a 3-4, however, the end result is supposed to be superior athletes at LB ... and big, line controlling DL ... none of that is happening, so does it matter if we run a 3-4 or a 4-3 right now? With the personnel we have? It might....
     
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  7. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I think this is a great point, thread.

    I'd like to add more DL to the scene.
    Look at the Lions yesterday. Most of their pressures, sacks on us, came on 4-man rushes. Their 4 guys were bigger and faster and stronger.
    When we blitz a 240 pound linebacker, or 205 pound DB, they're getting neutralized.

    I think Matthews would still be a great football player as an OLB if he was in a 4-3. You surely could still blitz him, move him around.

    I'd like to see 4 DL on the field more often, among:
    Datone Jones, Ryan Pickett, BJ Raji, CJ Wilson, Mike Neal, Nick Perry.
    I think Neal and Perry can play the DE position like Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney have in Indy.
    At DT, you rotate the big beef guys, Josh Boyd there as well.

    The biggest change this defense needs is at the safety position.
    They are horrible, and I think the results speak for themselves and are proof that a lot of YOU were correct about it being a mistake not to have kept Charles Woodson back there.... he didn't get big $ in Oakland. We have plenty of cap space and should have kept him.

    We need to add some muscle back there though.
    I always thought LaRon Landry would have been the perfect FA addition.
    He was a top-5 draft pick because he was a stud. A big strong fast mean one.
    I'd have rather spent money on him than wasted draft picks on Jerron McMillian or giving big faith money to Morgan Burnett this off-season. What's he proven?
     
  8. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Yes we do. You can have Matthews, Hawk, and Lattimore as the backers and you can put Jolly and Daniels, at DT and experiment with Nick Perry and Dhaytone Jones/Mike Neal as D-ends as these guy's were d-ends in college so the adjustment won't be hard for them. Perry and Neal would both be good options for a wide nine technique as both have quickness and power if only they stay healthy. I definitely see the personel for a 4-3 already on the roster. We need to call Lovie Smith.
     
  9. bear7625

    bear7625 Cheesehead

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    We stunk on offence, defence, and special teams. We have a running back coaching receivers, an o-line coach who was one of the worst lineman ever, and a D-coordinator who sits up in the booth with a blank look on his face and a head coach calling plays that don't fool anyone. Even Rodgers cant fix that.
     
  10. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Agree 100% with everything you just said. The comment about the safety especially..Morgan Burnett is not in the mold of a Ed Reed and needs another playmaker back there as he doesn'tshow the ability to be an impact player by himself.
     
  11. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Yup. MM should have given up play calling Duties a long time ago. I'm Starting to think he just likes having the title now and is to stubborn to admit that what he's calling isn't working or fooling anyone.
     
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  12. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    How will our DL look next season?
    Pickett, Raji, Jolly, Neal and Wilson are all free agents after the season.
     
  13. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    re-sign Jolly, goodbye to the rest of the group. Worthy should be back 100%, Daniels has improved tremendously, Josh boyd and Datone Jones should have more experience, and "build through the draft" for depth because i don't see TT bringing in anybody helpful. Altho guy's like Henry Melton, Sean Rogers, Jay Ratliff, and Kevin Williams will probably all hit the market. Henry Melton or Kevin Williams would definitely boost the d-line play but it won't happen.
     
  14. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I agree. Fans get on Jolly because he's out of shape, but the guy gives 100% every play he's out there. Daniels is a keeper for sure, and Datone Jones and Jerome Worthy will have a season under their belts. Goodbye Raji, goodbye Pickett (you've been good). Neal I just don't know....can he make the transition to OLB or not?
     
  15. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    The tape says no...couldn't cover a bed if you asked him to put a blanket on it. Strong as an OX but to stiff in the hips to play olb in this league.
     
  16. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I don't think a change in scheme is going to help our tackling or our secondary from getting burned. I have no desire to limit the effectiveness of our best defensive player.
     
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  17. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    This thread is ridiculous. You don't alter your defense to accommodate average players. The only All-Pro player on defense, Clay Matthews, is a 3-4 OLB. Matthews is at his best when rushing the passer from different formations. Making Matthews a 4-3 OLB makes the defense's best player irrelevant.

    Switching to a 4-3 won't make the team tackle better. Switching to a 4-3 defense won't make Tramon Williams cover better. Switching to a 4-3 defense won't make MD Jennings or Jerod McMillian better at safety.

    Before demanding an entire system change, please remember who the Packers best defensive player is. HOW IS THE SWITCH WORKING FOR DALLAS? Cowboys switched to a 4-3 defense this year and have the worst defense in franchise history.
     
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  18. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    That's a good point as well however sometimes teams just have to make changes. The bills signed Mario Wialliams who thrived in the 3-4 but made the switch to 4-3. The Patriots played a 3-4 and knew it was time to switch and they had a roster suited for a 3-4, the Dolphins did it and they have Cameron Wake who is still a beast even in the 4-3, heck i watched the Jets game and they played a ton of 4-3 because it suited the strengths of their last two 1st round picks in couples and wilkerson so yes it is possible for Matthews to thrive in a 4-3.
     
  19. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    don't forget to mention Ware has been hurt so don't leave that out...also how well did the Packers do after they made they switch to the 3-4?? they didn't come out the next year and all of a sudden become a top defense. It toook some time. Ware will be fine and so would Matthews.
     
  20. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    Our players need to learn how to tackle first.

    But our only good defensive player is Matthews, why would we want to handicap him?
     
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  21. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    So what you're saying is that if the Packers switched to a 4-3 they would win the Super Bowl next year?

    The Packers switch to a 3-4 was easier since the defense was devoid of any play makers. The Packers drafted Raji and Matthews that year, but didn't have to replace any good players. Also don't forget Cullen Jenkins was a MUCH better 3-4 DE than 4-3 DT or DE.

    What makes you so confident Matthews will be fine in a 3-4?
     
  22. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Thank you! That's my point. Why switch the defense to accommodate average players like Perry and Neal.
     
  23. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    No i'm not... and probably because he already plays in a 3-4?? haha i know what you meant..anyways Matthews is a good enough player to make thing's happen.he deosn't need a scheme to dictate what type of player he is. He's got power, quickness, and a motor. That's enough all in itself.
     
  24. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    1) The Texans played a 4-3 defense forever. The switch to the 3-4 (drafting of JJ Watt and Brooks Reed) is what forced Mario Williams out of town. Williams struggled in the 3-4 in 2011 and went on IR in both 2010 and 2011.

    2) The Patriots play a hybrid 3-4/4-3.
     
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  25. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Ok what about the Browns..they made the switch last year and now they are the #3 defense....and Williams? money and injuries forced him out of town not his play. He had 10.5 sacks last season and has 11 this year all while wait for it...playing in the 4-3. Hmm??
     

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