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DJ Smith > AJ Hawk ?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by bozz_2006, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Just read this great little article linked from PFT that shows DJ Smith's up-side makes it hard to justify starting Hawk another year. I'd say, given his salary, it's time to cut Hawk outright. Smith looked the part last season, playing with a decisive intensity that we haven't seen from Hawk since his Ohio State days. What do you say, is DJ Smith finally the guy that convinces Ted to cut the overpaid-underperforming Hawk? I think so. Check out the article, it's a quick read and very informative.
     
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  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Was just going to post this. Great article. And you would find a bigger support of benching or cutting Aj hawk than me.
     
  3. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Nice find. Except for the tiny error of saying Hawk was the #4 pick in the draft (he was #5), that's a very good breakdown of the Packers' ILB position. After moving Jones and Lattimore and drafting Manning to add to Hawk, Bishop, Smith and Francois (I haven't heard/read if they're moving him outside) the Packers are deep at ILB and IMO can certainly afford to trade or release Hawk.

    Here's an article from the other point of view. http://espnmilwaukee.com/corp/page/06/04/12_Hawk_looking_for_more_tangible_impact/670?feed=2

    It begins with the words, "Stats aren't everything." They better not be if you are AJ Hawk. But the Packers coaching staff from McCarthy to Capers to Winston Moss have a higher opinion of Hawk than the vast majority of Packers fans and the evidence of that was Thompson's front office signing him to the deal he got last year. Here's Moss' quote:
    I don't doubt Hawk has all those intangibles but IMO at some point they have to go with the guy with better production.
     
  4. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I just keep thinking about the guys we have nearing the end of their contracts. If we end up having to part ways with Greg Jennings or Josh Sitton because of Hawk and his bloated contract, I'll be one very unhappy Packer camper. If you can get similar production from DJ, who is cheap and has potential, I don't see how you can afford to keep Hawk on the roster.
     
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  5. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    please get the hell rid of hawk
     
  6. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    You don't cut Hawk. If TT wants to go another direction, he's tradeable. We could easily get a 3rd round pick for him.
     
  7. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    Someone is willing to pay him $4 million + AND give up a 3rd round pick? If that's the case, the trigger should be pulled IMMEDIATELY. Unfortunately, I can't possibly imagine that being the case. That would be amazing. Getting rid of a big salary for a guy that's potentially been outplayed by a 6th round draft pick. It would be a steal. I certainly wouldn't give up much of anything for Hawk, if I was a GM.
     
  8. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Guys get their contracts restructured in trades all the time. No reason it can't be done with Hawk. And yes, there are some teams that lack leadership on defense who would trade a 3rd for him. I wouldn't take anything less than a high 4th.
     
  9. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I still think he is a great fit for the Browns. He provides them with a leader, starter and a MARKETABLE LOCAL GUY.
     
  10. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    I'll take your word for it. But as of now, I'd believe it when I see it. He doesn't hold anywhere near that value to me. Even if he restructured, I couldn't imagine it being much less than 3-4 million, especially with a 3rd round grade. If you are correct, however, and Ted doesn't pull the trigger, I'd be pretty disappointed. I'm not convinced that DJ Smith is better than Hawk at this point, but the difference isn't huge (and perhaps he will be as good or better late in the season). Getting that kind of return on a player that also provided several years of serviceable play would be a great advantage and could really help the team down the road.

    If I had to predict what would happen, though, I would say Hawk continues to start for most of this upcoming season (as always, pending injuries). Beyond that, he will be likely to be released in 2013, as his salary becomes even higher. It would give him more freedom to choose his next team and I'm not sure what incentive he would have to restructure his contract unless the team the Packer's were trading him to was somewhere he really wanted to go.

    Here's some contract information I found on him (hopefully it's correct. Go to link for a better view. Table didn't paste very well):

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/a.j.-hawk/


    CURRENT SALARY INFORMATION
    • Contract:
    • 5 yr(s) / $33,750,000
    • Signing Bonus
    • $8,000,000
    • Average Salary
    • $6,750,000
    • End Year:
    • 2015
    • Free Agent:
    • 2016 / Unrestricted
    BASE SALARY
    S. BONUS
    MISC. BONUS
    CAP HIT
    2011
    1,150,000
    1,600,000
    1,800,000
    4,550,000
    2012
    4,400,000
    1,600,000
    550,000
    6,550,000
    2013
    4,900,000
    1,600,000
    550,000
    7,050,000
    2014
    4,900,000
    1,600,000
    1,050,000
    7,550,000
    2015
    5,400,000
    1,600,000
    1,050,000
    8,050,000
    2016
    UFA
    • Signing Bonus: $8 million
    • Workout Bonus: $250,000
    • Roster Bonus (2011): $1.8 million
    • Roster Bonus (2012-2013): $300,000
    • Roster Bonus: (2014-2015): $800,000
     
  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Everyone always thinks their players are worth alot more than they are.

    Aj hawk a 3rd or 4th rounder? Isn't that what Brandon Marshall went for? Or a back up QB? Not a back up linebacker who is overpaid.
     
  12. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    "...[Smith] was decisive and powerful in his run defense, knifing through the line to meet runners head-on with violent collisions that resulted in losses or short gains. It was a startling sight for Packers fans who had grown accustom to Hawk’s “grab and drag” tackling."

    Or worse, how about Hawk's "let me occupy this single blocker while my teammates go and make the tackle"?
     
  13. Bagadeez04

    Bagadeez04 Cheesehead

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    No way we'd get a third for Hawk...just no way. We should move on. Like someone mentioned, that salary cap space could much better be spent on someone who actually produces.

    Hawk has had more than enough time to prove himself. He has proved to be average at best. I will never cease to be amazed at the contract we gave to him...while letting Jenkins walk.
     
  14. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    I was always a big Hawk fan. Loved the pick. Thought he would be a Nitschke for a new generation. I held out hope to this last season but he just doesn't get the big play. He is okay, but that's it. What sucks is he has amazing physical skills and all the attitude necessary. He is (or at least was) a better athlete than Clay Matthews coming out of college, for goodness sakes! Why it hasn't clicked for him on the field in a bigger way, I have no idea.

    I doubt he is worth a 4th to another team, but he is worth that to the Packers. If we do trade him, I think it would be a 6th or 7th. For whatever reason, players don't get what you think they would in a trade - except for QBs.
     
  15. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Here's the thing. There's something called intangibles. When Barnett got hurt in 2010, Hawk took over the signal calling on defense. When that happened, the defense improved noticeably. Regardless of whether one values statistics over intangibles or not, he has a very high football IQ and he's a leader on our defense, which showed in 2010. Last year the problem on defense was our pass rush, which I'm confident has been fixed. Another area in which he excels is in pass coverage, which is something Smith is going to have to improve upon if he wants Hawk's spot. There's a lot more to being a linebacker than just tackling running backs.

    What it all boils down to is this: Capers and Moss told Ted that they wanted him back. They never would have done so without good cause. There's more to every single player than a stat line. TT wouldn't have paid him just for the heck of it.
     
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  16. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    We'd probably get an expired bag of Fritos for Hawk. I like D. J. but wonder if he has the heft to play inside?
     
  17. 60six

    60six DIE HARD

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    Hawk excels at pass coverage, thats a joke right ?

    AJ is one of the weak links on this D, even with his so called football mind.
     
  18. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Well then perhaps you should email Dom Capers and make him aware of the situation :rolleyes:
     
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  19. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I think he knows.
     
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  20. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    I don't think Hawk is as bad as some make him out to be, but he's definitely not very good, either. He is what he is: an average MLB that makes little to no game-changing plays. The Packer's could definitely do a lot better, but they could also do worse. I'm still holding out hope that Manning develops into a solid starter because I don't think DJ Smith will be much more than average either (although perhaps a better average than Hawk).
     
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  21. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    And way freakn cheaper.
     
  22. wizard 87

    wizard 87 Packer Addict

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    Yeah let's blame our MLB when the OL is in the second level of the defense....play after play ! How the hell can you make a play in a 3-4 scheme when all last year are DL did absolutely nothing ????( there job is to tie up blockers so the LB can make plays)
    Did all you happen to remember who came in and took the D over in the SB run year and BOOM instant change ?? hmmm ? The whole anti-Hawk thing is complete crap and DJ Smith is going to replace a hand picked #1 of TT :roflmao: ..... sure that's going to happen soon.
     
  23. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Who came in and took the D over in the Super Bowl run? Uhhhh.... that would be Woodson, Williams, Collins, Bishop, Matthews, Raji, and Jenkins.
     
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  24. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    I'm pretty sure we're stuck with Hawk one way or the other for this season. Based on the bonus we've paid him and the cap hit we'd take cutting him this year, he's stays.

    Next year, his cap number isn't as high and we'll know more about Manning and Smith. If they are good enough to replace him, next year at the earliest.
     
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  25. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    Hawk has rarely been anything more than average (except for maybe his rookie season and his contract year), even with a good defensive line. Sure, he has played better at times than others, but still not much better than average. The sample size in which to judge Hawk by is not limited anymore. He has thoroughly proven that he is an average MLB that makes few to no impact plays. Yeah, a team can win with him in the starting lineup, but I think that has more to do with having play makers around him than Hawk himself. As I said, a team could have a worse MLB, but they definitely could have a much better one, also.
     

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