Did James Jones and Jermichael Finley Go Unappreciated By Us Fans?

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Plus let's not forget Keith Jackson. That guy knew how to create some real mismatches back there on defenses as well.

I am thinking in agreement with ivo that most of what this is is young WRs simply not having their routes down to a T, or maybe are unsure how to run them altogether, similar to what we were seeing with Tom Brady and his young guys last year that he would often vent out at, especially in the games Edelman and Gronk didn't play in.

But I also fear that Rodgers really wants Nelson to be a bit too much of a go-to guy and that may be hurting our O a bit too much. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, Mike McCarthy in the past had always seemed to say that there really was no go-to guy in this offense. Obviously Jennings and Driver were the number 1s and 2s, but there was never any lock on them. Nelson, Jones, and Cobb always were getting the ball spread around to them. Rodgers did use Finley as a blanket sometimes, but never over much so I didn't think. Lately, I don't feel Rodgers wants to spread the ball around as much. I may be wrong, and I don't think Boykin and company are beating their defenders as much as they should, but they certainly can't be blanketed down with no space every play. I'm just wondering if Rodgers simply doesn't want to throw that ball to them sometimes and wants all his big plays to be with Jordy. Hopefully not, but one never knows.

 

[ivo610]

Finley wasn't overhyped. He was inconsistent, largely due to an unfortunate run of injuries. His 2011 season was overall the most productive of any TE in Packer history.

Packer fans talked him up like he was a superstar and he never did anything to back that up

 

[GoPGo]

Debatable.
JerMichael Finley 2011 Stats: 767 yards and 8 TD's.
Paul Coffman 1983 Stats: 814 yards and 11 TD's.

There were other guys who were close, like Mark Chmura, depending on if you include blocking and who you think the better blocker is. Finley was a pretty terrible blocker.

Shoot... I meant to put "arguably" in there somewhere, but you got the picture.

 

[TJV]

The problem with rookie WRs is usually reading the coverage after the snap - the QB and the receiver have to read the coverage the same way. Defenses obviously try to disguise the coverage. It takes time for rookies to pick up on the nuances of NFL coverage schemes. Even so, as I posted elsewhere, if the receivers continue to struggle getting open, I think Janis should be activated and his assignment simplified - either tell him to run a certain route no matter what on a particular play or give him the option of two routes depending upon what the DB does. His speed could stretch defenses enough to loosen up coverage for others.

 

[Ogsponge]

Packer fans talked him up like he was a superstar and he never did anything to back that up

And you are living proof of him being unappreciated by fans. You are completely ignoring the fact that he was a piece of the puzzle that made this offense great. The mismatches he created along with Nelson and Jones and eventually Cobb can not but ignored except for people like you that ignore what a player brings to the table because they did not live up to your idea of production.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not sitting here saying Finley was this awesome player, but to not understand that he brought an element to this offense that is sorely missed was what the OP was about.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

And you are living proof of him being unappreciated by fans. You are completely ignoring the fact that he was a piece of the puzzle that made this offense great. The mismatches he created along with Nelson and Jones and eventually Cobb can not but ignored except for people like you that ignore what a player brings to the table because they did not live up to your idea of production.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not sitting here saying Finley was this awesome player, but to not understand that he brought an element to this offense that is sorely missed was what the OP was about.

Fair point. Findley was annoying at times, and went through a period were he believed his own hype. Just before the injury though he showed what he was capable of, and a maturity that was lacking. Nobody stepped up to fill the void he left.

 

[ivo610]

And you are living proof of him being unappreciated by fans. You are completely ignoring the fact that he was a piece of the puzzle that made this offense great. The mismatches he created along with Nelson and Jones and eventually Cobb can not but ignored except for people like you that ignore what a player brings to the table because they did not live up to your idea of production.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not sitting here saying Finley was this awesome player, but to not understand that he brought an element to this offense that is sorely missed was what the OP was about.

Just like Finley and his fans all you do it talk about how great he was but when it comes down to it we were actually a better offense after in he got hurt in 2010. He never had any great years by modern TE standards, and never made a pro bowl. He was an ok TE who never put it all together but some fans like you couldnt get over the hype.

 

[Ogsponge]

Just like Finley and his fans all you do it talk about how great he was but when it comes down to it we were actually a better offense after in he got hurt in 2010. He never had any great years by modern TE standards, and never made a pro bowl. He was an ok TE who never put it all together but some fans like you couldnt get over the hype.

lol, and in your blinding dislike of Finley, you complete ignored what I said. But hey, keeping living in your delusional fantasy land where what a person says only means what you think it means.

I challenge you to point out anywhere in my post where I talked about how great he was. Please, please, please show me where in my post I said how great he is. In fact I triple dog dare you to show me in my post where I said that.

Actually don't waste your time because you can't. Learn to read.

 

[OCBP]

The problem with rookie WRs is usually reading the coverage after the snap - the QB and the receiver have to read the coverage the same way. Defenses obviously try to disguise the coverage. It takes time for rookies to pick up on the nuances of NFL coverage schemes. Even so, as I posted elsewhere, if the receivers continue to struggle getting open, I think Janis should be activated and his assignment simplified - either tell him to run a certain route no matter what on a particular play or give him the option of two routes depending upon what the DB does. His speed could stretch defenses enough to loosen up coverage for others.

Boykin is not a rookie and has played poorly. He was supposed to be the man and a reason why Jones was let go for a measly price tag.

TT just loves to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Boykin is not a rookie and has played poorly. He was supposed to be the man and a reason why Jones was let go for a measly price tag.

TT just loves to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL.

I was fine with the Packers letting Jones walk this offseason as Boykin showed last year that he's capable of being a decent #3 WR (49 catches for 681 yards). Unfortunately he hasn't proved that so far this year.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

I was fine with the Packers letting Jones walk this offseason as Boykin showed last year that he's capable of being a decent #3 WR (49 catches for 681 yards). Unfortunately he hasn't proved that so far this year.

I take, and agree with you on most of this, but Rodgers under and overthrowing isn`t helping matters either.

 

[TJV]

Boykin is not a rookie and has played poorly. He was supposed to be the man and a reason why Jones was let go for a measly price tag.

Yes, Boykin isn't a rookie - I doubt he's having trouble reading the D, which was a point I made regarding rookies. IMO Boykin is having trouble getting separation and catching the ball.

 

[ivo610]

lol, and in your blinding dislike of Finley, you complete ignored what I said. But hey, keeping living in your delusional fantasy land where what a person says only means what you think it means.

I challenge you to point out anywhere in my post where I talked about how great he was. Please, please, please show me where in my post I said how great he is. In fact I triple dog dare you to show me in my post where I said that.

Actually don't waste your time because you can't. Learn to read.

Funny, your troll like reply to start a random fight was misguided in that I never said he wasn't part of the puzzle. I merely said he was overrated, you're clearly too ignorant to understand any of that though

 

[OCBP]

Yes, Boykin isn't a rookie - I doubt he's having trouble reading the D, which was a point I made regarding rookies. IMO Boykin is having trouble getting separation and catching the ball.

Why not keep Jones?

 

[brandon2348]

Finley had finally developed into what everyone wanted him to be "on the field" before he got hurt last year. He was a dominant part of the offense and was big time in the red zone. Jones has lost a step and was already a possession type receiver. It was time to move on from JJ.

 

[OCBP]

Really

Finley had finally developed into what everyone wanted him to be "on the field" before he got hurt last year. He was a dominant part of the offense and was big time in the red zone. Jones has lost a step and was already a possession type receiver. It was time to move on from JJ.

Really? Jones has caught 15 balls for 189 yards and 2 TD's. If he's lost a step, Biykin is just plain lost.

 

[brandon2348]

Really

Really? Jones has caught 15 balls for 189 yards and 2 TD's. If he's lost a step, Biykin is just plain lost.

Not having James Jones isn't our problem. It would be nice to have Finley though.

 

[Packerlover]

I think Rodgers misses those two. Guys he's thrown to for a few years now and now they are gone. no wonder he seems inconstant and not himself

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

And you are living proof of him being unappreciated by fans. You are completely ignoring the fact that he was a piece of the puzzle that made this offense great. The mismatches he created along with Nelson and Jones and eventually Cobb can not but ignored except for people like you that ignore what a player brings to the table because they did not live up to your idea of production.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not sitting here saying Finley was this awesome player, but to not understand that he brought an element to this offense that is sorely missed was what the OP was about.

Yup, he may not have been quite a reincarnation of Shannon Sharpe, but when he did catch that ball, some pretty good things happened for us. We definitely are missing the element of the game he brought.

 

[paulska]

I think we miss what Finley meant to our offense- he was a talent other teams had to mark on the field, and he was versatile enough that he wasn't strictly an inline blocker or H back type. One of the reasons Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb are so good is that they line up all along the line of scrimmage, not in one spot exclusively, which helps them find advantageous matchups. Finlay brought that too- that meant three guys who could be anywhere and do anything. Now we only have two "unknown" quantities pre-snap. With more "controlled variables" right now, I don't think teams are as off balance.

I tend to agree with people who see the real loss in JJ being the chemistry and trust developed with ARod. It's not that it won't come with Adams or Boykin or one of the other kids. If anything, I think Adams has tremendous upside the way Jordy had it and grew into it- he's just not polished and delivering on it the way JJ did for us yet. I really feel like we're in a growing pains stage at this point- I think one of the real marks of greatness for ARod is going to be whether or not he can marshall a group with lots of young, unknown or developing properties and help them find excellence.

To me, the Detroit game showed that this is a real challenge for him- the game isn't flowing like it once did, and there will be a struggle before he hits that flow once again with a retooled group.

I guess the question that can only be answered with time is whether or not TT made the right decision forsaking some chemistry at t higher price tag for the opportunity to develop guys who can play at or better the level we got from those two guys. Time will tell- in the mean time, the waiting hasn't been that fun to date.

 

[Packerlover]

I think we miss what Finley meant to our offense- he was a talent other teams had to mark on the field, and he was versatile enough that he wasn't strictly an inline blocker or H back type. One of the reasons Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb are so good is that they line up all along the line of scrimmage, not in one spot exclusively, which helps them find advantageous matchups. Finlay brought that too- that meant three guys who could be anywhere and do anything. Now we only have two "unknown" quantities pre-snap. With more "controlled variables" right now, I don't think teams are as off balance.

I tend to agree with people who see the real loss in JJ being the chemistry and trust developed with ARod. It's not that it won't come with Adams or Boykin or one of the other kids. If anything, I think Adams has tremendous upside the way Jordy had it and grew into it- he's just not polished and delivering on it the way JJ did for us yet. I really feel like we're in a growing pains stage at this point- I think one of the real marks of greatness for ARod is going to be whether or not he can marshall a group with lots of young, unknown or developing properties and help them find excellence.

To me, the Detroit game showed that this is a real challenge for him- the game isn't flowing like it once did, and there will be a struggle before he hits that flow once again with a retooled group.

I guess the question that can only be answered with time is whether or not TT made the right decision forsaking some chemistry at t higher price tag for the opportunity to develop guys who can play at or better the level we got from those two guys. Time will tell- in the mean time, the waiting hasn't been that fun to date.

I like the way you worded this..

 

[TJV]

Why not keep Jones?

I didn't address that because that decision has already been made. But IMO the reasons for it were: Nelson and Cobb are great and Boykin did very well in 2013 and was ascending. Thompson excels at drafting WRs so he would add one or two in the draft and they would gain experience as the top 3 handled things this season. Obviously that hasn't turn into reality after three games. Nelson is the only one of the three keeping the promise of those expectations. IMO Cobb has been inconsistent and Boykin seems to have regressed.

 

[longtimefan]

I think assessing Jones after the season should be done...After 3 games, eh..I dont think it is a big enough of a sample

 

[El Guapo]

If Cobb was playing at the elite level that you prognosticated in other threads, the "gamble" would have paid off.

 

[thequick12]

No I think everybody knew Jmike was a top 5 tight end in the league. The second he is cleared we can only hope he rejoins the packers. And james jones was only undervalued by TT at 3 million per year he was a steal and the raiders are benefitting from that. He is putting up better numbers than all of the packers WR not named jordy. And he is doing that while playing for the raiders. If we still had jj as our number 3 don't think we would be missing finley as much and vice versa if we had finley we wouldn't be missing jones as much. But the combined loss has really hurt the offense thus far. I think adams is gonna be a very good WR but it's gonna take a few more weeks for him to find himself expect a big game out of him in the next few weeks. And I really like janis too I wish they could find a way to have him active. I think he is our best return man other than cobb and he could add a speed pure speed dimension to the offense that is clearly missing.