Diagnosing the Roster Needs

Sunshinepacker

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However with the tendering of Lazard and still having Cobb on the roster you actually have more starting snaps and years there than you do with Yosh at RT. I get what you're saying but actually in experience at starting we have more at WR than OL so long as Jenkins is out, if Jenkins wasn't hurt I would slide OL down to about the spot of a 4 area as it would share many similarities with TE and Safety from a what we have and what we will have in the future stance.

At some point the packers are going to need to look to the future and start to actually look for a guy that can someday replace or help Adams. Great defenses can scheme against only one good receiver, would be swell if the packers had another.
 
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Don’t have much disagreement really all depends how the picks fall and intersect with needs.
I know that OL sounds uninspiring to some fans in the draft. However I see a 2-headed Offensive monster developing (Run+Pass) I believe we’ve got one of the most formidable 1-2-3 punches at RB talent wise and we’re underutilizing that aspect some (partly due to injury) My hypothesis is we would expect our OL to congeal more this season. Yet we invested a massive -% at QB and we MUST keep #12 clean
OL may be a secondary need in many seasons like this, but I’d key around Rounds 1-2 this season. The secondary benefit to that is watch our Run game take a significant jump in production if we hit OL early. We also would have adequate depth there and overlapping contracts which is a tertiary advantage.

We could very easily get back into a top 5 Scoring Offense if we hit at OL and find 1 more receiving weapon either early in the draft or a FA.
If the Defense gets back into a top 10-12 range again and our ST improves markedly, watch out.

For me ideally we’d look something like this (Obviously needs change as players/positions sign)
Round 1 OL
Round 2 DT/Edge
Round 3 Edge/DT
Round 4 CB
Round 4 WR/TE (comp)
Round 5 TE/WR
Round 6 Safety
Round 7 ST
Round 7 ST (comp)
 
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milani

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Let's dissect and tear into something which folks argue over how much weight "it" should be given when picking a prospect each year at the NFL draft. That thing is need. Regardless of how much weight or advocate of a Best Player Available (BPA) approach to the draft you are; need is a real thing and where holes exist in a roster a GM has to have a plan (even if it is a poor one) to fill them.

Actively right now one way to tackle this is let's push aside for drafting purposes the three special team's positions; kicker is the only position I advocate at times for a late round pick - however we presently have three kickers in Crosby, Molson and now Eberle (each with their attractive qualities). Our 2022 kicker is on our roster. Punter is vacant but don't draft a punter...and LS we have Wirtel signed so no doubt he will start 2022 with every chance of that being his role.

(FTR Offensive Line is broken down last by positions...)
Now let's push aside any positions that appear to be clearly strong and locked with depth even:

QB & RB are the two positions to me that are clearly the deepest from a starting level player standpoint, but also depth. With two starting caliber backs and then Hill and Taylor behind them - while we could see Gute like a Day 3 guy and pick him, the need aspect wouldn't be there for doing so.

Now for positions that appears we have the starters for, but one could argue need that depth:

CB - Stokes and Jaire appear to provide us with that top two shelf starters...but that CB3, a position that sees a ton of snaps throughout the year even if all is healthy is presently in the hands of either SJC or Ento; doesn't exactly instill confidence for most. *CB3 is a need for sure

OLB/EDGE - Preston extension and Gary's presence opposite of him make this position a lot like CB, no starting spot is needed filled but routinely that 3rd guy sees anywhere from 300-400 snaps at least. Garvin has been progressing and Rivers showed a lot, but many would circle this as a need if making a list of need for sure. *Arguably OLB/EDGE is a need

ILB - The Campbell signing and Barnes being a cheap signing being a ERFA makes ILB top shelf VERY secure. Barnes has been becoming a SOLID off ball linebacker for us and he pairs beautifully with Campbell; we may only have Barnes for one more year if he keeps playing well, but for now I'll embrace it for sure. The one thing is Ty Summers' contract is up after the 2022 season, essentially leaving us with just Isaiah McDuffie as the other person here for the future which makes me say...*lower need, but ILB depth/future is need of sorts

S - Amos and Savage are locks, Savage is going to be looking to bounce back after lessor year last season than prior but still shows immense signs of a very good S for his future. Depth isn't scary bad with Vernon Scott and Gaines both on contract and Henry Black most likely back...BUT none of the depth guys has shown a sign of being a future starter IMO...Safety is a need seeing as Amos is nearing his contract and as well is Savage possibly gone if we don't exercise his 5th year option (deadline to do so is May 2...after the draft). Savage's hit would become little over $7M if 5th year optioned (estimated) and Amos off the books would cover this cost and then some. *So Safety IMO is a need, with Gute and Co. most likely knowing the direction of the future I could see us thinking starter in 2023 and drafting high or drafting mid/late round - but somekind of need is there at depth for sure.

DL/DE - We lost Keke, looks like the Tyler Lancaster experiment is over and who knows what Heflin will give us in his second year (Slaton too for that matter). Lowry played very well for us and Clark is a stud...but arguably we have 2 guys that we know what we're getting. *This is without question a need, and strong enough I could see us double dip even.

Now for positions where we need starters right now...

WR - Yes, Adams is tagged and as I type this like other positions an assumption is being drawn that he will be playing in 2022 for us...so our top shelf starter is arguably best in the league. Opposite of him however is less of a known thing. Cobb is not an outside WR and Lazard does all he does good, but imagine a team where Lazard (who is really a WR3 ceiling type) NOT being asked to be your WR2. MVS is gone...so that 2nd starter outside opposite of Adams is a need for sure...does Winfree blow us away after a promising glimpse (doubtful)...does Lazard make a jump (maybe)...do we sign someone in FA (again to me doubtful...but maybe). *WR2 is a need

TE - This position group is a coin flip argument, and one which you can say has upside presently and be positive or you can just as easily be negative about as well. Lewis is an OL assistance better than nearly ANY TE in the game, he trods along as a receiving option but is usually sure handed at the catch and is savvy at timing releases (just don't depend on him getting more than 5-7 yards LOL). Things were clearly starting to click for Deguara the last part of the season and Dafney continues to show promise when asked more of. Tyler Davis is that deep depth wildcard to me, who has shown chops to be a receiving threat like Tonyan and also has the frame to be a blocker as well. So we have four guys that I'm sure the organization and MLF feel confident about...but we do not have a surefire answer at the second in-line starter behind Lewis or for passing situations to be our in-line TE when Lewis is on the sideline. Tonyan was that...is he resigned cheap due to injury (maybe)...do we dip into cheap FA (maybe)...do we select a Day2/Day3 prospect (maybe). A lot of "maybe" options here, but an all around inline TE can easily be defended as a need


Now let's talk Offensive Line

Overall the OL room has Bakhtiari, Jenkins (Injured), Runyan, Myers, Newman, Yosh (ERFA) all with starting experience - then we have center Menet signed from Cardinals and Cole Van Lanen (2021 6th round draft pick by us). Having 6 guys with starting level play, with 4 of those being YOUNG guys, and the other two being Pro Bowl level types that is good. However, our depth is depleted for sure, especially out the gate and for the majority of regular season as Jenkins recovers from his injury.

Center - Myers is a surefire starter, Menet was a guy many of us liked in his draft class for Day 3 and is a pure center back up type that I feel more confident in growth than Hanson after years of that experiment just not showing much. Center is not a direct need...now a versatile draft pick that has center experience is an attractive thing for sure with Patrick gone and Jenkins hurt (two other backup centers for us in 2021).

OG/OT - I throw these together because it is rare that Gute and Co. has drafted a pure guard in the draft. Typically speaking we like athletic college tackles with measurables (slightly shorter frame and length of arms) that fit moving inside more while still offering tackle experience and ability to move. With the roster presently providing a starting line up of Bakh, Runyan, Myers, Newman, Nijman with Jenkins out - there is zero depth besides Cole Van Lanen behind them. That places this 100% as a position of need and like the other big boy position (DL) could see a double dip even (or FA addition like Dennis Kelly)

Ranking the needs at this moment, with the assumptions that Lazard, Barnes and Yosh are tendered and/or retained in some capacity:

#1a
OT/OG - We need a surefire starter at RT to fill Turner void left. Yosh could very well be it, but like Newman Yosh was serviceable, however if he doesn't take another step we will find our selves wondering how much better could we be with elevated play there. A perfect 2022 world has a Tackle picked in the draft that comes in and beats out Yosh, and Yosh is your swing Tackle back up...or worst case we need a rookie to come in and serve as that without hesitation by our staff, that is a tall task best not laid in a late Day 3 pick.

#1b
DL/DE - Clark and Lowry have nothing confirmed beside them now. Lancaster was a known commodity, albeit a low floor type guy...and Keke is gone. We MUST get a guy added that can and will be able to serve as a depth type guy that as the season progresses can see more and more snaps to rest Clark and Lowry - we cannot expect Slaton alone to make this happen...or place Heflin with lofty expectations IMO.

#2
WR - This cannot be placed above the top due to the high high high WR1 level, Cobb/Lazard/Amari Rodgers all back and the fact we have Aaron "freaking" Rodgers at QB. It is though still a solid need and I argue that we have to get a bonafide prospect/weapon at WR or TE going into the 2022 season for this offense.

#3a
CB3/DB - This role could be a safety with drop down slot or coverage abilities and doesn't have to be a pure CB but could be. We saw in 2021 just how important it is and can be to have a bonafide CB3 on the roster and I look for Gute to not ignore at any round in the draft selecting a DB that in his opinion is by far the BPA, because of how it intersects with need and is a position that is SO CRUCIAL in today's NFL.

#3b
OLB/EDGE - This position and CB are nearly identical in importance in today's NFL, BUT unlike CB we at least have guys on roster behind our top two that have experience and at that even times of production (Garvin and Rivers). Preston is solid now, but between his age and the fact we've seen injuries hit this group before - finding that bonafide future or immediate #3 is something we need.

#4a
TE - For many of the same reasons at WR, but to a lessor degree given the number of guys on the roster and the fact that if we get a WR early I lesson the "desperation" (lack of a better word, it isn't as dire as that makes it seem) to find our next Tonyan (if he resigns...I remove TE almost entirely as need with hesitation due to injury though).

#4b
Safety - This is a guy that most likely projects purely as a safety for the future of what most likely is post-Amos times after 2022.

#5
ILB - Off ball LBs with Campbell and Barnes as starters (Summers and McDuffie as depth) we aren't in dire straights...however as mentioned above getting a future depth replacement for Summers is a good thing and back up LBs can be one of the best place to enhance ST play as well.



Thoughts?
TE stands out to me as a priority. Tonyan may not play if he does until the second half. We could have another Bahktiari situation. Besides, Tight Ends are more than mere short out pass catchers. They are blockers, decoys, and seam routers. The 9ers TE clearly factored in our loss in GB and almost beat us in WK 3 in SF. We must get better here. Someone next to Clark has been my beef for 5 seasons. Campbell has to take too many hits because teams double Clark and he has to come up in the run game. Our run D did much better against SF than it did Cleveland but when it was needed in crunch time the 9ers gashed us. Amari Rogers was a disappointment. Sure he was a rookie. But he was a fish out of water. If he could have shown something to Rodgers in that Cardinal game ARod would have told LaFleur to give him more reps. Our OL did a heck of a job throughout the season with so many injuries but again when they needed them to deliver in the post season they failed. So even with Bahktiari depth is paramount. One area you did not mention and maybe that is because it is a collective position rather than just an individual one is Special Teams. Now usually the ST is made up of a combination of what is part of your entire roster. Still believe we need a better return man and a better long snapper. And those who we choose to block on punts and placekicks cannot just be roster leftovers. They have to cut the mustard.
 

Dantés

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If I'm looking at the roster as it currently stands and making a comprehensive list, it would look like this:

Holes on the Current Depth Chart:

1. Wide Receiver: Even if they bring MVS back, this is obviously a big need.
2. Punt Returner: Need a viable option.

Pressing Need for Rotational Help:

3. Defensive Line: Need viable rotational help and future starter next to Clark.*
4. Edge: Need quality rotational help behind starters; ideally someone with more of a rush linebacker skill set.

Need More Depth:

5. Offensive Line: Need depth either at tackle or the interior depending on plans for Jenkins (plus stop-gap depth while Jenkins recovers).**

Just Add Competition:

6. Punter: Need more competition for the job.
7. Long Snapper: Need more competition for the job.
8. Tight End: Need a starting "F."
9. Cornerback: Need a 3rd CB or at least strong contender to compete with Jean-Charles (plus depth).***
10. Linebacker: More competition for roles on ST units.
11. Safety: More competition for roles on ST units.
12. Running Back: More competition for RB3 job.
13. Quarterback: More competition for QB3 job.

*There are a lot of veterans available who may possibly come cheap (Calais Campbell, Akiem Hicks, Eddie Goldman, Matt Ioannidis, etc.).

**If they plan for Jenkins at guard, they need tackle and vice versa. Would not mind Dennis Kelly back to hold them over until Jenkins is healthy.
 
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Schultz

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In reverse of your order.
If Hill is healthy I am more than happy with the RB room.
S- need more depth
I would move LB up to the need more depth column, maybe even all the way up to the rotational depth column.
Hopefully the punt returner comes from one of the positions above from your chart.
TE- please do not draft one. Plenty of guys out there. I could live with the current 4 guys if necessary if either Daffney who is a good blocker is getting better as a receiver or Davis who is a good receiver is getting better as a blocker.
P.S. I have absolutely no interest in Will Fuller.
 

Schultz

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After scouring the current roster. They need to find as many of these via the draft as possible. In a perfect world this where the picks would land on the depth chart.
WR - #1 & 2
IDL - #2
S - # 3
Edge - # 3
ILB - # 3
CB - # 4
OT - # 5
Now this is easier said than done. FA needs are LS, P, KR & TE plus whatever from the above we feel like we missed on in the draft. Obviously this is my opinion.
 
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tynimiller

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After scouring the current roster. They need to find as many of these via the draft as possible. In a perfect world this where the picks would land on the depth chart.
WR - #1 & 2
IDL - #2
S - # 3
Edge - # 3
ILB - # 3
CB - # 4
OT - # 5
Now this is easier said than done. FA needs are LS, P, KR & TE plus whatever from the above we feel like we missed on in the draft. Obviously this is my opinion.

We signed a punter and his guarantee means he isn’t competing, plus we signed Tonyan back so TE may have slid some for you maybe not.
 

milani

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After scouring the current roster. They need to find as many of these via the draft as possible. In a perfect world this where the picks would land on the depth chart.
WR - #1 & 2
IDL - #2
S - # 3
Edge - # 3
ILB - # 3
CB - # 4
OT - # 5
Now this is easier said than done. FA needs are LS, P, KR & TE plus whatever from the above we feel like we missed on in the draft. Obviously this is my opinion.
I would not look so hard at a P since we signed O'Donnell right now. The others yes. Do we look for an extra IDL or OG/C?
 

David Ciembronowicz

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As of today this roster has a Plus defense and an offense that is ?????. Their OL, WR groups are IMO questionable with at least 2 new starters needed on the OL, 1 returning that frankly is questionable as to whether his knee can hold up. Their WR have no #1 and frankly IMO no #2; Cobb can be a slot guy and fill-in, Lazard has not proven to be a 1 or 2 at this stage. They did nothing to help the offense other than bring back AR and wonder how he views this side of the team. If one of their top 2 RB goes down to injury that leaves them very limited. If GB thinks they are going to get immediate starters at 22 and 28 it will be a welcome surprise, rare it is to find starters from the draft that don't have growing pain issues. As of now without any additions (not sure if there is even anyone out there as a FA that would fill those slots) the 2022-23 team will be hoping Defense can win games while the Offense tries to find itself. Do not see 13-4 again this year, rather, potential for 7 losses, maybe even 8 depending on whether the offense can generate points. 10-7/9-8 unless they strike GOLD in the draft. Is this what AR came back for? Hope I am totally wrong.
 

Poppa San

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at least 2 new starters needed on the OL
4 of the 5 penciled in starters started quite a few games last season and are quite young. Development at this stage will still be an option. The 5th is an all-pro starter that missed the entire season with a knee issue. Even coming back at his 80% level is still an above average starter. I personally do not see the doom & gloom about the OL that is rampant around these parts. OTOH I would not complain about an upgrade pretty much anywhere across the line, unless it is a day one pick.
 
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As of today this roster has a Plus defense and an offense that is ?????. Their OL, WR groups are IMO questionable with at least 2 new starters needed on the OL, 1 returning that frankly is questionable as to whether his knee can hold up. Their WR have no #1 and frankly IMO no #2; Cobb can be a slot guy and fill-in, Lazard has not proven to be a 1 or 2 at this stage. They did nothing to help the offense other than bring back AR and wonder how he views this side of the team. If one of their top 2 RB goes down to injury that leaves them very limited. If GB thinks they are going to get immediate starters at 22 and 28 it will be a welcome surprise, rare it is to find starters from the draft that don't have growing pain issues. As of now without any additions (not sure if there is even anyone out there as a FA that would fill those slots) the 2022-23 team will be hoping Defense can win games while the Offense tries to find itself. Do not see 13-4 again this year, rather, potential for 7 losses, maybe even 8 depending on whether the offense can generate points. 10-7/9-8 unless they strike GOLD in the draft. Is this what AR came back for? Hope I am totally wrong.
Not at all that very accurate. You are not wrong at all at this very moment.
We are on Chapter 4 of a 10 Chapter “position” story

I’m not saying this WILL happen. But if we sign 1 established veteran, in the manner of a Landry, Green, Jones .., then add an Olave/Burks and a Pickens/Pierce types? Plus maybe a mid round TE? Then add a top 30-60 type OL? I think we can surpass 2021 gross receiving yards
(from all position groups). I think folks are far too worried and actually might be shocked what our potential is right now.

It took blowing out a high #1 Wideout, yet the focus is laser like at that position group for the first time on over a decade. Gutey and his staff are very formidable and I’m ultra curious how he’s going to load up. We’ll go from a couple of Muskets to a Gatling Gun and for our enemy, I’ve got a sneaking suspicion they’ll be caught off guard.

In the meantime, keep up the good work of making us sound discouraged and defeated. It’s the perfect smoke cover while we form an ambush :tup:
 
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PikeBadger

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As of today this roster has a Plus defense and an offense that is ?????. Their OL, WR groups are IMO questionable with at least 2 new starters needed on the OL, 1 returning that frankly is questionable as to whether his knee can hold up. Their WR have no #1 and frankly IMO no #2; Cobb can be a slot guy and fill-in, Lazard has not proven to be a 1 or 2 at this stage. They did nothing to help the offense other than bring back AR and wonder how he views this side of the team. If one of their top 2 RB goes down to injury that leaves them very limited. If GB thinks they are going to get immediate starters at 22 and 28 it will be a welcome surprise, rare it is to find starters from the draft that don't have growing pain issues. As of now without any additions (not sure if there is even anyone out there as a FA that would fill those slots) the 2022-23 team will be hoping Defense can win games while the Offense tries to find itself. Do not see 13-4 again this year, rather, potential for 7 losses, maybe even 8 depending on whether the offense can generate points. 10-7/9-8 unless they strike GOLD in the draft. Is this what AR came back for? Hope I am totally wrong.
I personally think you are totally wrong. I think we'll see more of a run centric offense with TE's and RB's getting more targets with Adams and Scantling gone. The overall roster as it sits currently still is loaded with talent and 11 more draft picks will just add to that though I'm not expecting any of the rookies to win starting jobs in the first half of the season.
 

milani

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As of today this roster has a Plus defense and an offense that is ?????. Their OL, WR groups are IMO questionable with at least 2 new starters needed on the OL, 1 returning that frankly is questionable as to whether his knee can hold up. Their WR have no #1 and frankly IMO no #2; Cobb can be a slot guy and fill-in, Lazard has not proven to be a 1 or 2 at this stage. They did nothing to help the offense other than bring back AR and wonder how he views this side of the team. If one of their top 2 RB goes down to injury that leaves them very limited. If GB thinks they are going to get immediate starters at 22 and 28 it will be a welcome surprise, rare it is to find starters from the draft that don't have growing pain issues. As of now without any additions (not sure if there is even anyone out there as a FA that would fill those slots) the 2022-23 team will be hoping Defense can win games while the Offense tries to find itself. Do not see 13-4 again this year, rather, potential for 7 losses, maybe even 8 depending on whether the offense can generate points. 10-7/9-8 unless they strike GOLD in the draft. Is this what AR came back for? Hope I am totally wrong.
It could still get us in the postseason. Probably not a division winner. Who knows? If we go on the road the hostility may make us play better than what we saw at Lambeau the last 2 Januarys.
 

Team Ronny

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4 of the 5 penciled in starters started quite a few games last season and are quite young. Development at this stage will still be an option. The 5th is an all-pro starter that missed the entire season with a knee issue. Even coming back at his 80% level is still an above average starter. I personally do not see the doom & gloom about the OL that is rampant around these parts. OTOH I would not complain about an upgrade pretty much anywhere across the line, unless it is a day one pick.
That's the way I feel about the oline too. They have drafted alot of oline guys the last 2 -3 years, Yosh Nijman could probably start as well. It is a deep oline group. I hope they don't draft there until about the 4th rd.
 
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That's the way I feel about the oline too. They have drafted alot of oline guys the last 2 -3 years, Yosh Nijman could probably start as well. It is a deep oline group. I hope they don't draft there until about the 4th rd.
? You mean 6th round stabs? Fir me it’s not OL Doom n gloom. It’s simply called being prepared at an ultra vital position group. Possibly even called bringing it up a notch.

I disagree. I gave OL (in some capacity) Either a OT or OG/C as a top 3 need. If we pass up an exceptional OL prospect before #132-140 at earliest, I’ll be concerned (unless we find an answer at RT in FA). My hope is we go OL Round 2

Oh. We replaced the NFL best Center with a 2nd Round Rookie (which is fine) but let’s not pretend that’s not a role wash, at best.

We had backups starting all season and we have 2 pro bowl types that have not played a Full game since Elgton blew an ACL or long before) We let 2 OL depart and we have the other 2 recovering from ACL surgery.
Add to that no #1 or #2 Wideout and no #1 Flex TE (? On big Bill)

Right now I have us needing 2 OL,
1 inside our first 5 selections and another 4-5th rounder. Although if we resign Dennis Kelly or an equivalent or upgrade?
then 1 draft pick inside our first 7 picks. I have OL currently at #3 importance.
1.WR
2. OL/Edge
3. WR
4. Edge/ OL
I will admit that i have no idea where Hanson is development wise. If he’s not deemed an answer at #2 Center I’d be looking there for a backup who can maybe play OG (or vice versus)
Unless we think Elgton can play LT, RT, C, OG all simultaneously? (he’s pretty good I wouldn’t doubt him!) Nij is likely our answer at swing T
 
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