Dez Bryant FA?

[Pokerbrat2000]

What do Nelson’s and Cobb’s production numbers look like last year if Rodgers doesn’t get hurt?
It was very clear that Adams was Hundley’s favored target.
We really won’t know who is earning their 10 million and who isn’t until the middle of next year.

We don't know and can only project. You quoted me, so I am responding. But I have been of the camp "if you can't find suitable replacements for Jordy and Cobb, you almost have to keep them despite the cost". Besides Adams, I don't see another starting WR on the Packers if you release both of them.

I haven't bought into the "Jordy is done" propaganda, but I am in agreement that Rodgers makes him a better player and he isn't getting any younger. Cobb's numbers haven't met his pay since he signed his contract, with or without Rodgers, but his role in the offense is still there and productive.

So for me, the Packers would be better off keeping them both on restructured deals. If that can't happen, start looking elsewhere in Free Agency. If you can replace 1 or both there, go for it. When the draft roles around, they better find at least one WR that is capable of starting in 2019 and beyond.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's why I could never quite understand why some people always called TT a WR genius. According to what I could find Ted has drafted 18 WRs as GM of the Packers. IMO 5 of the 7 drafted in rounds 1-3 can be considered hits. Terrance Murphy was a miss and if I am not mistaken his career was cut short by injury. Montgomery (3) is still up in the air but borderline and may end up making it as a RB so that may be a miss. Some may not be as generous I me on James Jones but I consider him a hit. After the third round he has picked 11 WRs and IMO none of them have made an impact at WR and the only one you could possibly consider a hit, and that's only because he was a 7th round pick, was Janis and that's only because of his play on special teams and a couple of hail Mary catches.

So there you have it. 5 of 18 hits and all of them in the first 3 rounds (4 in round 2). I don't have any numbers to compare him to so I can't say whether he is better than most or not but I certainly wouldn't call him a WR genius. I will say this though, if the Packers decide to go WR in round 2 I hope Gute lets Ted make the choice.

I agree with everything you said, except the part about Janis. He turned out to be a decent 7th round pick because of a year or 2 of good special teams work, but he was about as big of a whiff at WR as you can get, including his 2 hail mary catches. Yes, 2 good solid catches, but I will give Rodgers most of the credit on both of those plays.

I don't know how other teams fare either and I know many teams have whiffed on 1st and 2nd round WR's. As we have both concluded, if history is any indication of success with drafting at the positions, make it a second rounder and step Ted up to the podium to do it.

 

[PikeBadger]

We don't know and can only project. You quoted me, so I am responding. But I have been of the camp "if you can't find suitable replacements for Jordy and Cobb, you almost have to keep them despite the cost". Besides Adams, I don't see another starting WR on the Packers if you release both of them.

I haven't bought into the "Jordy is done" propaganda, but I am in agreement that Rodgers makes him a better player and he isn't getting any younger. Cobb's numbers haven't met his pay since he signed his contract, with or without Rodgers, but his role in the offense is still there and productive.

So for me, the Packers would be better off keeping them both on restructured deals. If that can't happen, start looking elsewhere in Free Agency. If you can replace 1 or both there, go for it. When the draft roles around, they better find at least one WR that is capable of starting in 2019 and beyond.

Agree that certainly the Packers cap wise would be better off to restructure Nelson and Cobb but I imagine that in order to do so would require a year or two extension past their current expiration date possibly with some more guaranteed money than the cap shows currently. I think releasing both of them is extraordinarily unlikely prior to the 18 season. Rodgers would have a very tough time adjusting to 2 brand new starting WR’s imo. I doubt at this stage of his career he could effectively handle that.

 

[PackerDNA]

I doubt Rodgers would have much, if any problem adjusting to 2 new WR's- especially if they were faster and better.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

If it such a enormous problem for Rodgers to adjust throwing to new targets maybe they should consider using the preseason games a bit more to get timing down. Only problem is would end up with half the team on IR by week 1.

 

[GleefulGary]

That's why I could never quite understand why some people always called TT a WR genius. According to what I could find Ted has drafted 18 WRs as GM of the Packers. IMO 5 of the 7 drafted in rounds 1-3 can be considered hits. Terrance Murphy was a miss and if I am not mistaken his career was cut short by injury. Montgomery (3) is still up in the air but borderline and may end up making it as a RB so that may be a miss. Some may not be as generous I me on James Jones but I consider him a hit. After the third round he has picked 11 WRs and IMO none of them have made an impact at WR and the only one you could possibly consider a hit, and that's only because he was a 7th round pick, was Janis and that's only because of his play on special teams and a couple of hail Mary catches.

So there you have it. 5 of 18 hits and all of them in the first 3 rounds (4 in round 2). I don't have any numbers to compare him to so I can't say whether he is better than most or not but I certainly wouldn't call him a WR genius. I will say this though, if the Packers decide to go WR in round 2 I hope Gute lets Ted make the choice.

If you're expecting a GM to "hit" on over half, or even half of his picks, you're gonna be disappointed.

I realize a lot of people won't agree with this, but rounds 5-7 are essentially early UDFA rounds. They're just taking shots on guys. I don't really expect much there.

 

[GleefulGary]

I agree with everything you said, except the part about Janis. He turned out to be a decent 7th round pick because of a year or 2 of good special teams work, but he was about as big of a whiff at WR as you can get, including his 2 hail mary catches. Yes, 2 good solid catches, but I will give Rodgers most of the credit on both of those plays.

I don't know how other teams fare either and I know many teams have whiffed on 1st and 2nd round WR's. As we have both concluded, if history is any indication of success with drafting at the positions, make it a second rounder and step Ted up to the podium to do it.

There has never in the history of the NFL been a 7th rounder that's a "whiff" or a "bust". If a player in the 7th produces in any facet, it's a hit.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There has never in the history of the NFL been a 7th rounder that's a "whiff" or a "bust". If a player in the 7th produces in any facet, it's a hit.

If you read what I wrote again, I did not call Janis a complete bust, due to his special teams play. However, at WR, I would call him a whiff.

He turned out to be a decent 7th round pick because of a year or 2 of good special teams work, but he was about as big of a whiff at WR as you can get, including his 2 hail mary catches. Yes, 2 good solid catches, but I will give Rodgers most of the credit on both of those plays.

 

[GleefulGary]

It's a 7th round pick! What are you expecting?

 

[Passepartout]

Dallas while they like him as a WR but he is from what I heard a locker room cancer. Thought he was maturing. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's a 7th round pick! What are you expecting?

If you followed the conversation, we were talking about the Packers success at drafting WR's mainly coming in round 2. Sschind brought up the fact that at least a 7th rounder (Janis) produced something in the way of special teams. Again, I didn't call Janis a wasted pick or a complete bust, because he did finally produce on special teams. If you want to talk about what he produced as a WR, join me in the Janis thread, I would be happy to debate that aspect of his game with you.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I will say this though, if the Packers decide to go WR in round 2 I hope Gute lets Ted make the choice.

I would prefer Gutekunst to make the decision with Thompson having some input as a scout.

Agree that certainly the Packers cap wise would be better off to restructure Nelson and Cobb but I imagine that in order to do so would require a year or two extension past their current expiration date possibly with some more guaranteed money than the cap shows currently.

The Packers could significantly reduce their cap hit in 2018 though by smartly restructuring their contracts without resulting in a massive amount of dead money counting against the cap if the team decides to release either of them after next season.

If you're expecting a GM to "hit" on over half, or even half of his picks, you're gonna be disappointed.

I realize a lot of people won't agree with this, but rounds 5-7 are essentially early UDFA rounds. They're just taking shots on guys. I don't really expect much there.

The discussion was about Thompson being a genius at drafting wide receivers though which is obviously a myth. There were four receivers in the top 10 in receiving yards in 2017 either drafted in the fifth round, later or going undrafted. On the other hand TT didn't even find a decent one after the third round in 13 drafts.

 

[PackerDNA]

Micheal Irvin says the Cowboys would be stupid to let Bryant go.
So, there's that.

 

[PikeBadger]

If you're expecting a GM to "hit" on over half, or even half of his picks, you're gonna be disappointed.

I realize a lot of people won't agree with this, but rounds 5-7 are essentially early UDFA rounds. They're just taking shots on guys. I don't really expect much there.

Pretty much agree with your overall premise here. I’m not sure why some here insist that WR is supposedly so bad. We’ve had a very long run with Nelson and Cobb as good/very good performers. I’m not sure why people would expect a 6th or 7th rounder to supplant guys like that. They are intended to be special teamers and 4th, 5th and 6th receivers and honestly imo, over the last 7 or 8 years I think our WR depth has been better than it was during the previous decade. I think Rodgers has been supplied with just as many weapons as Favre was though I will say that Favre had some very good TE and RB targets to work with.

 

[PikeBadger]

Dallas while they like him as a WR but he is from what I heard a locker room cancer. Thought he was maturing. Guess I was wrong.

He is and always has been addicted to himself. PASS

 

[PikeBadger]

Micheal Irvin says the Cowboys would be stupid to let Bryant go.
So, there's that.

Sounds like Confirmation of my opinion of Bryant/Irvin. They’re cut from the same cloth.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Pretty much agree with your overall premise here. I’m not sure why some here insist that WR is supposedly so bad. We’ve had a very long run with Nelson and Cobb as good/very good performers. I’m not sure why people would expect a 6th or 7th rounder to supplant guys like that. They are intended to be special teamers and 4th, 5th and 6th receivers and honestly imo, over the last 7 or 8 years I think our WR depth has been better than it was during the previous decade. I think Rodgers has been supplied with just as many weapons as Favre was though I will say that Favre had some very good TE and RB targets to work with.

There's no doubt that the Packers have had pretty good receiving corps for most of Thompson's tenure. It looks to be in need of improvement at the moment though therefore it would have been nice if the Packers had hit on some late rounds picks over the past few years.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's why I could never quite understand why some people always called TT a WR genius.

The discussion was about Thompson being a genius at drafting wide receivers though which is obviously a myth. There were four receivers in the top 10 in receiving yards in 2017 either drafted in the fifth round, later or going undrafted. On the other hand TT didn't even find a decent one after the third round in 13 drafts.

Having 2 HOF QB's for over 20 years also helps in making some of those WR's look better than they may have been with another team. Trying to think of a Packer WR over that time frame that will end up in the HOF themselves, James Lofton was the last Packer WR to bestoe that honor and he played in GB from 78-86. Not saying that both Favre and Rodgers didn't have some quality WR's, but it wasn't like Wolf and TT have been drafting HOF WR's.

 

[PikeBadger]

Having 2 HOF QB's for over 20 years also helps in making some of those WR's look better than they may have been with another team. Trying to think of a Packer WR over that time frame that will end up in the HOF themselves, James Lofton was the last Packer WR to bestoe that honor and he played in GB from 78-86. Not saying that both Favre and Rodgers didn't have some quality WR's, but it wasn't like Wolf and TT have been drafting HOF WR's.

Oh. Well you’re right that we don’t have a lot of Hall of famers all over the roster. You have a valid complaint I guess.

 

[NBA1971]

DeMarcus Lawrence would be a better choice.

 

[swhitset]

Sounds like Confirmation of my opinion of Bryant/Irvin. They’re cut from the same cloth.

I never have understood why players like Irvin, Randy Moss etc... who, while extremely talented players were also immature Aholes are suddenly people we should listen to on ESPN as "analysts"... no thank you.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I never have understood why players like Irvin, Randy Moss etc... who, while extremely talented players were also immature Aholes are suddenly people we should listen to on ESPN as "analysts"... no thank you.

Sometimes those types of personalities sell tickets, jerseys, etc. You know like not being able to divert your eyes from watching a train wreck.

 

[Mondio]

There's a reason ESPN has been heading downhill for a while

 

[gbgary]

I never have understood why players like Irvin, Randy Moss etc... who, while extremely talented players were also immature Aholes are suddenly people we should listen to on ESPN as "analysts"... no thank you.

moss may have been a bit of an @$$ but irvin has drug history, stabbed a fellow teammate with some scissors, criminal history. his noisy antics are highly annoying. of all the first class guys the league can use for pr, why they use idiots is beyond me.

 

[sschind]

If you're expecting a GM to "hit" on over half, or even half of his picks, you're gonna be disappointed.

I realize a lot of people won't agree with this, but rounds 5-7 are essentially early UDFA rounds. They're just taking shots on guys. I don't really expect much there.

There has never in the history of the NFL been a 7th rounder that's a "whiff" or a "bust". If a player in the 7th produces in any facet, it's a hit.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, my point was that I do not think Ted was the WR guru some people made him out to be. As far as Janis goes I said, and so did Poker, that his contribution on STs have made him pretty much the only WR drafted after round 3 who was not a bust or a whiff. If you don't think 5-7 rounders can be busts or whiffs, what would you call a player drafted in those rounds who does nothing? A wasted pick? a poke and hope, a shot in the dark? Whatever you would call them all of Teds WRs after round 3 have been it have been it except for Janis and his contributions at WR were pretty much as bad as the rest.