Devin White

[GleefulGary]

I don't dislike the players per say but I just think it's over kill using so much firepower at ILB. I like Lindstrom a lot(I have him in my mock) but don't believe he will be there at #75. Justice Hill will probably go sooner then #118 too. He would be a steal at #118 though. I don't want Isabella at 5'8.

I've noticed people thinking getting Mclaurin is like almost getting Parris Campbell and this is the way of thinking I am so tired of. This mock illustrates the continued effort to draft the best defensive players available on defense while getting second rate talent on offense.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE ARE LOSING.

McLaurin and Campbell have very different games. McLaurin is more similar to MVS, Campbell to Percy Harvin.

Anyways, I kind of agree with you on the mock. Taking two ILB's in the first is a gross use of our assets. It's not a valuable enough position to do that. If we're going to double up a position, it should be edge or OL.

I don't agree on why we're losing. Our defensive talent, is bad, and obviously needs to improve. I don't care how good our offense is, we aren't winning anything without a pass rush. Look at Kansas City. Their offense was significantly better than ours, they actually had a pass rush, and a pretty poor overall defense. We cannot win anything without a pass rush.

Look at the SB. Two very good offenses...and defense was the name of the game. We cannot win the Super Bowl without a good defense, and right now the most efficient way to add good talent to a defense is through the draft. We will obviously have to supplement through free agency, and I think FA will be a great way to add safety talent, but not so much in the way of a pass rusher.

While we need offensive talent, I would argue the OL need I'd significantly higher than at WR. I can find a suitable slot on the 2nd/3rd day. Much harder to do that with OL/Edge.

And finally, I can't say I've watched any of Pratt so I'll take your word for it, but check out Blake Cashman. He looks really good. Better than Mack Wilson, and he should be there on the 2nd day, maaaaybe even the 3rd.

 

[brandon2348]

McLaurin and Campbell have very different games. McLaurin is more similar to MVS, Campbell to Percy Harvin.

Anyways, I kind of agree with you on the mock. Taking two ILB's in the first is a gross use of our assets. It's not a valuable enough position to do that. If we're going to double up a position, it should be edge or OL.

I don't agree on why we're losing. Our defensive talent, is bad, and obviously needs to improve. I don't care how good our offense is, we aren't winning anything without a pass rush. Look at Kansas City. Their offense was significantly better than ours, they actually had a pass rush, and a pretty poor overall defense. We cannot win anything without a pass rush.

Look at the SB. Two very good offenses...and defense was the name of the game. We cannot win the Super Bowl without a good defense, and right now the most efficient way to add good talent to a defense is through the draft. We will obviously have to supplement through free agency, and I think FA will be a great way to add safety talent, but not so much in the way of a pass rusher.

While we need offensive talent, I would argue the OL need I'd significantly higher than at WR. I can find a suitable slot on the 2nd/3rd day. Much harder to do that with OL/Edge.

And finally, I can't say I've watched any of Pratt so I'll take your word for it, but check out Blake Cashman. He looks really good. Better than Mack Wilson, and he should be there on the 2nd day, maaaaybe even the 3rd.

KC had the 31st ranked defense. They could not stop the run and there secondary was horrible. All they had was a pass rush.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...OTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

With that said I've been saying for awhile now that KC IS THE BLUEPRINT for our success. They were a guy lining up off sides away from going to a Super Bowl and probably winning a Super Bowl. I will take those chances any day for the Packers over what we have been.

 

[morango]

KC had the 31st ranked defense. They could not stop the run and there secondary was horrible. All they had was a pass rush.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...OTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

With that said I've been saying for awhile now that KC IS THE BLUEPRINT for our success. They were a guy lining up off sides away from going to a Super Bowl and probably winning a Super Bowl. I will take those chances any day for the Packers over what we have been.

Well they have a really good QB on a cheap, long term rookie contract. So some of their success will be really hard to replicate. I will admit though that I am impressed with Reid’s creativity.

 

[OldSchool101]

I can find a suitable slot on the 2nd/3rd day.

I probably wouldn’t have agreed with you awhile go until listening to several interviews with GMs or Personnel guys that specifically said that they thought (not in these exact words) that this year some WRs will get pushed into day 3 that have no business slipping that far.
Taking that information and coupling it with GB having 3 picks in the first 48 selections of day 3 (Day 3: pick #8, pick #12, pick #48). I feel like there’s a strong possibility we can still get a very capable slot WR who might otherwise be a late 2nd day range pick in an average draft.
While I’d prefer to get someone elite to replace Cobb, this gives us some flexibility to pick at OL or DL etc..earlier instead.

 

[brandon2348]

Well they have a really good QB on a cheap, long term rookie contract. So some of their success will be really hard to replicate. I will admit though that I am impressed with Reid’s creativity.

They paid a combined 42+ million to Houston(a guy there talking about letting go), Berry who was non-exsistent and probably is washed and Watkins who put up less then average numbers with Houston leading the way at 20.4 mill.

Now I do understand that Watkins offered Mahommes another legit target and helped open up things for other guys. I also understand Houston getting doubled and opening things up for Ford but none of the 3 were difference makers last season.

The rookie QB contract will continue to help the Chiefs for a little bit longer but what they did last year s exactly what the Packers need to do to win with Rodgers being 35 and they can if they choose.

Building an elite defense was a pipe dream that was never gonna happen. It's time to go all-in on offense and make a couple key moves on the defensive side. The days of drafting 2-3 years down the road have to be over.

The Packers only chance to hoist another Lombardi during the Rodgers era is to build an offense that can move the ball and score like the Chiefs did and we can with AR12. Remember, the Chiefs were a guy lining up offsides away from probably winning the Super Bowl.

#KCistheBLUEPRINT

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While we need offensive talent, I would argue the OL need I'd significantly higher than at WR. I can find a suitable slot on the 2nd/3rd day. Much harder to do that with OL/Edge.

I definitely agree that it's close to impossible to draft impact edge rushers on day 3 but the Packers have been pretty successful drafting offensive linemen in later rounds though.

 

[brandon2348]

I probably wouldn’t have agreed with you awhile go until listening to several interviews with GMs or Personnel guys that specifically said that they thought (not in these exact words) that this year some WRs will get pushed into day 3 that have no business slipping that far.

If that is the case then all the more reason to get one of the top guys because they have just that much more of a chance to be truly elite.

 

[AmishMafia]

More convinced White is the pick if there. Synergies. All about those synergies. Adding ZSmith and PSmith as FAs seals the deal for me. If you couple all that pressure on the edges (ZSmith going inside on passing downs) with some more pressure, it makes everyone better. Each of the Smith's are probably good for 10 sacks a year. But with White, you are going to turn some of those pressures into sacks for the other guys. So maybe they get 12 sacks a season.

 

[bigbubbatd]

If the Packers get White to go with Martinez i think you can make a solid argument each unit is at least average
DL - Clark, Daniels, Lowry, potentially Smith on passing downs. That is above average
LB - Smith, Smith, Martinez, White then Frackrell is at least average and a solid step up from last year
DB - Amos, Williams, Alexander, King, Johnson. This group is harder to gauge because of King's injury history.

If Wilkerson and/or Breeland return and we draft White I feel better about the Packers defense than I have for some time. Even if they draft White I could still see another safety drafted in the first few rounds.

I would love to see an Iowa TE drop to the Packers second pick if possible. Dream first round is probably White, then an Iowa TE. Next batch of picks can go OLB, Safety, OL

 

[OldSchool101]

I love the idea of White. But the creme de la creme would be to both resign Mo and add White. That adds a significant amount of talent in all areas.

The only other thing I’d consider is drafting a Safety that has CB experience. Chauncey Gardner-Johnson or similar.

 

[4zone]

Can't see him dropping to #12. If he does, that would be the easiest pick we've had since AR.

 

[Dantés]

I don't see why an off ball linebacker who has trouble playing under control and isn't even the best athlete in his own draft class would be the easiest pick since 2005.

 

[AmishMafia]

I don't see why an off ball linebacker who has trouble playing under control and isn't even the best athlete in his own draft class would be the easiest pick since 2005.

Only one player is the best athlete, and we are picking 12th. Clearly, though, he is an elite athlete. But, we dont want the best athlete, we want the best football player. And that very well could be Devin White. What you are not seeing in the stats is his leadership skills which I think are the best in the entire draft. I think he will be the ring leader who gets everyone playing better. He is the most aggressive tackler as well who is always around the ball. We need to infuse this defense with speed and aggressiveness. White is perfect for us.

 

[GleefulGary]

Only one player is the best athlete, and we are picking 12th. Clearly, though, he is an elite athlete. But, we dont want the best athlete, we want the best football player. And that very well could be Devin White. What you are not seeing in the stats is his leadership skills which I think are the best in the entire draft. I think he will be the ring leader who gets everyone playing better. He is the most aggressive tackler as well who is always around the ball. We need to infuse this defense with speed and aggressiveness. White is perfect for us.

Being an aggressive tackler isn't always the best thing.

I won't comment on leadership ability. We don't know any of that, tbh.

I would ask you to watch Devin Bush on tape. What does White do better? Because I really do think Bush is the better player, especially in coverage. White seems to lack plus instincts and struggles a little bit in his zone drops. Immense potential for sure, but doesn't Bush have just as much?

 

[AmishMafia]

Immense potential for sure, but doesn't Bush have just as much?

No.

Being an aggressive tackler isn't always the best thing.

I won't comment on leadership ability. We don't know any of that, tbh.

I would ask you to watch Devin Bush on tape. What does White do better? Because I really do think Bush is the better player, especially in coverage. White seems to lack plus instincts and struggles a little bit in his zone drops. Immense potential for sure, but doesn't Bush have just as much?

Why cant you comment or know about leadership? You cant scout a player by watching youtube clips. Watch a game.

White is a better football player. Better blitzer. Better tackler. Better leader. And still is pretty good in coverage.

I have watched Bush and I didnt think he tackled well. Lots of arm tackles, which works in college. White squares up and explodes with a devastating hit.

I bet white goes in top 7 and bush goes 22ish. White will have a better career.

 

[Dantés]

Only one player is the best athlete, and we are picking 12th. Clearly, though, he is an elite athlete. But, we dont want the best athlete, we want the best football player. And that very well could be Devin White. What you are not seeing in the stats is his leadership skills which I think are the best in the entire draft. I think he will be the ring leader who gets everyone playing better. He is the most aggressive tackler as well who is always around the ball. We need to infuse this defense with speed and aggressiveness. White is perfect for us.

I meant he isn't the best athlete at his own position. But you're right, he's an elite athlete just the same and we do want the best overall football player. Of course that could be Devin White, however I always preferred Devin Bush on the football field, before the combine ever happened. But I think White was significantly bigger/faster than Bush so I understood how most had it ranked. When they came in at almost identical size, with Bush being arguably the more impressive athlete, that changed things for me.

I understand the desire for a focal point leader on defense. And I can buy that he has great leadership traits. I mean, if I'm going to be skittish about Gary being kind of a self-centered type of player based on hearsay, I can't just dismiss the consistency of the reports that White has leadership qualities. But Devin Bush was also a team captain on a loaded Michigan defense, so I don't think the leadership trait is exclusive to White.

White has a lot of strengths, but his tendency to play out of control at times concerns me. There are moments when he gives me some Aaron Curry vibes on tape. I think Bush brings an equal amount of speed and athleticism while being more consistent in the fundamental aspects of the position.

But all of that aside, my main point is that I think it's crazy, with all of the talented players that could be there at #12, to say that White is the pick, bar none, if he's there (much less the easiest selection since 2005). And I also can't wrap my mind around people dismissing Hockenson at #12 because of positional value and then calling for an off-ball linebacker without realizing that the positional value argument cuts both ways.

 

[Dantés]

No.


Why cant you comment or know about leadership? You cant scout a player by watching youtube clips. Watch a game.

White is a better football player. Better blitzer. Better tackler. Better leader. And still is pretty good in coverage.

I have watched Bush and I didnt think he tackled well. Lots of arm tackles, which works in college. White squares up and explodes with a devastating hit.

I bet white goes in top 7 and bush goes 22ish. White will have a better career.

He's not a better blitzer or tackler than Bush. I am pretty confident about that.

As to the bold-- this is where you lose me. If we're going to presume that White is a great leader because of the reports, that's fine. But it's invalid to say he's a better leader than another team captain. We have no way of knowing that.

 

[AmishMafia]

I am fine with Hockenson, BTW.

I dont understand this idea about invisible leadership. You can see the guy on the field talking to teammates, firing them up. Making a big play and all his teammates rallying around him. Watch 5 mins of any Ray Lewis game and tell me you cant tell he is a leader.

 

[GleefulGary]

I am fine with Hockenson, BTW.

I dont understand this idea about invisible leadership. You can see the guy on the field talking to teammates, firing them up. Making a big play and all his teammates rallying around him. Watch 5 mins of any Ray Lewis game and tell me you cant tell he is a leader.

Maybe because football is an emotional game, and players always rally for big plays?

T.O. yelled, players grouped around him, he was a **** leader.

Dez Bryant, same thing, **** leader.

Vontaze Burfict! **** leader.

Using that same logic, despite what players have recently said about Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb, they were not leaders. They, unfortunately, did not yell on the field. Can't lead if you don't yell.

Some leaders yell.
Some leaders don't.
Some yellers don't lead.
Some non-yellers don't lead.

99% of leading happens off the field. We aren't there for that. We don't know.

 

[AmishMafia]

Maybe because football is an emotional game, and players always rally for big plays?

T.O. yelled, players grouped around him, he was a **** leader.

Dez Bryant, same thing, **** leader.

Vontaze Burfict! **** leader.

Using that same logic, despite what players have recently said about Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb, they were not leaders. They, unfortunately, did not yell on the field. Can't lead if you don't yell.

Some leaders yell.
Some leaders don't.
Some yellers don't lead.
Some non-yellers don't lead.

99% of leading happens off the field. We aren't there for that. We don't know.

Good fricking grief. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Dantés]

I am fine with Hockenson, BTW.

I dont understand this idea about invisible leadership. You can see the guy on the field talking to teammates, firing them up. Making a big play and all his teammates rallying around him. Watch 5 mins of any Ray Lewis game and tell me you cant tell he is a leader.

Sometimes those guys are big time leaders and sometimes those guys are big time annoyances to their teammates. Jameis Winston appears to be a leader from a distance. Come to find out his coach had to tell him to stop talking so much because his teammates thought he was annoying ("who wants to eat a W?!").

I actually buy that Devin White has leadership qualities. I really do. The odds that every report would indicate as much and it not be true seem slim to me. But you lose me when you say that he must have way better leadership skills than Bush. I don't see how we can possibly compare the two that way.

It assumes not only that White is a leader, but how good of one he is and how lesser of one Bush is... it's so subjective, ethereal and unknowable, at least in this case. If Bush was a head case who had done something tangible like quit on his team in college or something, I could understand. But he was a team captain on a defense loaded with future NFL players.

 

[Dantés]

Good fricking grief. What the hell are you talking about?

He's responding to your evidence for White's leadership ability: "You can see the guy on the field talking to teammates, firing them up. Making a big play and all his teammates rallying around him. Watch 5 mins of any Ray Lewis game and tell me you cant tell he is a leader."

The point being that that sort of on field behavior does not necessarily indicate leadership.

 

[GleefulGary]

He's responding to your evidence for White's leadership ability: "You can see the guy on the field talking to teammates, firing them up. Making a big play and all his teammates rallying around him. Watch 5 mins of any Ray Lewis game and tell me you cant tell he is a leader."

The point being that that sort of on field behavior does not necessarily indicate leadership.

Yeah, this.

 

[AmishMafia]

Sometimes those guys are big time leaders and sometimes those guys are big time annoyances to their teammates. Jameis Winston appears to be a leader from a distance. Come to find out his coach had to tell him to stop talking so much because his teammates thought he was annoying ("who wants to eat a W?!").

I actually buy that Devin White has leadership qualities. I really do. The odds that every report would indicate as much and it not be true seem slim to me. But you lose me when you say that he must have way better leadership skills than Bush. I don't see how we can possibly compare the two that way.

It assumes not only that White is a leader, but how good of one he is and how lesser of one Bush is... it's so subjective, ethereal and unknowable, at least in this case. If Bush was a head case who had done something tangible like quit on his team in college or something, I could understand. But he was a team captain on a defense loaded with future NFL players.

You are getting off track. I never said he was a way better leader. I do think he is a better leader and I believe his leadership style is better for the Packers. But I have never said bush isnt a leader.

He's responding to your evidence for White's leadership ability: "You can see the guy on the field talking to teammates, firing them up. Making a big play and all his teammates rallying around him. Watch 5 mins of any Ray Lewis game and tell me you cant tell he is a leader."

The point being that that sort of on field behavior does not necessarily indicate leadership.

he is talking about people who yell. As if yelling equals leadership in his mind.

 

[Mondio]

My wife told me I need to learn to have confrontation without yelling or cursing