1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Defensive Line is on "Life Support"

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,323
    Ratings:
    +519
    Actually I think the Vikings did get better in the offseason and they will be the Packers' competition in the NFC North. Remember that Percy Harvin was out for the final games of the regular season and the playoffs, and besides that he was already whining about not wanting to be there.

    AP put the team on his shoulders and carried them to the playoffs, and Ponder actually looked pretty decent in the after Thanksgiving before he had to sit.

    All in all I think the Vikings are in better shape than they were at the start of last season, but I also think that the Packers will be better too. Our running game now looks for real, and Datone Jones + Nick Perry could give this defense a real pass rush. The return of Dez Bishop plus the development of a couple of players and the Packers could be in the hunt for the SB.
     
  2. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,991
    Ratings:
    +1,012
    Exactly...but some Packer fans refuse to see outside their Packer blinders smh and give another team credit...even if it is the Queens.
     
  3. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    594
    Ratings:
    +499

    Not kool-aid, just cold, hard facts. We are 15-1 in two seasons in the division. And there's a reason for that, we are a damn good team. But, I'll humor you. You continue to say they are improved while we are not. So, let's take a look without any blinders - just the facts:

    Vikings:
    Additions:
    Jennings - Wrong side of 30 and coming off two seasons in which he was injured. Heck of a player, but not the elite talent he used to be. It'll be interesting to see how he fares without HOF QBs too. Not saying the QB's are the only reason he's a great talent, but his production will likely see a dropoff with that mutt QB they have.
    Floyd - Rookie DT. They already had a good defensive line. He'll be good, but I'm not thinking a DT is the key to stopping the Pack.
    Rhodes - By all accounts, a good CB. And he'll start from day 1. But, they still have a terrible secondary with Chris Cook - he of 0 INT's in three years - starting opposite him.
    Patterson - Athlete, not a professional WR. Can't run routes. He'll be dangerous when he gets the ball in his hands. But, I'm holding off expecting huge numbers from him right away. Remember, WR's usually take a few years to develop in the NFL.
    Losses:
    Percy Harvin - The most electrifying and versatile player in the game. He lined up all over the field - including RB - to find mismatches. You cannot replace a talent like him.
    Antoine Winfield - Downside of his career. But in that backfield, he was a leader and a good slot option. They don't have that now.
    Chris Kluwe - Whatever.

    So, they lost Harvin and Winfield. But added Jennings and three first-rounders. If there is improvement there, it is only a slight improvement unless all three first-rounders turn into studs immediately - an unlikely scenario even for the most optimistic.

    Packers:
    Additions (obviously only through the draft):
    Datone Jones - Rookie DE. By all accounts, he's a great fit for our line in being able to play the run strong and get after the QB with some speed and strength. Considering Worthy started in his place last season, there is little chance we don't see some improvement there.
    RB - Lacy and Franklin - Even though they are rookies, it seems hard to fathom how these two with DuJuan won't improve the stagnant rushing offense last season. Just a moderate improvement will pay dividends for what is already one of the top offenses.
    Return of Injured players: Bulaga, Bishop, Perry, Jordy, Lang (to full health), Clay (to full health), Shields (to full health), House (to full health) ...
    EDS - Replaces Saturday who was a complete sieve. He should be an improvement and showed it when he replaced Saturday - evidenced by teh 49ers only getting 1 sack in teh playoff game.

    Losses:
    Jennings - Our WR stable is deep. Sucks to lose him, but we are in good shape with Jordy, Jones, and Cobb.
    Woodson - Consummate professional and leader. But, his play clearly declined last year and he was quickly becoming a liability. Our CBs are four-deep with Tramon, Shields, Hayward, and House. Our starting safety position is the same as last year - considering Woodson was out for most of it - and wasn't great, but also wasn't a liability.

    So, we add some rookies, replace our center, and get back injured players. But lose Jennings and Woodson. I see an improvement that is comparable, if not better, than the Vikes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,991
    Ratings:
    +1,012
    So, we add some rookies, replace our center, and get back injured players. But lose Jennings and Woodson. I see an improvement that is comparable, if not better, than the Vikes.


    Where and when did i say we didn't improve??? Anyways, my debate isn't that..it's the fact that i think our days of owning the division are over with the Lions, Vikings, and Bears all adding some solid peices via draft and free agency. Yes we got better in some regards but we still need a safety imo, a LT, a mlb, and more depth on the d-line..but remember, these are just my opnions.
     
  5. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    And thus invalid. All kidding aside, we do need a safety (though we have serviceable players there) and linebacker depth at both spots on the left side, but DL depth is now fine (we just need development) and we just switched Bulaga to LT (so unless you're saying Bulaga sucks, which would probably get you laughed off this forum, we're solid at LT). I still sense a lot of FA butthurt in this post more than anything, but the Vikings just made serious improvements that will make them tough to deal with. Lions and Bears not so much.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,048
    Ratings:
    +3,136
    I honestly don't recall that. I wonder if you have McGinn confused with another writer. Here's an excerpt of a column McGinn wrote on July 22, 2008:
    And later in the same column he writes:
    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/29527534.html

    That certainly doesn't read like a writer who was pro-Favre, let alone very pro-Favre. Like many here, I read a lot of what is written about the Packers and I was certainly doing so during the Favre-made-mess. Maybe I missed what you are referencing? BTW, IMO Thompson's personality and his public persona had been pretty well revealed to us before 2008: I don't think it was an encounter with any member of the press that causes Thompson's unease with public speaking. I think that's just him.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,991
    Ratings:
    +1,012

    Not saying Bulaga sucks but i still have my concerns with him at LT. I sure hope his hip holds up. HOPEFULLY he is the solution at LT for years to come. Seeing Mr. Allen and Mr. Peppers twice a season will put some hair on his chest. His task will not be easy by any means. Have you seen who he may have to block? Yikes

    Aldon Smith
    Brian Orakpo
    Terell suggs
    JPP
    Demarcus Ware


    We will find out that's for sure.:eek:
     
  8. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,599
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    I stand corrected. Thanks, I will trust your research. Although other beat writers did side with Favre, apparently McGinn did not.

    This is Silverstein for example:
    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/37391209.html
    It isn't as bad as some of them I recall, but its bad.
    Here is McGinn from 2009 (pre favre exit) Seems even-handed. He does ask if there is enough wisdom in the draft room (meaning perhaps - are you smart enough?) But overall, appropriate.
    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/29483914.html



    Thompson being uneasy in public and doing it are two different things.

    PS: I salute your tact. My response if I was you, would have been a bit more salty and direct.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    If he hadn't had the injury what would your concerns be?
     
  10. Einstein McFly

    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    381
    Ratings:
    +235
    I know it's fun to treat football players like trading cards, but that's just not how it works. People thinking like you thought the eagles were going to crush everyone last year. We have no idea how these players the vikes drafted will work out, just like we don't know how ours will work out. Just because online experts/clowns and journalists/clowns said "so and so is a top five pick value that they goat at 23 blah blah blah!!!" doesn't mean ANYTHING. If I guy gets picked in the third round by actual football people, he's a third round pick regardless of if some idiot says "he's a first round talent!" It'll take a few years to figure out whether or not the vikes "fewer high picks rather than more picks over all" worked out for them or not. Think of all the great players taken later in the draft that you'd never heard of at the time and you'll see that their strategy is lauded by you and others because they've taken people you've heard of, not because it necessarily makes them better. Take a look at how the Packer and Pats draft and see how they've done over time and you should be convinced that the smart way to go leads to somewhat more boring offseasons where some people (ahem ahem) complain non-stop about stuff that totally doesn't matter.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    594
    Ratings:
    +499
    So, if we improved similarly to the other division foes, then why would we all of a sudden struggle to maintain our stranglehold on the division?

    I love how you say they all add pieces, but we're the team that still has major holes to fill, as if they don't have any holes to fill. But, let's explore that:

    Lions:
    Possibly a worse OL than ours and Backus retired, meaning they, like us, are moving their RT to LT.
    Also had a worse running game than ours and their answer is Reggie Bush.
    No WR options outside of Megatron and Pettigrew.
    Secondary is a sieve.

    Bears:
    Jay Quitler is still their QB :)
    Worse OL than ours. Kyle Long was a reach by all accounts - for whatever that's worth - and they benched the former Badger and/or moved him into guard last year. Yikes.
    No WR's outside of Marshall and maybe Martellus Bennett.
    Urlacher is gone without a replacement in house until the draft.
    And an aging defense that continues to get older
    Finally, a new coaching system, so who knows how that will work.
    Frankly, this team is about one-year away from going into rebuild mode, especially with that defense.

    Vikes:
    Huge question mark at QB.
    Outside of Jennings, they don't have a proven WR on the roster, though this could be a sneaky decent core
    No MLB. Plan on replacing the same with a mid-round pick that's had 3 ACL injuries in college
    Safeties are pretty blah
    CB is two-deep, at best with Cook and Rhodes - though that's generous at this point.
    And keep in mind for the future, pretty much its entire DL is up for contract this coming off-season.
     
  12. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    430
    Ratings:
    +61
    Was watching some tape on datone ( specifically Nebraska game) and he doesn't look too impressive.. He gets swallowed up a lot and isn't very good at getting off blocks once engaged.. Looks to have a decent motor and looks quick when moving laterally but not the physical presence some say he is.. I hope training camp does wonders for the kid
     
  13. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    430
    Ratings:
    +61
    Only plays he made in that game came when he was unblocked
     
  14. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Ratings:
    +1,379
    One game of film study should be enough to arrive at a conclusion about a players abilities.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Ratings:
    +1,379
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    430
    Ratings:
    +61
    Had a "good game" off gimmes. Didn't click on the link but what he have a pick and a sack or two one for a safety/fumble? Watch the game tape. The sack safety/fumble he was completely uncovered and the pick came off a tipped pass by another defender and literally landed in his arm. Not saying he won't be good but just that he wasn't too impressive to me. This is a forum after all? No?
     
  17. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    430
    Ratings:
    +61

    It's the mobile version so I hope it pops up. But there's the game play by play. Just keep your eye on him and let me know what you see. Slight push, just stands there, or straight up stalled at the line is mostly what I see
     
  18. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Ratings:
    +1,379
    I listened to the analysis, watched his play and came to a very different conclusion. If this is the Nebraska tape you refer to I was impressed!!! I saw an active, intense, and disruptive player. Jones is going to be a very good player for us. Bet the farm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    430
    Ratings:
    +61
    This is why I come here to get a different angle from someone's else's point of view.. I hope your right bro!!
     
  20. Spanish Rose

    Spanish Rose Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    430
    Ratings:
    +61
    But he def came unblocked on his sacks and it seems likes he gets most of his unblocked. I need to watch more game tape though I could just be yapping lol
     
  21. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Ratings:
    +1,379
    Exactly
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    Dude, I stopped watching at 4 minutes, but he seriously owned that Guard just about every play. Only got stopped a few times when he got A. Doubled (and not always then) B. When he didn't use his hands (he still owned the Guard without using his hands a few times) and C. When the Guard managed to get a shoulder on his chest. A few times he just blew past the Guard so fast he almost looked untouched, but you see the Guard get a punch in. He didn't do as well against the Tackle, but that's mainly because he kept trying to run around him.

    EDIT: was watching Barr.
     
  23. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    476
    Ratings:
    +190
    I'll agree, his highlights are a lot of, "Hey look at the guard missing the block." However, in the Nebraska game, where it looks like he's just standing around, he's not. He's engaging the guard and dropping into the short zone. He's a 280 pound college player running zone blitz plays. You should be excited.
     
  24. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,048
    Ratings:
    +3,136
    I hope you are as spot on with your analysis of Jones as you were on this draftee:
    And I'm sure you're hoping that too. (I added the underline for fun! And to be fair, you were right in using the word, "embarrassing", although I think it may have been misdirected!;) )
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Funny Funny x 3
  25. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Ratings:
    +1,453
    wow....lol....nice
     

Share This Page