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Defense...Pressure

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by warhawk, May 12, 2006.

  1. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I know there was a lot of pre-draft discussion about Mario Williams when looked like we had a chance to get him.

    Many felt, rightfully so, the pressure he could put in the pass rush would be invaluable.

    But now we have Woodson and Harris who can man up with anybody, Collins, Manuel, and Hawk.

    It looks to me like Sanders has many more options than in recent years to run blitz packages and cut Hawk loose at times on the QB.

    I can also see some rotations allowing Woodson after the QB too from the weakside or Barnett from the middle. I love to see pressure from the middle. Brett has trouble with pressure coming straight at him as do most qb's.

    These were the type of schemes we saw some years ago when we were really good. It seems we haven't had the personnel in recent years or the schemes(thank God Slowik's gone) to be successful.

    Knowing KGB and Kampy could use a little help in pressuring the QB I think we will see some packages that do that.

    The options available when you have two corners that can man up is great!

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Great post....this has been my mantra for years now. You gotta get pressure up the middle or the QB will just step up in the pocket. That is why KGB's sacks have been down. He is strictly an outside rusher. Ideally you'd like to get that pressure from your DT's so you don't have to blitz LB's. This is why our defense was so good in the 90's If we do have to blitz we can now bring it from all over..... LB's, safeties even corners.

    We do need our DLinemen to be athletic. If we have to blitz sometimes our Dlinemen will need to drop off in coverage!
     
  3. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Since you mentioned Slowick, I think the game at Indy with Slowick at DC was one of the most painful debacles I have ever witnessed.

    I read an interesting formation the other day where someone thought our dime package should be moved to 3 down lineman (Pickett, Peterson and Kampy), Hawk and Barnett at linebacker, and then 6 DB's. This would allow for blitzes from any position on the field. The problem I see with this formation is what keeps a team from countering with a heavy package and just running for the first down.

    I like blitzes from corners, I think they are successful when properly timed. I think the key to your suggestions Warhawk is can the front seven stop the run? If so, Sanders can unleash the hounds if not, lets hope KGB's weight lifting is paying off.
     
  4. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Dakota,
    I am thinking our run defense will be better by virtue of having LB's that can be more effective in this scheme. It doesn't hurt that Woodson is great on run support also.

    This scheme asks a lot of the LB's and I don't think we had the guys on the outside last year that could get it done. Too many tackles down field.

    I may be wrong here but the way I understand it is the scheme calls for the lineman to occupy and the LB's to make the plays against the run. I know there's more to it but from an overall standpoint I think that's how it's supposed to work.

    I too remember that Indy game. Three hours of some of the worst Packer football I ever watched.
     
  5. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Our run defense improved with the free agents signed and AJ Hawk.

    If our D-line needs to occupy the blockers and let the linebackers clean everything up, then I propose the 1st down formation of Kampy, Cole, Pickett, and Peterson. Monty and KGB can come in to rush the passer at DE, and Corey Williams and Cullen Jenkins can replace the DT's.

    I am very curious also to see how the linebackers shake out. I feel a lot better this year than previous years. People automatically think that Hodge is going right to the MLB spot. I agree with that, but don't expect it this year. I think Barnett stays put with AJ at WLB and Taylor/Poppinga at SSLB. We are starting to have a real nice problem with this position.
     
  6. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I am excited as hell over the continued development of Mike Montgomery (my, we do have a lot of players/coaches with matching initials of first and last names) and anticipate him making some waves this year. If his play from last year is any indication, we have ourselves a guy who can get to the QB and stop the run.

    I favor him over Peterson in your 1st/2nd down scenario, Dakota.
     
  7. calicheesehead

    calicheesehead Cheesehead

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    Not only am I excited about our D against the upcoming opponents, I like the fact that Brett will have to practice against Woodson and Harris, Hawk, Manuel etc...This should really sharpen Brett up for the season and get him even more ready for the real contests. One reason why I think BF was so good in the mid to late 90's was that he continually had to practice against our D at that time which was pretty f-ing good.
     
  8. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Just listening to the names being used and where they can fit it show the kind of depth we have on this side of the ball.

    By moving guys in and out in the right situations we ought to have fresh players in the fourth quarter.

    I think this defense will also give Brett the confidence that he will NOT have to try and do so much and force things to keep the ball.

    It seemed to me at times over the past couple of years that Brett would press in certain situations because he was not confident in putting it back in the defenses hands.

    Certainly that look he had on the sidelines with his arms crossed when defense was out there struggling didn't appear like he had a lot of faith. Hopefully this year he will just chuck it out of bounds and let the defense go to work knowing he will get the ball back.
     
  9. paxvogel

    paxvogel Cheesehead

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    Where does Carroll fit in all this, I still think he can help. I see Harris coming out in passing downs and Carroll coming in or using the nickel with Carroll. He has improved and is getting a bad rap.

    Overall I really like the way the defense is shaping up and we were 7th in the NFL last year. We have three good corners in Harris, Woodson and Carroll, three good safeties in Marquad, Collins and Roman. Yound backups we can develop especially that guy we drafted that played WR last year. Our linebacking core is definately better and our DL is good with Ryan, Kampman and KGB as a rushing specialist. I do wish we had resigned Grady.
     
  10. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Pax,

    We won't even miss Grady next year, unless Pickett gets hurt. 390 lbs with bad knees is not what the doctor ordered.

    Carroll will play the nickel corner unless Hawkins beats him out. I envision Harris moving over on third down to take on the slot receiver and Carroll taking the outside guy.

    Manuel is the run stuffing Safety our defense has sorely missed since the days of Butler. The biggest thing about our D next year will be its flexibility.
     
  11. Timmons

    Timmons Cheesehead

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    Our d-line is the big question on the defensive side of the ball. There are a lot of good comments above. I didn't think about Brett having to practice against a better D, I hope that helps too.

    One thing I DIDN'T like in previous years was rushing Al Harris after the QB. Why would you send your slower corner and your best corner after the Q? Why wouldn't you blitz the second best corner? Of course, this year, which one is best remains to be scene. Jeff Healey would call that a "Nice problem to have."

    Other points, Yes, Montgomery could continue to grow as well. I sure hope so. I have hope for the rotational line up we have for the D-line. We just don't have any proven studs in there. We'll find out come Sept.

    I am getting excited about this year already.
     
  12. GakkofNorway

    GakkofNorway Cheesehead

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    I think we'll be fine on our D-line.

    Mr. Pickett is an every-play guy, and on the other DT position we have some young talented guys fighting for a spot. DE is also fine with KGB and Mr. Kampman.

    Our D-line won't be our weakest link..
     
  13. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    The line is questionable against the run but with Hawk and Taylor added the LB's should be better able to "MASK" our lack of run stopping up front. I know everyone is high on Hodge but I think Taylor is tough as nails and is almost a poor mann's AJ Hawk. I will save my opinion on Hodge because everyone seems to think he will be starting sooner or later but I disagree, and noone will listen anyways.
     
  14. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I, much to Trom's dismay, am not a Carroll disbeliever. I thought his play was much better in the second half of last year. He will be a factor in the obvious passing down packages and will be a decent backup cb. Not sure what shot he has at DB but he has speed to burn.
     
  15. Timmons

    Timmons Cheesehead

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    Do you mean that our D-line won't be the weakest link on D, or on the whole team? I believe that the D-line will be the weakest link on the defensive side of the ball. As for the whole team, our O-line is probably our weakest link.
     
  16. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Like I've been saying I've never felt this good about the Packers D since maybe Fritz Shurmer (god bless him, he could run one hell of a defense) was running the Packers D. I think we have the makings of something special
     
  17. GakkofNorway

    GakkofNorway Cheesehead

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    on the whole team.. I think our running game will win that award.
     
  18. thetombradyhater

    thetombradyhater Cheesehead

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    Just as are defense starts to get good.. our offense starts getting worse
     
  19. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Pyle,
    I didn't think the interior line did all that bad. Most plays between the tackles didn't hurt us. It seemed like the other team would find a way to exploit certain things and we couldn't adjust to it well.

    I remember that first Queens game. They hadn't run it worth a lick up to that game and found a weakness on the left side. The RB would take a couple of steps up and then bounce to the left. KGB was coming up to far and getting pushed out and the back would just slide through there. The OLB was getting handled and they just ran it over and over and we didn't do anything to stop it. One of many T.V. kicker games of last year.

    From my recollection, it was the delays, cutbacks, and off tackle stuff that hurt us the most.
     
  20. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Yeah our DLine is Ok but not great. The good thing about it is our LB's Cb's and Safetys are outstanding and should be able to make up for the line somewhat. We still must get pressure on the QB however.

    Without an O-Line this team is going to be an average team or at best a one and out playoff team. The Defense for onceis going to have to carry out our offense. How weird is that?
     
  21. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Well the difference was last year when the RB broke through the initial hole our LB's were either missing the tackle, being put on thier asses or overpursuing{Barnet}.

    We need to get a better push in the middle and hopefully Pickett will do that. With KGB speed rushing off the end it leaves the QB with nowhere to go.
     
  22. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Yeah. I think we are going to hear a lot of "De......Fense" at Packer games this year. That's o.k. though. The teams that are making it deep into the playoffs all have "very good" to "great" defenses but not all have more than a "good" offense.

    And Porky you are dead on. Shurm's would have loved to get his hands on these guys. Safety blitzes, corner blitzes, and geez, they even worked.

    I guess that's the point of this thread. With so many options available we ought to be able to do some things and get into the QB's head. Not knowing who or where we are coming from.

    Once you do that it's game over.
     
  23. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    What I want to see this year is some cheap *** defensive touchdowns. You know, the kind that the Chicago Bears win most of their games with. Woodson should really help in that department.
     
  24. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Dakota,
    I can see the turnover margin working in our favor this year. Pound the run, open up the pass, use the TE's.

    With the hitters we have on "D", Woodson, Hawk, Collins, etc., I think you might get your wish.
     

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