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Defense: Fewer Plays, More Adjustments

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by HardRightEdge, Jun 17, 2015.

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  1. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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  2. Pack-12

    Pack-12 Cheesehead

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    We will see. It gets old seeing veterans who know what they are doing like Tramon and Burnett looking confused and having simple coverage breakdowns 13 weeks into the season because the defense is so complicated. Sounds like a good change on paper.
     
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  3. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers defense had a similar motto during last year's offseason when coaches were talking about using more different personnel groups but less scheme during the 2014 season. I would be in favor of simplifying the defensive scheme but let's wait and see how that works out.

    I thought it was interesting to read that McCarthy is heavily involved with the defense and provides an offensive perspective to the positional meetings as well as offensive coaches teaching defensive players about tendencies of offensive players.

    As a side note I would like Demetri Goodson to stop talking like he's a leader of this team. During this offseason he was already bragging about intercepting Rodgers several times while on the scout team and now he criticizes the defensive coaching staff for their complex playbook. Yet it took Randall and Rollins all of two weeks of OTAs to move past him on the depth chart and McCarthy wasn't even talking about expecting anything out of him as a corner anymore.
     
  4. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    As we've talked about before, simplifying the scheme makes sense for a "perpetually young" team. I too like McCarthy being more involved with the D and STs. My guess is players and coaches 'sit up a little straighter' when the HC is in the room. His insights for the D should be valuable - and since he's giving away Rodgers' secrets to the D, the O will have to work a little harder in practice, too. I hope the most important benefit from McCarthy's giving up play calling will come on game days.

    I'd take it a little easier on Goodson. I'm guessing he wasn't running down reporters forcing his opinions on them. As for bragging about intercepting Rodgers in practice, I saw that as being more excited about it than bragging. And considering where he came from - relatively new to football and a 6th rounder to intercepting the best QB in the NFL... And it's not a surprise that the first and second round picks are ahead of him in OTAs - again considering where he came from. OTOH considering those quotes, he did minor in journalism at Baylor.
     
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  5. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Am I the only one who remember when McCarthy got together with Capers LAST offseason and helped build the terrible Quads defense? I'm less excited by McCarthy's input on the actual defensive scheme as compared to his knowledge of what's happening everywhere on the team.
     
  6. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    But he's also the one who - at the very least - had input on moving Matthews inside. I have less of a problem with a change that didn't work than with sticking to the status quo which isn't working. And they didn't stick with the quads D very long.
     
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  7. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    not everything you do is a homerun or a touchdown, to keep it football related. Sometimes things don't work. Sometimes they don't work because it's just a bad idea, sometimes they don't work because you don't have the right players to make it work, sometimes it doesn't work because they players don't execute. Sometimes it's a combination of everything. Sometimes some guy at BW3's hits a button and we're going into overtime, but one thing is obvious to me at least, this staff is pretty darn good at what they do. I don't fear being innovative on offense or defense and when it doesn't work, they figure out why, then make adjustments or scrap it. What they don't do is fly by the seat of their pants which may yield fleeting short term success in moments, but a pretty steady descent to the bottom.

    Just like when it works, they find ways to make it better or more useful.
     
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  8. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Adjusting mid-game is one of the hardest things that a coach can do. A team is rarely able to set a game plan and execute it fully for two halves. Usually the other team adjusts and therefore it's usually a tail of two strategies or more. McCarthy admitted that he didn't know about Richard Sherman being hurt. Not being so into the play calls should allow him to focus more on the team, the situation, and in-game analysis. Assuming that he's able to apply that not just to offense but ST and defense, the team should be better.

    McCarthy is a good coach -- not flawless -- but good enough to win Super Bowls. Having him more involved should help the in-game adjustments. If simplifying things as helps then I'm all for it.
     
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  9. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    In this case, we have the testimony of a couple of players that the defensive playbook has been slimmed down, so it would appear be sticking this time.
     
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The adjustments that were talked about in this context are pre-snap adjustments as contrasted to game plan adjustments.
     
  11. DaveRoller

    DaveRoller Cheesehead

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    The Pack's offense has been good to great during MM's tenure. The special teams and defense have fluctuated between seasons of good, mediocre, and awful production with the latter two categories applying all too often.

    Great to see MM is taking responsibility for all 3 facets of the game like a head coach should rather than just continuing to pile up accolades for the prolific offense.
     
  12. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    It all comes down to Capers - always has, always will. We had the players to win it all last year - even with a major hole at ILB.

    For me, the play that started the unraveling was the 3rd and 19 play with 6:51 left in the 3rd quarter. Capers rushed 3 (as he is idiotically want to do) and Wilson had a full 8 seconds in the pocket to find a wide open Baldwin at the 20 yd line for a 30 yard gain.

    Followed on the heels of that came the fake FG - more bad coaching - and it was obvious that the wheels were going to come off.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hopefully Ryan will help at ILB some, but with the departure of Williams and House, and the fact that we really don't have obvious outside players available to fill the position - that could prove to be a big learning curve, with a lot of swearing at the TV as our young and less than ideal CB's try to learn on the job.

    That said, I have no faith that Capers will adjust to account for that learning curve. Look at the defense he called in the 1st game of the season last year, when he put Clinton-Dix on an island against Lockette (Seahawks were laughing about how they set this up) - a laughable, Pop Warner TD was the result.

    I still think we have enough talent to win the SB even this year, although I thought we had a better shot last year - that said, if McCarthy doesn't keep a leash on Capers, he'll likely sink us again.
     
  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Goodson started OTAs playing with the #1 defense opposite of Shields but it took Randall and Rollins only two weeks to move ahead of him on the depth chart. Rollins has a similar background than Goodson having played only one season of college football.

    There´s no denying that play call was a bad one but the defense didn´t allow the Seahawks to gain another yard on the next three plays forcing them to line up for a FG. Special teams are to blame for the TD allowed on the fake and last time I checked Capers didn´t coach the unit.

    Geez, take another look at that play. It was Shields assignment to cover Lockette but he bit on the fake handoff to Lynch and left the Seahawks receiver wide open.
     
  14. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    No it wasn't. Brock Huard broke the play down and showed that in the exact same alignments for both offense and defense, Shields blitzed off the corner.

    The Seahawks set it up, i.e. it was an option look out of which Lynch or Wilson would run it. So they faked the run, Shields crashed off the corner, the WR was open by 20 yds, Clinton-Dix couldn't possibly recover, and it was an easy - dare I say, laughable TD.

    That play was all on Capers, not Shields and not Clinton-Dix.
     
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  15. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Now you´re starting to make things up. Huard didn´t mention once that Shields was blitzing on that play during his chalk talk breaking down the play (do you realize you can look up stuff on the internet even months after it posted online???) but that the Seahawks realized he was too nosy during earlier stages of the game.

    If you take a look at the play one more time and turn off your blind hatred for Caper you would realize that Shields was for sure not blitzing on it but was fooled by the fake handoff to Lynch.
     
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  16. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Good try captainWIMM, but you’re wasting your time. Look at his post in March of 2014 after the Packers signed Peppers.
    Beyond his misunderstanding of the 2-4 and his blind hatred of Capers, he criticizes Capers use of Peppers before Peppers has appeared on a Packers’ practice field. None is so blind…

    “The 2-4 is nothing but a disaster”, but how did it do in 2010? Capers “misuses everyone in the defensive front” but how about Matthews? Was he “misused”? Has Daniels been misused or does there seem to be a correlation between the talent of players and Capers’ success in using them? For example, is it Capers fault Perry hasn’t lived up to his draft status?

    He complains that Peppers will take snaps away from Perry or D. Jones? :rolleyes: And now we’ve seen how Capers used Peppers. The only possible credible criticism would be what – using him too much?

    Certainly Capers is due criticism but this poster is so blinded by hatred his criticism should fall on deaf ears.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
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  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I know it doesn't make any sense to discuss with him about Capers and I vividly remember his misguided posts about the use of the 2-4 but sometimes I just can't help myself and have to response to stuff like that.
     
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  18. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Oy vey, lol...

    Shields responsibility was to crash if it was a run - hence all the Seahawks had to do was show run (it's called a FAKE), they knew full well Shields would come, and Lockett would be wide open.

    That is just another example of Capers doing things that are fundamentally unsound. The most egregious thing he does on a regular basis is abandon the middle of the field in both nickel and dime - of course the opposing offense just runs it down our throat.

    Our run defense statistics wouldn't be that bad if Capers would simply play sound up front. You can play sound defensive fronts from the nickel and dime, but Capers gets caught with his pants down so often that, at least for me, enough was enough a long time ago.

     
  19. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Yeah, but you're wrong...

    The 2-4 has been a complete disaster - and the stats bear that out.

    You guys are just too drunk on Green and Gold kool-aid to look at things objectively. You're excuse makers.
     
  20. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Do you realize it wasn't a run though??? Without knowing the play call I'm absolutely convinced Capers didn't tell him to let Lockette run free if Wilson holds on to the ball.
     
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  21. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    And that comment is full of sh!t. No one is making excuses. The difference is your blind hatred for Capers has you attributing player's mistakes to him. And what about your prediction about Capers using Peppers incorrectly - care to address that? Would you like to continue to complain about Peppers taking snaps away from Perry?

    Here's a link to a story about HHCD and the 2-point conversion. It points out how Capers was completely to blame for ... .... oh, that's right: It had nothing to do with defensive call. HHCD froze on that play. But somehow in your warped view, I'm sure you'll find a way to attribute that mistake to Capers.
    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...-dix-tackles-second-year-challenges/28926027/
     
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  22. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Shields did exactly what he was coached up to do - if it was a run. The Seahawks set him up, he fell for the fake, and there was nothing left to do but laugh at how inept the Packers defensive coaching staff is.

    The point is, for that playcall by the Seahawks, Shields should not be crashing, his assignment should be the WR until a ball carrier gets beyond the LOS.

    Capers should have been scheming to contain the backside of that play with Matthews, the DT and ILB to that side. Given the flow of the OL, they were all, by definition, backside defenders.

    The way Capers played it was unsound - and tellingly, they didn't run that defense again, did they??
     
  23. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Shields completely bites on a fake and leaves a WR wide open. Haha then whiffs the tackle.

    This is a perfect of example of what happens when players mess up.

    How someone can actually think a coordinator designed a play that leaves a WR that open is incredible to me. Or can completely blame the coordinator for an awful tackle attempt.

    Some posters are literally impossible to argue with.

    Furthermore, that TD should have been called back due to offensive lineman downfield and a wide receiver blocking before the ball was thrown. It's pretty easy to bite on a fake play when the the offense does things that should be penalties on a pass play. When a CB sees the offensive lineman go down the field, it's either a run play or should be a penalty so a CB crashing to make the tackle isn't even a bad defensive call.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
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  24. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Shields bit on the fake, but his responsibility and the design of the defense that left the outside in that condition was fundamentally unsound.

    I don't see why this is so difficult for you guys to understand. I'm beginning to think you guys don't know the first thing about football, lol...

    The blame lay entirely on Capers.
     
  25. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    This guy thinks a play call was to let Shields, with a WR to block him, be responsible alone for run defense on that entire side of the field.

    He also completely ignores that the OLB has outside contain on the read option and Clay was in good position to make a tackle had Wilson kept it.

    Then tells us we don't know the first thing about football....
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
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