Defense- Big question

[PackerDNA]

The mental mistakes are surprising to me coming from Clinton-Dix. Usually guys that come out of Saban's "bama program don't have those issues.

 

[longtimefan]

Rodgers has to start worrying about his receivers making mental mistakes and give them a chance to make plays. Otherwise with the currentr receiving corps and their route trees the offense will continue to struggle against good coverage units.

I don´t know how many scripted plays the Packers have planned in advance to start the game but it seems that the offense works way better during that period.

But you cant have a guy not knowing what to do..We seen it vs the Chargers I think..

I mentioned the scripted plays yesterday...Not sure why they seem to slow down but that has to stop

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But you cant have a guy not knowing what to do..We seen it vs the Chargers I think..

In a perfect world and with Nelson on the team the Packers wouldn´t have to play a receiver who is prone to some mental mistakes. Unfortunately the team will have to get some production out of Montgomery, Janis and Abbrederis the rest of the way to make the offense work and I rather have them get some meaningful snaps and targets now and get them up to speed until the playoffs start. If that results in Rodgers throwing some more interceptions than he´s used to I think that´s a risk the Packers have to start taking by now.

 

[easyk83]

Clinton-Dix had a terrible game against the Panthers but he´s still way better suited to play at free safety than Hyde.



Rodgers has to start worrying about his receivers making mental mistakes and give them a chance to make plays. Otherwise with the currentr receiving corps and their route trees the offense will continue to struggle against good coverage units.



I don´t know how many scripted plays the Packers have planned in advance to start the game but it seems that the offense works way better during that period.

I've wondered about the field general concept for a while. Perhaps the idea of the QB approaching the LoS and making all of the calls puts too much pressure on the quarterback? I wonder about the differences between this offense and the Super Bowl offense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I've wondered about the field general concept for a while. Perhaps the idea of the QB approaching the LoS and making all of the calls puts too much pressure on the quarterback? I wonder about the differences between this offense and the Super Bowl offense.

I still think that Rodgers changing the play at the LOS based on the defensive formation is one of his strenghts.

 

[OldSchool101]

Don't have an answer but maybe Hyde should take his spot for a few weeks until it does get answered.

I'm glad I'm not alone here in that thinking. It Does wonders because life is a mental game. This concept isn't new either. kids today get timeouts and adults in our workplace get sent home for the day if they snap at a Supervisor. It's surprising how a little alone time changes ones attitude. Plus it's not like you can't insert him in after a quarter or 2. It would also shut that sideline attitude down pronto, not just for him either

 

[easyk83]

I've wondered about the field general concept for a while. Perhaps the idea of the QB approaching the LoS and making all of the calls puts too much pressure on the quarterback? I wonder about the differences between this offense and the Super Bowl offense.

I'm not saying that we should make him into a robot, but maybe give him less responsibility.

 

[OldSchool101]

Last year we got bold and made some D mid season moves which most of us would've scoffed at had they not worked. We haven't had a sack since 3 games ago and correct me if im wrong (because Vic clearly thinks I am) the status quo isn't working. Rushing 3 in a 3rd and 16 position outside of 2-3 minutes left in a game is a form of oncoming insanity. IMO it is the equivalent of rushing 3 when your opponent is backed up at their own 4 yard line where a sack, a fumble, a batted pass, a anxious snap due to impending blitz, etc.. Could lead to easy points. The result we got against Cam couldn't have been worse as he had all day to pick us apart for not just a 1st.. But for 7 points.
In watching the game of the week in Monday night football (joking here) I couldn't help but notice that once the Bears Coordinator figured out that pass pressure against a formidable QB was key, it changed the momentum entirely the second half. The Chargers went from a complete control position at the end of the 1st half, to spiraling into a crash dive.
I never once saw a 3 man rush on 3rd and long (or at all) The Bears rattled Rivers on consecutive plays for an awesome display of what the effect QB pressure has vs a soft 8 man backfield

 

[easyk83]

The three man rush can work, if you have the right body types. It's a lot easier when you've got a JJ Watt Mario Williams type who will beat double teams given time. The Packers do not have these types of players.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Last year we got bold and made some D mid season moves which most of us would've scoffed at had they not worked. We haven't had a sack since 3 games ago and correct me if im wrong (because Vic clearly thinks I am) the status quo isn't working. Rushing 3 in a 3rd and 16 position outside of 2-3 minutes left in a game is a form of oncoming insanity. IMO it is the equivalent of rushing 3 when your opponent is backed up at their own 4 yard line where a sack, a fumble, a batted pass, a anxious snap due to impending blitz, etc.. Could lead to easy points. The result we got against Cam couldn't have been worse as he had all day to pick us apart for not just a 1st.. But for 7 points.
In watching the game of the week in Monday night football (joking here) I couldn't help but notice that once the Bears Coordinator figured out that pass pressure against a formidable QB was key, it changed the momentum entirely the second half. The Chargers went from a complete control position at the end of the 1st half, to spiraling into a crash dive.
I never once saw a 3 man rush on 3rd and long (or at all) The Bears rattled Rivers on consecutive plays for an awesome display of what the effect QB pressure has vs a soft 8 man backfield

As I´ve posted above the Packers blitzed on more than 60% of Newton´s dropbacks and weren´t able to create any pressure on him either. Dropping eight guys into coverage should never result in a receiver being that wide open.

 

[easyk83]

The mental mistakes are surprising to me coming from Clinton-Dix. Usually guys that come out of Saban's "bama program don't have those issues.

He does seem to play better when we drop two. Unfortunately none of our guys play center fielder like Nick Collins. HHCD is a solid player with half the field, drop him single high and... i think i threw up a little.

 

[PackerDNA]

He does seem to play better when we drop two. Unfortunately none of our guys play center fielder like Nick Collins.

I believe that as good as he was, Collins was still getting better when his career was cut short.

 

[easyk83]

Just to reiterate:

1) Get Shields back.
2) Stick with Jake Ryan.
3) Start playing Datone Jones as a bit of an Elephant End, hand in the dirt out wide and sometimes standing up. Hell see what he does, maybe he'll take to the position like Clay Matthews took to ILB.

EDIT:
4) Hayward back in the slot will be an upgrade at two positions. Addition by subtraction outside.
5) Stop playing HHCD single high, hes bad in that role.

 

[easyk83]

I believe that as good as he was, Collins was still getting better when his career was cut short.

I think he might have been a hall of famer. He could have lost a few steps and still been one of the faster safeties in the league, an awesome player.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Stop playing HHCD single high, hes bad in that role.

I think Clinton-Dix is capable of playing single high safety but he has to stop making too many mistakes. In addition the Packers need Burnett to play close to the LOS to stop the run.

 

[easyk83]

I think Clinton-Dix is capable of playing single high safety but he has to stop making too many mistakes. In addition the Packers need Burnett to play close to the LOS to stop the run.

He needs to keep his feet moving and watch for the post routes. A coachable mistake but a big one.

 

[Carl]

Last year we got bold and made some D mid season moves which most of us would've scoffed at had they not worked. We haven't had a sack since 3 games ago and correct me if im wrong (because Vic clearly thinks I am) the status quo isn't working. Rushing 3 in a 3rd and 16 position outside of 2-3 minutes left in a game is a form of oncoming insanity. IMO it is the equivalent of rushing 3 when your opponent is backed up at their own 4 yard line where a sack, a fumble, a batted pass, a anxious snap due to impending blitz, etc.. Could lead to easy points. The result we got against Cam couldn't have been worse as he had all day to pick us apart for not just a 1st.. But for 7 points.
In watching the game of the week in Monday night football (joking here) I couldn't help but notice that once the Bears Coordinator figured out that pass pressure against a formidable QB was key, it changed the momentum entirely the second half. The Chargers went from a complete control position at the end of the 1st half, to spiraling into a crash dive.
I never once saw a 3 man rush on 3rd and long (or at all) The Bears rattled Rivers on consecutive plays for an awesome display of what the effect QB pressure has vs a soft 8 man backfield

If you're referring to the two sacks late in the game as the consecutive plays, that was a simple case of the DE dominating the tackle, not anything schematic.

 

[JBlood]

Dom Capers was pleased with his defense in the 2nd half! Unfortunately, the game was over in the 2nd quarter because of it. With a decent defense we'd be in the game at the half despite no offense. This defense, at best, is middle of the road, and it's not going to change, if 5 years of history is any indication. So we're left with a team that will need to return to the no. 1 offense of 2014 in the coming weeks if we intend to compete. And that starts with the offensive line.

 

[JBlood]

This question has been asked for the last 5 years, in one way or another. The answer is 2 part: 1) Better players and 2) Better coaching. No. 1 has been tried for 5 years and not been successful. No. 2 remains unknown.

 

[Mondio]

Dom Capers was pleased with his defense in the 2nd half! Unfortunately, the game was over in the 2nd quarter because of it. With a decent defense we'd be in the game at the half despite no offense. This defense, at best, is middle of the road, and it's not going to change, if 5 years of history is any indication. So we're left with a team that will need to return to the no. 1 offense of 2014 in the coming weeks if we intend to compete. And that starts with the offensive line.

you do realize that the offense gained zero or lost yards on 5 of it's 6 first half posessions right? how many games are we going to win gaining nothing and mostly losing yards 5 out of every 6 possessions and you can toss a turnover for easy points to the Panthers in there too. Recipe for success right? Blame the defense all you want. They have played their part without a doubt, but so far this season they aren't getting any help either and we're 6-2

 

[JBlood]

how many games are we going to win gaining nothing and mostly losing yards 5 out of every 6 possessions

I'm sure you're aware of Denver's offense, defense, and record. My point is: we have had a mediocre defense for the last 5 years, with a top 5 offense 3 of those years (no. 1 last year with essentially the same personnel). It's possible to win another Championship with our offense playing to its capabilities and a middle of the road defense that somehow plays above it's average for a 3 or 4 game stretch. The danger of this scenario is that if we were to win under those circumstances it's unlikely any defensive coaching change would be made for next year. I'll take that for another Championship. But anything less will finally result in changes, I would hope.

 

[Mondio]

I'm sure you're aware of Denver's offense, defense, and record. My point is: we have had a mediocre defense for the last 5 years, with a top 5 offense 3 of those years (no. 1 last year with essentially the same personnel). It's possible to win another Championship with our offense playing to its capabilities and a middle of the road defense that somehow plays above it's average for a 3 or 4 game stretch. The danger of this scenario is that if we were to win under those circumstances it's unlikely any defensive coaching change would be made for next year. I'll take that for another Championship. But anything less will finally result in changes, I would hope.

I am aware, and I don't think it will mean anything for them in January, but I could be wrong. i'm also sure it wouldn't matter much for any team how good their defense was if their offense was 3 plays or less on 5 of 6 possessions with a turnover and negative yards. Doing that is just setting up a defense to fail. If our offense is performing our defense is built to attack and they will. When our offense is doing ****, they seem to play not to give up a big play. I'd say they don't do that very well. I do think they can play an attacking style defense pretty well and when the offense is moving, we'll see that again.

 

[easyk83]

I am aware, and I don't think it will mean anything for them in January, but I could be wrong. i'm also sure it wouldn't matter much for any team how good their defense was if their offense was 3 plays or less on 5 of 6 possessions with a turnover and negative yards. Doing that is just setting up a defense to fail. If our offense is performing our defense is built to attack and they will. When our offense is doing ****, they seem to play not to give up a big play. I'd say they don't do that very well. I do think they can play an attacking style defense pretty well and when the offense is moving, we'll see that again.

That's one thing people forget, it's tough to make adjustments on Defense when the offense can't stay on a field. A good long drive gives the defensive coaches a chance to actually work with their charges.

 

[JBlood]

It's interesting that the Packers' offense Drive Success rate (percent of drives that result in a first down or a touchdown) is currently 10th in the league; mainly due to the fact that we are 6th in the league in scoring/drive (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats2015). The defense ranks 16th; and only that high since we are 12th in allowing scores/drive. The same defense is 27th in the league in allowing yards/drive--which, of course, means our offense is either on the field less, or are starting at poorer field position. Capers' plan, I assume, is that those weaknesses can be erased by accumulating turnovers. As Capt wimm has pointed out: turnovers have a significant chance factor associated with them. Wouldn't it be better to depend on physically beating the other team's offense than depending on luck? The bottom line is that if the Packers don't score we don't have a defense that excels in stopping the other team. So the success or failure of this team is pretty much up to the offense. I think MM will get the offense in sync in the coming weeks.