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Defense: a year older but for better or worse?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by mckennj3, May 5, 2008.

  1. mckennj3

    mckennj3 Cheesehead

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    Hey everyone, this is my first post on this forum but ive been a daily reader for over a year and have been a pack fan since i was about 6.

    Just some food for thought, with the defense getting another year under this scheme, and a year older, what does every1 think they will do for production compared to last year?

    With the team being basically the same as last year (swap corey for chillar, and add picks), it basically just comes down to the progression of young players over the decline of the older players. When thinking of older players im sure every1 immediatly thinks of our cb's. Woodson still maintained himself throughout the year i found, but as demonstrated in the Giants game Harris show he can be a liability. Im not saying hes done, but i definatly think that the value behind Lee's progression will be crucial the next little while.

    On the other hand, we have a ton of upcoming talent that continues to get better. I saw a huge turn around for Bigby late in the year, and think he can continue to terrify receivers catching balls up the middle. One big thing i dont think ive seen discussed lately is the fact about our defensive penalties. We were tied for the most penalties commited, and were last place in total penalty yards, yet were still tied for 6th in points per game given up. I'd like to know if theres any sites where you can check what percentage of which positions commited the penaltys. but either way, if they get the penalties down to only average, i can see it bumping them into a top 5-8 defense.


    Any Thoughts?

    One other thing, just wondering how you can change your password!
     
  2. Bertram

    Bertram Cheesehead

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    Sanders vanilla scheme will put our d-line to the test. It takes a huge toll on our D-line as the scheme demands the d-line to bring all the pressure, we will again be injury prone on the d-line. Also our corners are playing on an island, I'm not sure Al Harris has got it anymore, he seems like he has lost a step.

    I am really concerned about the scheme Sanders is running, it's old, it's predictable and doesn't manage to bring pressure late in the season as it wears down our defensive players much more than other schemes. Hopefully we've gained some strength from last season, if not the defense will be in a poor situation. Someone also needs to step up as the nickle.

    If Sanders can come up with some blitz packages to spice up his vanilla scheme, and bring some surprises to our opponents, our D could be good. If not I think this defense will remain mediocre.
     
  3. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Yes.

    And I'm also predicting Bigby in the Pro Bowl. If this happens, we can have an elite D. Barnett will continue to wow at MLB. Hawk needs to step up his game a little, which I think he will. And the DL will either need to generate pressure, or we'll have to start having effective blitzes. I don't like how we gave QBs who played for elite level OLs too much time to think.
     
  4. mckennj3

    mckennj3 Cheesehead

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    Yeah our front 4 will be the big factor in how much pressure we get on the qb's. But i got a pretty good feeling we should be better then last year, Kgb was a really productive situational player, and i see them doing somewhat the same with Poppinga, he played alot of DE in college and will keep him and chillar both fresh. I think the one guy that has to show some value is Harrell, i still see jolly starting with pickett, but we all know how much the pack relies on a good rotation of DT's, and hes got some solid shoes to fill for williams being gone.
     
  5. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Harris' play against NY in the NFC title game has me worried. If he can't cover, do we have someone capable to take over the spot? Thats my own biggest worry about our D.
    Maybe if we can get some pressure on a QB, that will take the pressure off Harris.
     
  6. mckennj3

    mckennj3 Cheesehead

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    Im not overly worried about Harris, he's been dealing with nothing but #1 recievers all year, and kept them in check pretty well. CW gets the benefit of taking the lesser recievers and keeping that big play ability, but Harris is a competitor and will come back for atleast one more strong year. The majority of the plays hes on an island anyway so if the coaches feel him slowing down they can slide some safety help over.
     
  7. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I hope you are right......TO and Plexiglas made him look pretty bad. I wish they would have gave him some help in the title game. Maybe we weould be the ones celebrating now.
     
  8. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Excellent first post, mckennj3, from way out there in the maritime provinces.

    I could see the defense going in either direction this season, but if I had to guess, I would say they will improve a little. Most of the defensive players are either in their prime or still improving. The exception--and I admit it's a big exception--is our starting CB's. I also worry about injuries. There were no major injuries to any of our defensive starters last season except for Johnny Jolly (who split time with Corey Williams anyway). If our luck is not so good this season, and one or more of our good players suffers a season-ending injury, we could see a decline.

    Overall, though, I think we have a lot of talent, including some young guys who have yet to reach their potential.

    I'm not sure I buy the theory that our defensive scheme wears out our D-line as the season goes on. I think giving Kampman and Jenkins a little rest once in awhile will solve that problem, and hopefully we have the players to do that now, with Chillar and Thompson added to the mix, and Jolly coming back healthy.
     
  9. bigbyfan

    bigbyfan Cheesehead

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    I feel that you guys are over reacting with Al Harris. True, he did get lit up in the New York game, but he was going up against a guy who is almost a foot taller than him. He has going against him one on one, with barely any help from the safeties over the top. Also, the cold made the ground work hard, which hurts Al Harris' style of play where he is right on top of the guy and has to make quick cuts along with the receiver. The hard ground did not give him the right footing for that.

    I give Al Harris one more very good year.
     
  10. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I for one am not saying Harris is done.......he just got exposed in the title game. What ticked me off was, that as he was getting "Sharpered" (burned) over and over, he STILL kept flapping his jaws. He should have just shut up and played. It's GREAT when you are doing well, but you look like an idiot when your getting schooled.
     
  11. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    i agree with this guy.

    i think Harris will be fine next season.
     
  12. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Harris will be fine.

    Would be nice to get some Safety help. I put more the blame on coaching than Harris.

    If someone is a having problem, send in some help. How easy is that to understand?
     
  13. mckennj3

    mckennj3 Cheesehead

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    Yeah kind of tough getting any sort of football media that isnt New England over here, i think thats why i hate them so much lol.

    But yeah, although we really didnt have any serious (minus Jolly) injuries last year i think think year we are alot more prepared if some1 does go down. If we loose a safety im confident in Rouse coming in and being just as good if not a better starter then Collins and Bigby, Chillar should add another dimension to blitzing our linebackers and leaves 4 starting caliber LB's. The D line didnt do to bad when Jolly went down, and from everything i've heard he should be basically full strength, plus you throw in a full offseason for Harrell and the new body of Thompson. Only thing that is still a concern is if CW takes his usual 2-3 games off from being worn down or random injuries, or if something drastic happens to Harris, do we really have that upcoming talent that can take on an NFL 1st or 2nd reciever?
     
  14. PackOne

    PackOne Cheesehead

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    That was a great first post. I was too busy getting angry again to notice it right away. I am not convinced we are out of the CB market just yet. I think the next couple of weeks will tell.
     
  15. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I think Harris will be fine this year if his back is healthy. The man's a worker, and he was hurting bad by the end of the year... We just didn't realize it so much because we're used to cry-baby players like TO, Willie Parker, and, oh yes, Brian Urlacher. Harris is the man. I hope some of his football is rubbing off on the young guys (did that sound dirty? oh well).
     
  16. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    mckennj3 welcome to the site and keep bringing posts like that to the forefront..

    Second.. I think the defense will be fine, C.Williams leaving will hurt a little in inside push, but time for the next one to step forward and give a little pass rush on the inside. Muir I think we play a larger role this year.

    The defense will go as far as the "old men" corners will take us.. and I think that will be a long ways.. I just worry about Woodson staying relatively healthy for the third straight year..
     
  17. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    he hasn't been healthy in years, but is playing some of the best ball of his career. Go figure.
     
  18. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    I don't see how it could get worse. IF anything the talent level is higher, and the younger guys will progress(you know, like they've done the last couple years, like whats his face, Greg Jennings?).

    If the majority of the defenders were old I would see an issue, but its like the youngest defense in the NFL, so...no. Another year older is actually a GOOD thing.

    We even have young bucks behind our 2 aging CBs ready to be put to the test. Will they step up? Who knows, but at least the team is prepared to get busy.
     
  19. PackFanWithTwins

    PackFanWithTwins Cheesehead

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    The D was good at stopping teams from getting TDs but I think they gave up to many yards. They need to stop more drives sooner to help the O with shorter fields.

    I think Harris is good for the time being. I don't remember him getting beat bad in Dallas. TO was motioning alot away from Harris because of missing Woodson. When teams do that, Al does not follow the WR across the field, they are passed to the next coverage guy. He did get the one heads up INT that TO dropped, and his best play of the year was taken away by an early whistle.

    In the NFCC, he did get beat some and Plaxico made some great catches with Al in good coverage. I think they need to change up the press coverage some (lining up in press, and dropping off 3-4 yards during the snap count).

    I would rather see the D get beat being aggressive than playing such basic schemes.
     
  20. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    OWWW!!! My brains!!!!!!

    You'd rather the team get beat by being aggressive than win by playing basic schemes...

    MY BRAINS!


    And for the record, it's popular to call the schemes basic, but they really aren't. The system has more wrinkles than an old man's balls.
     
  21. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Packers really only have two aging players on defense in Charles Woodson and Al Harris. Anyone doubt they don't have a good year? Both are in the best shape they've arguably ever been in and both are coming off of outstanding seasons.

    Then you have Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman, and Ryan Pickett whom are in the prime of their career.

    Cullen Jenkins is healthy this year and while I don't think he's a 10+ sack guy from the outside, he should be better.

    A.J. Hawk, Nick Collins/Aaron Rouse, Johnny Jolley, and Justin Harrell are all guys whom should continue to develop especially with the Packers off season program.

    So at least on paper, Green Bay's defense has high expectations for next season.
     
  22. PackFanWithTwins

    PackFanWithTwins Cheesehead

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    Nice try.

    If the defensive scheme is not having success, yes I want them to get more aggressive to try and make things happen instead of sticking to what hasn't worked. If the scheme is working, there is not need to change.

    Same goes with the offense. If the opposing D is getting pressure, I would expect the O to keep a back or TE to help or run shorter/quicker routes. If running the ball with a single back is not working I would expect the O to try running with a lead blocker.
     
  23. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    1. Nice try at what?
    2. How has the scheme not had success? Wasn't GB one of the best defensive teams in the NFC?



    Nice try



    (I can do it too)
     
  24. PackFanWithTwins

    PackFanWithTwins Cheesehead

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    Do you only quote the portion you read?

    Here is what I said.

    If the defensive scheme is not having success, yes I want them to get more aggressive to try and make things happen instead of sticking to what hasn't worked. If the scheme is working, there is not need to change.

    Meaning that in some games the scheme works, in others it doesn't. When it is not working I want them to be more aggresive.

    Hope that helps.
     
  25. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    im excited about the 4 starter quality linebackers we have now.

    it is depth for our 4-3 scheme for one.

    secondly, and this could be way way way out there and unlikely. but theres always the possibility of using a 3-4 defense, say if a couple DTs go down with injuries. I know thats not likely and its not like you can learn and be effective with two entirely different schemes. But its a good emergency option if nothing else.

    I think the defense will be better this year.
     

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