Defending Janis

[RRyder]

Adams isn't very good at it. He throws his way, and when he does Adams usually drops it. Too much is made of the concept of "earning Rodgers' trust," which seems to be an undefined, ambiguous concept. It's beginning to look at times like it's Rodgers who has trust issues. It's a myth that you have to be a perfect route runner to excel in the NFL. Look no further than Randy Moss and Tim Brown who were often criticized for sloppy routes. Hell, sometimes Moss didn't even bother to run them.

Did you really just compare Janis to Moss and Brown a single post after saying you didn't think he was being overrated?

Damn the irony

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I´m absolutely struggling to understand how many Packers fans are convinced that Janis is in line to be the next great Packers receiver. It´s mind boggling that the coaching staff and the team´s MVP quarterback, who know a thing or two about developing receivers, are being criticized for not playing a guy who has a total of 11 receptions in 36 games more often. Janis is a great special team player but him being elevated to stardom without showing anything justifying it over the last two years is getting more and more annoying.

 

[Mondio]

It's not as if Janis NEVER had an opportunity. He was put out on the field and usually screwed up. When you zig and you should have zagged, well bad things can happen in an NFL passing game. Yes dropping the ball is bad, but dropping the ball is an incomplete pass. Zigging when you should have zagged is a turnover. The visible dismay by the QB and coaches was evident. As for just "running him deep". Yes, you have to cover him. When you know all he can do is run deep, give me a 10 yard cushion and even I can probably cover him. Well not really, but you should get my point. Any NFL DB can cover that route without much trouble when they know it's coming. Especially when you're not worrying about double moves, back shoulders or any breaks.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Adams isn't very good at it. He throws his way, and when he does Adams usually drops it. Too much is made of the concept of "earning Rodgers' trust," which seems to be an undefined, ambiguous concept. It's beginning to look at times like it's Rodgers who has trust issues. It's a myth that you have to be a perfect route runner to excel in the NFL. Look no further than Randy Moss and Tim Brown who were often criticized for sloppy routes. Hell, sometimes Moss didn't even bother to run them.

So Rodgers should be OK with a wr who is in the wrong spot often, runs a go when he should be looking for a back shoulder, etc. This baffles me. Now it is Rodgers and the coaching staffs fault they didn't play a guy who could learn the any book.

 

[PikeBadger]

I´m absolutely struggling to understand how many Packers fans are convinced that Janis is in line to be the next great Packers receiver. It´s mind boggling that the coaching staff and the team´s MVP quarterback, who know a thing or two about developing receivers, are being criticized for not playing a guy who has a total of 11 receptions in 36 games more often. Janis is a great special team player but him being elevated to stardom without showing anything justifying it over the last two years is getting more and more annoying.

I agree that people need to temper their expectations for Janis. It remains to be seen how his career will play out. He's very much a work in progress. That being said, his natural athletic gifts are tantalizing. We'll just have to wait and see if his grasp of the technical aspects of the game allows him to flourish here or whether he will have to move someplace else to give it a go with a less disciplined QB and passing offense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That being said, his natural athletic gifts are tantalizing. We'll just have to wait and see if his grasp of the technical aspects of the game allows him to flourish here or whether he will have to move someplace else to give it a go with a less disciplined QB and passing offense.

There´s no denying that Janis´ athleticism is intriguing but unfortunately that doesn´t make him grasp the playbook or run crisp routes.

 

[easyk83]

Someone that's been arguing that Janis stands a chance to start because of his ability to play WR on the outside needs to explain why that is a point in his favor when the coaching staff just last year thought he was a worse option to do just that than literally every other WR we have?

Physical tools are one thing but if he can't run a route then he isn't going to play barring massive injuries. That has been shown just last year and like I said people are discounting that the coaches very clearly had him rated as our worst option at WR but now he's going to jump 3 other guys that the Packers brass have shown to have much more confidence in?

That the other guys save for Adams do not look natural playing outside of the hashmarks is not a support of Janis. It's a condemnation of the guys we have on roster save for Nelson. IMHO Cobb has never looked better than average out there and that's with Rodgers, I'm being kind. besides he's not really a starter out there, he starts in the slot out of a three receiver set. Adams didn't just play injured, he was completely unreliable even when he was healthy. Did he get his head screwed on straight, I hope so. Monty, same as Cobb he's just not a natural out there and that's why he was available in the third round in spite of his measurements and production. What does that leave? Right now mediocre really could be good enough to win substantial playing time out there opposite of Nelson, in our present offense the Split-end really is the number 3 option.

You're correct about his route running, but he certainly has improved in those areas and he should continue to improve. Starters are often determined based upon how they practice and how they look in practice. Some players are practice field studs, they look good but they flop on game day. Some players struggle to play into the rotation on the practice field and then blow up under the lights. Brandon Underwood drew rave reviews with respect to his practice performance and he was terrible come game time. Desmond Bishop, who couldn't earn significant snaps from Hall of Famers like Nick Barnett AJ Hawk and Brandon Chillar, was too uneven in his practices to earn significant time, even after his crazy performance against the Texans in 2008. He had 12 tackles one sack and 3 forced fumbles in only part of a football game. His production was absolutely insane yet the staff kept him as a reserve over his practice play until 2010 when injuries forced the staff's hand. When their preferred players were available again, Bishop clearly had seized the starting role.

As for Janis he was a bubble guy during last year's training camp. His practice field play was uneven but he seized a roster both off the strength of his ST play and his eye opening play in pre-season games. Yes he struggled to work his way onto the field and yes Rodgers preferred just about everyone else. Also yes most of his yards came off two Hail Mary passes. But what of the rest of his receptions. He also picked up a couple key first downs and a TD he did look good catching the ball clean away from his body and using his body to shield defenders from the ball. How does this translate, we'll see. But I suspect he's earned more opportunity to contribute during the season, we'll see what he does with it. Does he have the natural ability to start on the outside opposite of Nelson, sure, but we'll have to see if his route running pre-snap awareness precision and practice performance improve enough if ever.

 

[easyk83]

Yeah Janis 4 career regular season receptions and the fact that he was 7th (Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Jones, and Abby) on the wide receiver depth chart does make it mid boggling that a rookie could jump ahead of him.

A rookie who was arguably the number 5 option on a college team, yes mind boggling.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Also yes most of his yards came off two Hail Mary passes. But what of the rest of his receptions. He also picked up a couple key first downs and a TD he did look good catching the ball clean away from his body and using his body to shield defenders from the ball.

Aside of the two Hail Mary receptions Janis has caught a total of nine passes for 139 yards and a touchdown in two seasons. Absolutely no reason to appoint him as the new Donald Driver.

 

[easyk83]

Aside of the two Hail Mary receptions Janis has caught a total of nine passes for 139 yards and a touchdown in two seasons. Absolutely no reason to appoint him as the new Donald Driver.

I haven't anointed him anything, heck neither did the OP. Janis was always going to be a long term developmental project, we'll see if he continues to develop. Hopefully Adams recovers and Janis continues developing near the bottom of the receiver rotation. Yes I have noticed improvement in his game, I'm happy to wait and see. I am, however, cautiously optimistic over his potential.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I haven't anointed him anything, heck neither did the OP. Janis was always going to be a long term developmental project, we'll see if he continues to develop.

It doesn´t matter if you have appointed him to anything. The time being spent on the forum discussing a player who has mostly been a non factor for two seasons is ridiculous.

 

[bigbubbatd]

A rookie who was arguably the number 5 option on a college team, yes mind boggling.

A 5th round pick jumping ahead of a number 7 wr should not be surprising.

 

[easyk83]

It doesn´t matter if you have appointed him to anything. The time being spent on the forum discussing a player who has mostly been a non factor for two seasons is ridiculous.

Because we have more pressing things to discuss this time of year? Janis excitement isn't based upon his production or lack thereof it's based on A) his measurements and B) a smattering of plays which really did display game breaking ability. The last player on our roster with comparable measurements was Charles Johnson, but he accomplished zip and zilch during his first preseason here and was soon cut. Janis on the other hand strung together a string of impressive performances during his first pre-sesaon, granted against scrubs, but he's demonstrated his ability when given a chance.

 

[easyk83]

A 5th round pick jumping ahead of a number 7 wr should not be surprising.

Can you say "I shot the cop, I shot the cop," for me? You're like the Deputy from My Cousin Vinny. Sure if you ignore his performance against AZ and his smattering of big plays yeah it sounds like it shouldn't be surprising. Is it possible, sure, but why are people assuming he earns a spot above Janis? Is this based on his inability to play better than three other guys on his college roster?

 

[RRyder]

It doesn´t matter if you have appointed him to anything. The time being spent on the forum discussing a player who has mostly been a non factor for two seasons is ridiculous.

The amount of discussion surrounding a guy that the coaching staff deemed our 7th best WR last year seems especially confounding when compared to a player like Gunter who was an undrafted rookie, shined in preseason and then actually managed to start earning playing time without massive injuries to the CB position.

If there's an unheralded player to talk about its Gunter. Not Janis but people instantly became infatuated with him after his first preseason have dug in their heels so much on him that "wait n see" approach is no longer an option

 

[RRyder]

Can you say "I shot the cop, I shot the cop," for me? You're like the Deputy from My Cousin Vinny. Sure if you ignore his performance against AZ and his smattering of big plays yeah it sounds like it shouldn't be surprising. Is it possible, sure, but why are people assuming he earns a spot above Janis? Is this based on his inability to play better than three other guys on his college roster?

I think it has more to do with Janis and his inability to beat out 6 other WRS for a spot on the outside in a lineup.

The fact the coaches were more than willing to play guys that excell in the slot like Cobb, Montgomery and Abby out of position on the outside should be a pretty big red flag against Janis but it continues to be glossed over

 

[easyk83]

The amount of discussion surrounding a guy that the coaching staff deemed our 7 best WR last year seem especially aggregates when compared to a player like Gunter who was an undrafted rookie, shined in preseason and then actually managed to start earning playing time without massive injuries to the CB position.

If there's an unheralded player to talk about its Gunter. Not Janis but people instantly became infatuated with him after his first preseason have dug in their heels so much on him that "wait n see" approach is no longer an option

Written like a politician, Gunter was a marginal talent with a good head for the game, that's it. If he ran a 4.4 40 and that speed occasionally showed up in game time you'd have a point.

 

[easyk83]

I think it has more to do with Janis and his inability to beat out 6 other WRS for a spot on the outside in a lineup.

The fact the coaches were more than willing to play guys that excell in the slot like Cobb, Montgomery and Abby out of position on the outside should be a pretty big red flag against Janis but it continues to be glossed over

And did he or did he not outplay most of those guys when given a chance? You can't deny that he did. Furthermore show me the part where I glossed over his deficiencies. I pointed out his natural ability and pointed out that he's flashed ability, I've also acknowledged that he's a long term developmental player who quite frankly might never develop. BUT, it's alright to get excited over a guy with tremendous potential who certainly has shown some of that ability on the football field.

EDIT: I should say that more than likely he'll never develop. But I wouldn't be surprised if he's a guy who gets cut and then blows up somewhere else.

 

[RRyder]

Written like a politician, Gunter was a marginal talent with a good head for the game, that's it. If he ran a 4.4 40 and that speed occasionally showed up in game time you'd have a point.

The point is that people have become so infatuated with Janis and his physical tools that they'll discount a player that played better than him based on their perceived potential of a player simply because of said physical tools.

So thank you for proving my point. Much appreciated

 

[easyk83]

The point is that people have become so infatuated with Janis and his physical tools that they'll discount a player that played better than him based on their perceived potential of a player simply because of said physical tools.

So thank you for proving my point. Much appreciated

And Gunter has done what in actual games? He was OK for a reserve, but he's never shown an ability to be more than a reserve at this level.

 

[easyk83]

Let me apologize for getting a bit snarky, this is a place for discussing future talent and players who might become good as well as disagreeing on whether or not they'll become effective players.

 

[RRyder]

And did he or did he not outplay most of those guys when given a chance? You can't deny that he did. Furthermore show me the part where I glossed over his deficiencies. I pointed out his natural ability and pointed out that he's flashed ability, I've also acknowledged that he's a long term developmental player who quite frankly might never develop. BUT, it's alright to get excited over a guy with tremendous potential who certainly has shown some of that ability on the football field.

He's shown the ability on a handful of plays. People should stop acting like he played zero snaps before the Arizona game. Was it a ton? No but let's not act like that was his first chance to catch a pass. And still it was two plays but yet he gets people talking like he's Jordy 2.0

And if your going to use tremendous potential in reference with Janis than screw watching film on WRs before the draft and just draft the tallest fastest guy. Hell Davis must be a stud too then and he's got an extra two years on a rookie contract. How could a guy like that not make the roster?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As a fan, we can individually get excited about this player or that player its part of the fun of being a fan. However, our perception as to just how good (or bad) we think a player can be is based on the limited amount of knowledge we are given or that we observe and how we process that information. At the end of the day, there are some pretty smart guys on the Packers coaching staff that make decisions on players, it is their full time job. Their decisions are made not only on their vast knowledge of football, but also a much more complete picture of the player. Coaches are at practice, talk directly to a player, watch practice and game film, talk to teammates, etc. I'm not sure about everyone here, but besides watching games and reading what fans/media write, that is about all the information I am privy to.

As a Packer fan, is it fun to think Janis is possibly a great up and coming WR in the NFL, playing for the Green Bay Packers? You bet it is. But if I have to take off my fan glasses and try and interpret what the coaches are saying through their actions and small sound bites, my excitement about Janis at this point is only over his value as a special teams player, with the bonus of potentially having the physical attributes of a decent WR. His play on ST's last year probably secured him another year as a Packer, hard to debate that. However, besides some skewed stats on 2 great hail mary throws by Rodgers, nothing else the coaches or Janis said or did last season, leads me to believe that the Packer coaches opinions of Janis as a WR has changed much.

2016 might be the year for Janis to prove himself at WR, but he is still going to have to do that in all the areas that the coaching staff evaluates, not just in fan votes.

 

[RRyder]

And Gunter has done what in actual games? He was OK for a reserve, but he's never shown an ability to be more than a reserve at this level.

And honestly neither has Janis except Gunter showed he can be a good reserve. Janis showed that when theres no other WRs that are healthy enough to play he can get a few passes thrown his way. Two plays that are apart of no teams game plans are not something that should take the lead in the evaluation process.

Once again. None of us hate Janis. It's just that he's starting to reach mythic proportions in how highly he's being rated and the rest of us are simply saying that calling him a possible Jordy 2.0 at this point is something that just shouldn't be said untill he actually shows those two plays weren't just a flash in the pan.

 

[easyk83]

He's shown the ability on a handful of plays. People should stop acting like he played zero snaps before the Arizona game. Was it a ton? No but let's not act like that was his first chance to catch a pass. And still it was two plays but yet he gets people talking like he's Jordy 2.0

And if your going to use tremendous potential in reference with Janis than screw watching film on WRs before the draft and just draft the tallest fastest guy. Hell Davis must be a stud too then and he's got an extra two years on a rookie contract. How could a guy like that not make the roster?

He was a 7th round flyer who barely made the roster his first two years and certainly would not have had he not made splash plays when given the chance.

He's clearly not Jordy 2.0, Jordy came in more developed. He was less explosive, had less of a vertical but Jordy's hip looseness and his ability to sink in and out of cuts will probably always be better. He always came in with a much more sophisticated understanding of the game. Although Jordy did have one mental issue, he played small when he first came into the game. He had a habit of falling down after his catches as if to avoid big hits when there was no one around him.

Janis is Janis, we'll see what happens with him. But he does have qualities that some of us really like. I for one like the kid's physicality, he doesn't play like he's afraid to get hit. Him being a gunner speaks to this. He's not just some fast athletic undersized basketball player.