Defending Janis

[Mondio]

Either way, check on all of them from every team. They've all had points where they struggled at some point in their career. I just remember Jordy in his rookie year it seemed like half his catches were rather meaningful catches or had some degree of difficulty and I don't remember many drops at all from his rookie season. I know he had more later, I remember a rough patch, but that was after he showed me, he had it, if he kept at it. and that's all I was getting at. I'm not arguing he was a super star, as obviously he was not yet, but you could see the foundation, the skills and they developed nicely.

 

[Pkrjones]

Montgomery and Adams stand zero chance of being cut while all of those 3 do

Why is Adams untouchable? That he's a 2nd round pick? How many slants does he need to half-***-it and allow a pick before MM and/or AR give up on him? How many nice (not perfect) routes does Adams need to run and then drop the ball? I don't believe Adams is any less cut-able than Abby or Janis... and Janis WILL be game-day active for ST, which can't be said for Adams. Draft position saves guys from getting cut year one, after that it's all production.

 

[El Guapo]

Again - total agreement with you Pkrjones. I'm going to stop making my own comments and just click "Agree' from now on.

 

[RRyder]

Why is Adams untouchable? That he's a 2nd round pick? How many slants does he need to half-***-it and allow a pick before MM and/or AR give up on him? How many nice (not perfect) routes does Adams need to run and then drop the ball? I don't believe Adams is any less cut-able than Abby or Janis... and Janis WILL be game-day active for ST, which can't be said for Adams. Draft position saves guys from getting cut year one, after that it's all production.

Even with all those drops the coaching staff has shown infinitely more patience with Adams than they have with Janis. In fact they've shown more patience with EVERY WR on the roster. There is a reason for that. He just hasn't progressed as a WR.

This post is about the last amount of debate I'll get into on the subject from here on out. There isn't much of a point on arguing with you on why Adams is held in much higher esteem by the coaching staff currently than Abby or Janis. Sure Adams stands a "chance" of being cut. He'd also have to be monumentally bad for that to happen. Also you initially stated after Cobb it would be a completely open competition after him on the depth chart and that's pretty off base and completely over analyzing the situation.

But theres just very little to make one believe that Janis, Abby or Davis stand an equal chance of not only just making the team but also at the #3 or #4 spots to the opportunities that will be afforded to Adams and Montgomery.

Just remember even with ALL those drops he was still a big part of the game plan on game day while Janis showed the Packers brass so little that he couldn't even get on the field untill it was just him, Abby and JJ left being able to play. One of which couldn't run anymore and the other was on the PS and immediately leapfrogged him on the roster to fill a position that he's physically better suited for.

It's really pretty obvious the coaching staff holds Adams and Montgomery a cut above anyone not named Jordy or Cobb. Saying they're all on equal footing is simply lying to yourself.

 

[gopkrs]

Because of the AZ game; I believe Janis will get his shot. He did more in that game then simply catching two long passes. He looked good.

 

[rodell330]

Because of the AZ game; I believe Janis will get his shot. He did more in that game then simply catching two long passes. He looked good.

Exactly. He showed up and Made plays in a big game. Thats exactly why he will get s shot. If I had to cut one guy lose it would be Devante Adams . Yea yea he's a 2nd rd pick but I don't put much stock into that. I'd be in the phone with New England or Clevekand trying to get a 3rd pick for him.

 

[gopkrs]

Don't think you could get a 3rd rounder and I have not given up on him. All he has to learn is how to catch the ball. Concentration. He has physical tools.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I love that Adams who has caught 88 passes for just south of 1000 yards and has 4 tds is on the bubble because of a guy who has 4 regular season catches and 95 yards and zero tds. If we count post season Adams still shines with 12 receptions for 172 yards and 2 tds. Janis has 7 catches for 145 and 2 tds.

Would we even be having this conversation if the Packers drive wouldnt have happened. Janis had 101 yards on two catches in that drive which is awesome but if Rodgers doesnt make an incredible play on that 4th and 20 Janis isnt even being talked about. That doesnt diminish what he did against Arizona but when half of a guys career yardage comes on 2 plays on a desperation drive I am going to question if it is more than a mirage. I mean am I supposed to think Richard Rodgers is a really good TE because of his Hail Mary reception. I just dont get it.

What I read here is Janis works hard. Maybe but the fact that the staff and Rodgers didnt trust him shows me he didnt work super hard to learn the playbook.

 

[easyk83]

Not that I agree with them looking like crap, but that's not the point. I don't care where they line up, Cobb and Montgomery are going to be lined up on the field before Janis because they are that much better. Where they line up? I don't care, but I do know the coaching staff will find a way to use them, before using Janis.

Cobb and Montgomery have never looked good playing outside of the hashmarks, their strong suit is playing out of the slot. To maximize your slot talent you either need two good threats outside of the hash marks or one elite talent who demands safety help over the top on virtually every play. As it stands our passing game likely flops again if anything happens to Nelson. Adams couldn't handle the pressure of an enhanced role and struggled to stay healthy. Cobb was handcuffed without a wide open middle and his limited skill set as a pure wide receiver made it difficult to move him around the formation, save for playing him out of the slot and backfield. As an outside the hashmarks downfield threat Janis really only has Nelson and Adams ahead of him. Why anyone would put Davis ahead of Janis at this point boggles my mind.

 

[easyk83]

Davis is mostly a speedy deep threat just like Janis, who hasn't been able to use his size or weight to take advantage of it so far.

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I dunno looks like he used his size there. In his pre-season games he's looked pretty comfortable going over the, and I recall one TD against the Cards while running a slant over the middle. In atleast one PS game he looked pretty physical breaking through a safety on his way to the end zone.

Let's see what he does, his inability to get on the field may have been a result of Aaron's discomfort with him. Perhaps he's an analog to Des Bishop who also couldn't get onto the field until injuries made it impossible to keep him off it. On a potential level he probably adds the most to the offense opposite of Nelson, none of the other guys have stretched the field like he did against AZ save for Cobb playing the seam.

 

[SoonerPack]

Janis isn't going anywhere. Period.

 

[Ogsponge]

Rodgers throws to guys he can trust to be where they are supposed to be. This explains why he doesn't throw to Janis unless he has no other options.

You can poo-poo the importance of route-running if you wish, but until Janis becomes good at it, his contributions will likely be limited to special teams play.

did I "pop-poo" anything? I simply was making a comment on the fact that the Rodgers and Packers ad-lib more than any team in the NFL.

I am not advocating anything for Janis, simply the fact that as much importance as they do place on route running and playbook knowledge, all of that goes out the window quite often with this team due to breakdowns and extending plays.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Why anyone would put Davis ahead of Janis at this point boggles my mind.

Yeah Janis 4 career regular season receptions and the fact that he was 7th (Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Montgomery, Jones, and Abby) on the wide receiver depth chart does make it mid boggling that a rookie could jump ahead of him.

 

[Mondio]

Cobb and Montgomery have never looked good playing outside of the hashmarks, their strong suit is playing out of the slot. To maximize your slot talent you either need two good threats outside of the hash marks or one elite talent who demands safety help over the top on virtually every play. As it stands our passing game likely flops again if anything happens to Nelson. Adams couldn't handle the pressure of an enhanced role and struggled to stay healthy. Cobb was handcuffed without a wide open middle and his limited skill set as a pure wide receiver made it difficult to move him around the formation, save for playing him out of the slot and backfield. As an outside the hashmarks downfield threat Janis really only has Nelson and Adams ahead of him. Why anyone would put Davis ahead of Janis at this point boggles my mind.

Adams started the season on 1 leg and got a case of the Yips and Cobb started the season with one good arm. Remember when Williams hurt his shoulder and couldn't play DB very well all year? Got healthy in the offseason and looked like he always did the next year. I expect that to be the case with Cobb too, but most will attribute it all to Nelson being back. Doesn't matter where you line up, if you can't beat a jam with 1 arm, you're not going to look good. Cobb, and Monty will be on the field more than Janis because they're better. I wouldn't be surprised to see Adams/Monty as you #3/4 interchangeable receivers all year long and Janis getting anywhere from zero to 20 snaps a game on offense.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Im thinking Janis and the rookie burner Davis have the edge over Abby. Abby looked good but entering his 3rd year he is IMO 7th on the depth chart....

For what its worth, barring injuries, I see the WR's shaking out this way:

1. Nelson
2. Cobb
3. Adams
4. Montgomery
5. Davis (kick returns and some WR work)
6. Janis (gunner and limited work as WR)


Janis makes the roster only because of his special teams play. Abby, unless he ups his game a whole lot, will be cut or placed on the PS along with Geronimo. If Janis doesn't continue to produce on ST's, he is released and Abby is brought back up.

This could all change depending on the preseason. We have a lot of young guys who will be competing for time as well as a spot on the PS. Only way I see Adams or Janis cut is if they have an abysmal preseason and one of the rookies steps way up.

Hopeful Montgomery starts over adams. I really like #88.

 

[RRyder]

Someone that's been arguing that Janis stands a chance to start because of his ability to play WR on the outside needs to explain why that is a point in his favor when the coaching staff just last year thought he was a worse option to do just that than literally every other WR we have?

Physical tools are one thing but if he can't run a route then he isn't going to play barring massive injuries. That has been shown just last year and like I said people are discounting that the coaches very clearly had him rated as our worst option at WR but now he's going to jump 3 other guys that the Packers brass have shown to have much more confidence in?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Why is Adams untouchable? That he's a 2nd round pick? How many slants does he need to half-***-it and allow a pick before MM and/or AR give up on him? How many nice (not perfect) routes does Adams need to run and then drop the ball? I don't believe Adams is any less cut-able than Abby or Janis... and Janis WILL be game-day active for ST, which can't be said for Adams. Draft position saves guys from getting cut year one, after that it's all production.

I think McCarthy has a much higher opinion on Adams than most forum members. Im optimistic. Entering last year I was calling him our poor mans julio Jones. Had Adams not dealt with 3(?) seperate injuries, he may have had a huge season. Considering all the other injuries. I feel the same about Montgomery this year. I like him a lot. Call him a poor mans Sterling Sharpe..... I dont say those types of things lightly.

Janis has that extra gear that Jordy has. He should have been used more to spread the field with the other speedsters hurt. Why McCarthy didnt just let him run streaks, I will never know. We seen what he did against AZ. Imagine Adams or Cobb and or Monty slicing and dicing when Janis is streaking down field..... It would have worked.

i think us people who have been sold on Janis from first sight, need some credit for seeing the diamond in the rough... I think his development has been held back. And in time he will become what Jordy is for us... A major deep threat. But you need him to be humble, work hard and learn a lot in these years while he works his way up the depth chart... If GB is dumb enough to let him go, he will be a stud somewhere else IMO. time will tell. But I tell you what! that AZ game is a glimpse of what could be

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Someone that's been arguing that Janis stands a chance to start because of his ability to play WR on the outside needs to explain why that is a point in his favor when the coaching staff just last year thought he was a worse option to do just that than literally every other WR we have?

Physical tools are one thing but if he can't run a route then he isn't going to play barring massive injuries. That has been shown just last year and like I said people are discounting that the coaches very clearly had him rated as our worst option at WR but now he's going to jump 3 other guys that the Packers brass have shown to have much more confidence in?

If his route running needs work, than why not run deep patterns, just to spread the field??? Thats what we were missing, and we didnt use the one healthy WR who could do that..... Why? Because his short routes were sloppy????? its just plain stubborn IMO.

 

[Mondio]

If his route running needs work, than why not run deep patterns, just to spread the field??? Thats what we were missing, and we didnt use the one healthy WR who could do that..... Why? Because his short routes were sloppy????? its just plain stubborn IMO.

because running deep, when it's the only thing you can do, doesn't do much. Jordy is a threat deep, because he's a threat on absolutely every other route in the tree too. It's hard to cover a guy that can break in or out just as easily and is on the same page with the qb to catch that ball out of the break and beat the defenders down the field. It's hard to cover a guy that can stop on a dime and catch the back shoulder or anything else you throw along the sideline. Jordy is so smooth in all his routes and he knows where to be and how to read defenses and he knows what his QB is thinking. It's why they look so good. Janis has none of that. he runs fast. Lots of guys run fast. Now he did make a few good catches in that AZ game besides the hail mary passes, that gives me reason to have hope. Without that, he's a special teamer only. And if he can't catch on this year, my guess is they'll be trying to replace him on special teams eventually too.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

because running deep, when it's the only thing you can do, doesn't do much. Jordy is a threat deep, because he's a threat on absolutely every other route in the tree too. It's hard to cover a guy that can break in or out just as easily and is on the same page with the qb to catch that ball out of the break and beat the defenders down the field. It's hard to cover a guy that can stop on a dime and catch the back shoulder or anything else you throw along the sideline. Jordy is so smooth in all his routes and he knows where to be and how to read defenses and he knows what his QB is thinking. It's why they look so good. Janis has none of that. he runs fast. Lots of guys run fast. Now he did make a few good catches in that AZ game besides the hail mary passes, that gives me reason to have hope. Without that, he's a special teamer only. And if he can't catch on this year, my guess is they'll be trying to replace him on special teams eventually too.

You send a guy like Janis deep, and you need to cover him. Plain and simple. If they dont do a good job, then Rodgers should hit him and make them pay..... The biggest problem is that Jones couldnt even get down field in time. The CBs were on him constantly, which slowed him down even more... Janis can power past those CBs and force the safetys to cover deep. Thats what we needed for the other guys to get open....

Obviously not every play, but those games it was painfully obvious we "didnt have speed"..... He should have been used.

 

[adambr2]

We can speculate all we want on why Janis didn't get more playing time, but the results once he did speak for themselves. Yes, it's only one game, but it's also more than we got from Davante Adams in any one game last season, who had every opportunity.

There's no denying that it's telling that Bob McGinn of the JSOnline who is typically a Packer apologist in situations like this, called out McCarthy for what he called the worst allocation of playing time that he has seen in 25 years.

I'm struggling to understand why so many still deny that Janis should have been playing more last season when we were struggling. If for no other reason, we had the 26th ranked offense last year, for God's sake. Obviously what we were doing wasn't working. So certainly, leaving an unused potential weapon on the bench when your O is struggling is and should be open to plenty of scrutiny.

Not only that, but if we had gotten him on the field earlier than Arizona last year, we'd have a lot veteran idea right now how far his skills extend beyond special teams.

 

[Snoops]

Why does everyone hate on him? That's my boy! Lol lets be real tho Rodgers make any receiver look good I mean it's right there for them to catch... If that's there position than it shouldn't be hard... Just saying u could take a bunch of shrubs and we still would be fine... Like last yr yeah talent is a must tho I mean jordy missin and all doesn't help so it's on the receivers a bit yeah but Adams blows!!! Yeah good rookie year but had stone hands!! Send him on his merry way I like having the white Guy's on the team anyways!

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

I still am not sure why Janis needs a thread defending him. He is probably the player the fan base overrates the most on the team give how little he has accomplished at wr.

Actually, I think that award goes to Abbrederis, hand down.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Rodgers throws to guys he can trust to be where they are supposed to be. This explains why he doesn't throw to Janis unless he has no other options.

You can poo-poo the importance of route-running if you wish, but until Janis becomes good at it, his contributions will likely be limited to special teams play.

Adams isn't very good at it. He throws his way, and when he does Adams usually drops it. Too much is made of the concept of "earning Rodgers' trust," which seems to be an undefined, ambiguous concept. It's beginning to look at times like it's Rodgers who has trust issues. It's a myth that you have to be a perfect route runner to excel in the NFL. Look no further than Randy Moss and Tim Brown who were often criticized for sloppy routes. Hell, sometimes Moss didn't even bother to run them.

 

[RRyder]

Actually, I think that award goes to Abbrederis, hand down.

Well the coaches rated Abbrederis the better WR of the two when he leap frogged Janis the moment he got activated off the PS yet Janis is played up by many in this thread as a star in the making, or at least a criminally underused player, and Abby stands the best chance of being cut.

I'd say one is being overrated by the fan base more than the other if the coaches opinions are to be taken into consideration