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porky88

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

pyledriver80 said:
Wolf did do an excellent job as a GM. What did you want MS to do, release them and put in HIS GUYS just because they were HIS GUYS. Thats seems to be what TT is doing.

There were some pieces in place when MS arrived no doubt but he added to them with Javon Walker, Kampman, etc.

Huge difference in what Sherman and TT are doing. Sherman inherited a team built by maybe a HOF GM one day. He inherited a Super Bowl caliber team with that kind of players. They had draft picks from previous years that were still on the roster and contributing. Granted the Reynolds and Ferguson picks were made by Ron Wolf and they were awful. Although the story goes Sherman was high on Ferguson and Reynolds and really pushed Wolf for both. That’s what they say I’m not sure what went on behind the doors. I heard that on the radio and nobody seemed to argue. The 5 drafts before that draft were great and Ron Wolf had the team built where they could win for years to come and they did.

Mike Sherman on the other hand didn't build a team that would win for years to come. Green Bay had awful cap situation and his drafts weren't that good. Sure he made good with Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman, and Scott Wells but for every good player he drafted there were 3 that were busts. That's where he screwed up as a GM.

It's funny that you are unwilling to give MS credit for the team winning but you sure do for the team losing. How was last year MS's guys? Tell me who? If you want to pass blame on him for last year, tell me how it was HIS team last year and not his team in 2004?

Funny you must've missed the part where I gave Sherman credit for being a great coach. As a GM he I give him credit for very little things. Walker, Barnett, Kampman and Wells are pretty much his guys. As a Head Coach Sherman was solid and I give him credit for well prepared teams that won divsion titles. As a GM not so much. A GM’s job is to build a team and coaches job is to coach the players. Sherman was great at coaching the players he inherited from Ron Wolf. I give him praise for that.

TT let Wahle walk, not MS. TT replaced the Guards with Klemm and Whittacker. JWalk was hurt, and Fergie couldn't fill in. TT brought in Taco Wallace and Jamal Jones to replace him.

The RBs are neither TT's nor MS's. Ditto for Favre. The TE's were basically the same. The Defense was solid. The PROBLEM on this team last year was the OFFENSE.

TT did let Wahle go. He had to. He had to release Wahle because we couldn't pay his roster bonus. By releasing him he cleared up cap space. What TT screwed up on was not re-signing Mike Wahle. I've admitted that but with or without Mike Wahle I don't think this team is a playoff team. People act as if this team had Mike Wahle they'd be making a Super Bowl run. I highly doubt that.

The enter offensive line that you give credit to Sherman for was brought in by Ron Wolf. Favre was Wolf. Green, Driver, Franks were all brought in by Ron Wolf. Williams Henderson was drafted by Wolf as well. Ron Wolf drafted these guys and Mike Sherman inherited them. If there was 1 mistake Wolf made it was not building a Super Bowl caliber defense. Mike Sherman never fixed Wolf’s one and only mistake as that defense wasn’t very good and the players that were good, Sharper, KGB, Diggs and McKenzie were drafted by Ron Wolf. Sherman gave us Kampman and Barnett via the draft and brought in Al Harris and Grady Jackson.


How were there any MS's guys that affected this Offense in a negative way last year? Those same guys minus Klemm and Whitt were 10-6 the year before. This ought to be interesting.

Ahman Green was hurt. Javon Walker was hurt. Bubba Franks was hurt. So on and so on. We all know this team had probably more injuries than any team in football last year. The key guys who were hurt weren't guys brought in by Mike Sherman as a GM. They were guys brought in by Ron Wolf for Mike Sherman to Coach.

This team was successful because of a previous tenure with Ron Wolf that did great at drafting. Mike Sherman took over and did a fairly poor job at drafting and brining in players to put them over the top. Eventually that was going to catch up with us and it did. Starting with last year and now onto this year. Like I said it's a wait and see with Ted Thompson where as Sherman had 5 years as a GM and has very little to show for it. As a Head Coach he has a lot to show for. A winning record and division titles. As a GM not so much.
 
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Zero2Cool

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

porky, the professional at talking to a wall lol

give it up man, some people just dont get it :)
 

majikman

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

All TT had to do was re-sign Wahle in '05, then he would have had only one hole in the o-line to fill, and then sign another veteran receiver or two, and the offense would be in good shape today.

This would have left plenty of room to re-do the defense.

Why he had to dismantle almost every postition on the team is beyond me, and most perceptive commentators in the NFL.
 

porky88

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

Zero2Cool said:
porky, the professional at talking to a wall lol

give it up man, some people just dont get it :)

That's why if you notice I just take breaks from this and come back to the topic every now and then.

The people who don't get it probably will never get it. :D
 
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Zero2Cool

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

porky88 said:
Zero2Cool said:
porky, the professional at talking to a wall lol

give it up man, some people just dont get it :)

That's why if you notice I just take breaks from this and come back to the topic every now and then.

The people who don't get it probably will never get it. :D

lol bro ... you do well on your posts with supporting facts which the 'other people' lack grossly ... some ppl jus be stubborn as a mule


I appreciate the posts I jus feel sorry for you cuz I know no matter how well you say it and prove it, they will neglect it.
 

tromadz

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

porky is a celeb on other forums. they love him there! thanks for that link, porky.
 

pyledriver80

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

porky88 said:
pyledriver80 said:
Wolf did do an excellent job as a GM. What did you want MS to do, release them and put in HIS GUYS just because they were HIS GUYS. Thats seems to be what TT is doing.

There were some pieces in place when MS arrived no doubt but he added to them with Javon Walker, Kampman, etc.

Huge difference in what Sherman and TT are doing. Sherman inherited a team built by maybe a HOF GM one day. He inherited a Super Bowl caliber team with that kind of players. They had draft picks from previous years that were still on the roster and contributing. Granted the Reynolds and Ferguson picks were made by Ron Wolf and they were awful. Although the story goes Sherman was high on Ferguson and Reynolds and really pushed Wolf for both. That’s what they say I’m not sure what went on behind the doors. I heard that on the radio and nobody seemed to argue. The 5 drafts before that draft were great and Ron Wolf had the team built where they could win for years to come and they did.

Mike Sherman on the other hand didn't build a team that would win for years to come. Green Bay had awful cap situation and his drafts weren't that good. Sure he made good with Nick Barnett, Aaron Kampman, and Scott Wells but for every good player he drafted there were 3 that were busts. That's where he screwed up as a GM.

It's funny that you are unwilling to give MS credit for the team winning but you sure do for the team losing. How was last year MS's guys? Tell me who? If you want to pass blame on him for last year, tell me how it was HIS team last year and not his team in 2004?

Funny you must've missed the part where I gave Sherman credit for being a great coach. As a GM he I give him credit for very little things. Walker, Barnett, Kampman and Wells are pretty much his guys. As a Head Coach Sherman was solid and I give him credit for well prepared teams that won divsion titles. As a GM not so much. A GM’s job is to build a team and coaches job is to coach the players. Sherman was great at coaching the players he inherited from Ron Wolf. I give him praise for that.

[quote:zv57eis6]TT let Wahle walk, not MS. TT replaced the Guards with Klemm and Whittacker. JWalk was hurt, and Fergie couldn't fill in. TT brought in Taco Wallace and Jamal Jones to replace him.

The RBs are neither TT's nor MS's. Ditto for Favre. The TE's were basically the same. The Defense was solid. The PROBLEM on this team last year was the OFFENSE.

TT did let Wahle go. He had to. He had to release Wahle because we couldn't pay his roster bonus. By releasing him he cleared up cap space. What TT screwed up on was not re-signing Mike Wahle. I've admitted that but with or without Mike Wahle I don't think this team is a playoff team. People act as if this team had Mike Wahle they'd be making a Super Bowl run. I highly doubt that.

The enter offensive line that you give credit to Sherman for was brought in by Ron Wolf. Favre was Wolf. Green, Driver, Franks were all brought in by Ron Wolf. Williams Henderson was drafted by Wolf as well. Ron Wolf drafted these guys and Mike Sherman inherited them. If there was 1 mistake Wolf made it was not building a Super Bowl caliber defense. Mike Sherman never fixed Wolf’s one and only mistake as that defense wasn’t very good and the players that were good, Sharper, KGB, Diggs and McKenzie were drafted by Ron Wolf. Sherman gave us Kampman and Barnett via the draft and brought in Al Harris and Grady Jackson.


How were there any MS's guys that affected this Offense in a negative way last year? Those same guys minus Klemm and Whitt were 10-6 the year before. This ought to be interesting.

Ahman Green was hurt. Javon Walker was hurt. Bubba Franks was hurt. So on and so on. We all know this team had probably more injuries than any team in football last year. The key guys who were hurt weren't guys brought in by Mike Sherman as a GM. They were guys brought in by Ron Wolf for Mike Sherman to Coach.

This team was successful because of a previous tenure with Ron Wolf that did great at drafting. Mike Sherman took over and did a fairly poor job at drafting and brining in players to put them over the top. Eventually that was going to catch up with us and it did. Starting with last year and now onto this year. Like I said it's a wait and see with Ted Thompson where as Sherman had 5 years as a GM and has very little to show for it. As a Head Coach he has a lot to show for. A winning record and division titles. As a GM not so much.[/quote:zv57eis6]



In 6 paragraphs you still have not shown me anything other than dodging in and out of the related subject.

MS inherited a good team, I understand. So he was supposed to bench those guys so he could put in HIS GUYS?

I'm tired of arguing. In the end MS had HIS team, whether built by him or not, in the playoffs and winning division titles. Unfortunately, the same can't be said from this laughingstock of a GM.

MS's guys were never given the chance to show what they were made of because Wolf did such a good job and when TT took over they were cut and replaced by the GARBAGE we see on the field now. It certainly wouldn't be hard to be better than that good ol' 26-0 team TT gave us.

You'll learn in time, whether MS was any good is pointless. No matter what he will go down as a winning HC and a Winning GM, no matter how you want to try to put an asterik beside it. TT is certainly destroying this team, for this I am convinced. Up to this point I have been right on about this team and people are starting to catch on.
 

pyledriver80

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

No, its the little group of you who can't take off the goggles. Most get it, You few just do not.
 

pyledriver80

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

Its funny how Trom pokes his head out so much when he has piggybackers but dissapears when the **** hits the fan
 

tromadz

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

I love when you state opinion as fact.

it makes me warm inside.
 

pyledriver80

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

No sweetheart thats fact! I'm glad you feel warm inside, I usually have woman do that for me, but for you it's obviously different and I can see why
 

tromadz

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

did...you just call me sweetheart, and then imply i might be a homosexual?

can AADP or whoever ban him already. im tired of reading his 'objective' posts.
 

DePack

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

tromadz said:
did...you just call me sweetheart, and then imply i might be a homosexual?

can AADP or whoever ban him already. im tired of reading his 'objective' posts.

"Ban him...Ban him..." Damn... grow up and quit complaining.
 

pyledriver80

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

DePack said:
tromadz said:
did...you just call me sweetheart, and then imply i might be a homosexual?

can AADP or whoever ban him already. im tired of reading his 'objective' posts.

"Ban him...Ban him..." Damn... grow up and quit complaining.



LOLOLOLOLOL
 

tromadz

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Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

LOLOLOLOLOLOO!

i should grow up? or the guy calling other people "loser"s ?
 

spardo62

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TT vs MS

*Merging -Arrow

Most of the posts on this site lately have eventually gotten around to this topic, so I would like to post some observations for discussion. We can argue over which philosophy is correct and judge the results, however we can never compare apples to apples in judging the performance of these individuals.

MS thought he had a team capable of making one more Superbowl run, with Brett Favre playing at a high level and Aman Green in the prime of his career. Accordingly, he was attempting to add players through free agency that would help him to achieve this goal. He also identifies key components of the team that he wanted to lock up so they would remain with the team rather than exposing to free agency. He was also drafting consistently in the later part of each round due to the record of the team the previous year. Unfortunately, he had significant misses in all 3 areas and never was able to get over the hump during his time with Green Bay. During this period, the players he was building around got 4 years older and had more wear and tear on their bodies.

TT took over a team that he felt was in decline and not capable of making a SB run, although they maybe could be a playoff team. This gave him 2 choices. Completely scrap and attempt to build from the ground up or continue adding pieces to keep the team competitive for the next year or two and pay the price down the road. With the exception of keeping Brett Favre at the helm, he chose the first option. Unfortunately, I do not think he can, nor should he choose option 1 if Favre is still on the roster.

I do believe that it all comes down to #4. If TT wanted to build from scratch he should have found a way to get Brett out of town, but if he truly wanted him to come back he shouldn't have relyed on so much youth(especially in the middle of the OL).

The way it stands now, the complete rebuilding cannot take place, as we have no idea what we have at QB for the future. By the same token, he is doing a disservice to Brett Favre, who can obviously still play, but has no hope with the team around him.
 

HatestheEagles084

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Re: TT vs MS

spardo62 said:
MS thought he had a team capable of making one more Superbowl run, with Brett Favre playing at a high level and Aman Green in the prime of his career.

Sherman also thought punting from the Philly 39 was a good idea

sorry, sorry, off topic...
 

majikman

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Re: TT vs MS

spardo62 said:
Most of the posts on this site lately have eventually gotten around to this topic, so I would like to post some observations for discussion. We can argue over which philosophy is correct and judge the results, however we can never compare apples to apples in judging the performance of these individuals.

MS thought he had a team capable of making one more Superbowl run, with Brett Favre playing at a high level and Aman Green in the prime of his career. Accordingly, he was attempting to add players through free agency that would help him to achieve this goal. He also identifies key components of the team that he wanted to lock up so they would remain with the team rather than exposing to free agency. He was also drafting consistently in the later part of each round due to the record of the team the previous year. Unfortunately, he had significant misses in all 3 areas and never was able to get over the hump during his time with Green Bay. During this period, the players he was building around got 4 years older and had more wear and tear on their bodies.

TT took over a team that he felt was in decline and not capable of making a SB run, although they maybe could be a playoff team. This gave him 2 choices. Completely scrap and attempt to build from the ground up or continue adding pieces to keep the team competitive for the next year or two and pay the price down the road. With the exception of keeping Brett Favre at the helm, he chose the first option. Unfortunately, I do not think he can, nor should he choose option 1 if Favre is still on the roster.

I do believe that it all comes down to #4. If TT wanted to build from scratch he should have found a way to get Brett out of town, but if he truly wanted him to come back he shouldn't have relyed on so much youth(especially in the middle of the OL).

The way it stands now, the complete rebuilding cannot take place, as we have no idea what we have at QB for the future. By the same token, he is doing a disservice to Brett Favre, who can obviously still play, but has no hope with the team around him.

Hard to believe Spardo, but I totally agree with this post. MS's problem was he didn't get a good veteran receiver in GB, and instead drafted two rookies, JWalk and Ferguson. Rookies ALWAYS take time to get up to speed!

I don't think TT should have gone into full rebuild mode with Brett Favre around. It is a disservice to him. He could have tried to compete for 2-3 more years, and who knows, this year or next the Pack could have been in the SB, if TT would have gone about it the right way.

And then, when Favre retires...REBUILD THE TEAM. Why he was in an all fired hurry to scrap and rebuild now, I'll never know. But it's not like the fans would have turned against him if he tried to win now with Favre at the helm, and then rebuild the Packers.

Well, some may have turned on him, and I think you all know who you are.
 

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