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[DEBATE] Staff

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Zero2Cool, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. spardo62

    spardo62 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Your response is laughable. The roster and team were in decline when TT took over. This was caused by poor drafting and FA signings(under Sherman) and the fact that as the team had put up winning records they were never able to draft in the upper half. Now, has TT done all he could have done to field a respectable team - probably not(Whale or Riviera, Walker, Longwell). However, this team was set to drop no matter what moves would have been made when Thompson assumed the regins. His actions or inactions thus far have greatly accelerated the process, but he can not be held entirely accountable for the fact that the Packers are currently in decline and would have been no matter what(sure they may have been able to win 8 or 9 last year and the same this year with certain moves, but that still would not have enabled a playoff run and likely would have made the bottom feeding come a year or two later).
     
  2. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson



    And you called my response Laughable? So MS screwed up when he WON GAMES?

    You are right Spardo, MS should have just tanked it so we could have drafted higher and got better players.


    This is the most RIDICULOUS argument EVER!
     
  3. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    26-0 at home is one hellava drop "from last year". That score is still in-excusable, no matter what the justification !!! We had injuries all around us last year and the team did better than this !!
     
  4. Cdnfavrefan

    Cdnfavrefan Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Wow didn't take this thread long to pile up the pages. It's kinda tough coming in today to add thoughts to all the threads cause it feels like coming to the morgue to identify the body. Right now I don't even feel angry about the player mistakes management has made but I'm left to wonder if TT's greatest downfall will be letting Jim Bates go and hiring this coaching staff. It is early but losing Bates to me hurts more then any player
     
  5. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Bruce had a good post on how the Bears did basically the very same thing we are doing back when the brought L. Smith on board and ended up 5-11 that first year.

    You will not be able to measure how this team is going to do in becoming a winner until you compare the first four or five games to the last four or five.

    Starting out slow, getting a little bit better, and finishing the season playing good is what is important to see and being realistic.

    Calling for somebody's head is a little early. I guess Tampa should fire Popeye, eh? If you want to measure by one game they have gone completely in the wrong direction from last year.
     
  6. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson



    Big Difference here. Gruden has shown that he is a Winner. MM and TT have not gave us 1 reason to believe they can do anything more than 4-12
     
  7. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Pyle.....you are overlooking the fact that in addition to coaching the team, MS also functioned as GM. Yeah...he won some games with an aging roster...a roster that had no appreciable upside over the last years of his tenure. But he failed to provide this team with the depth that would allow for continuity without going through a real rough couple years. The fact of the matter is, the starters for departed players must be cultivated internally, for the most part. And that is where he failed.

    Please feel free to acknowledge both of MS's responsibilities when providing a critique of his performance. Anything less is simply dishonest.
     
  8. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson


    This is simply basedon OPINION alone.

    TT dismantled the roster! How do you know that we would have not been competitive had we not gotten rid of all MS's so called mistakes?


    If this team still had Wahle, JWalk,Longwell,Diggs,Chatman,Roman,Fisher,etc we could still be a decent team. We will never KNOW for sure. Those are the sameguys that we had when MS took us to the playoffs year in and year out. You say the guys on our team can improve with time THEN the same can be said about FISHER,CHATMAN, etc.


    What don't you get. For all the CRAPPY moves MS supposedly made his teams were sure good enough to win Division titles and make the Playoffs. Then TT comes in, dismantles the team, and we go 4-12 and get shutout at home.


    Then you blame Sherman for it......it makes no sense! Maybe if SHERMAN's guys were still around we wouldn't be so damn bad!
     
  9. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    I am merely pointing out the obvious......MS as GM was responsible for the roster...the same roster that had no depth across the board.

    You have to acknowledge that he had 2 resonsibilities over the last 4 years of his tenure..and as GM Sherman was always appeasing MS the coach with the talent he believed he needed at the moment, but at the expense of the future.

    The inevitable decline was merely put off a few years as MS, good or bad, lived and died for the year he was in to get Favre, and himself, a SB.
     
  10. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson


    But his roster, with your opinion on depth or not, won division titles

    This isn't Sherm's team anymore, it's TT's. The blame is on him.
     
  11. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    TT has his share of blame, no doubt. But by your logic a race car team that inhereted a friggin Ford Tempo should be competitive?

    Again...an aging roster...held together, argueably, too long...in an effort to get back to the SB during Brett's final year.

    Admirable as his intentions may have been, it does not change the fact that the team was left with little "future" from their living only in the "present" during MS's tenure. Every draft day trade (giving picks away) was done to get the players to put him and Favre over the top....and it never happened.

    I am willing to acknowledge the failings and the successes of TT...however I don't view the failings as harshly as you. If/when you ever acknowledge the roster situation that was inhereted...no LBs of worht except Barnett, Al Harris the ONLY decent player in the secondary...a pedestrian D line,,,but with room to improve, aging OL on 2 of the interior 3 spots and no replacements on the roster.........you get the idea.
     
  12. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    digs...I love ya man but Sherman is gone. If we all say "OK Sherman sucked" will that make you stop blaming him when we want to discuss TT? Seriously, this team is about TT and MM now....not Mike Sherman.
     
  13. GakkofNorway

    GakkofNorway Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    The downfall had started long ago when the packers came of the NFC north title, it wasn't like, alright TT took over and after 1 week we were the worst team in the NFC North, this was going to happen not matter who the packers had employed as their GM.

    GM Sherman had raped and exploited the superbowl champion team for many years, and the talent slowly but surely slipped away. When TT was brought in, the Packers were already in a grave situation.
     
  14. ahaug82

    ahaug82 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Sherman is gone, but the draft picks that he made are still here (or not... Jamal Reynolds?). Yeah, this is TT's team now, but Sherman's decisions are still affecting the team. Sherman sucked as a GM, and that resulted in a decline of talent on the roster. TT has to build up the talent through the draft. That takes time. Yeah, TT has made some mistakes, but he isn't a complete failure until he has had enough time to prove that he is a failure. Give his draft picks a couple of years to develop.
     
  15. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    By your logic, DePack...if you travel by car a hundred miles to your destination, the destination is the only thing that is real...the hundred miles between start and finish never occurred.

    Yes, Sherman and his merry group of idiots is gone, but for you and pyle to sit here and pretend his perpetual blunders as GM have no affect on today's team is far below the marginal intellect I know you are able to generate!! LOL

    Are some of his mistakes still on the roster? No...they have been purged....but they took the roster spot of guys who might have been players.

    What about the players we never had because he treated draft picks as having little value....evidenced by the frequency with which he gave them away...typically for nothing in return (James Lee and Donnell Washington come to mind.) How about his drafts? He struck gold 3 times to my estimation...Walker, Barnett and Kampmann...then again we had many more James Lees and Joey Thomas'.

    You are happy to rest your arguement on MS the HC getting to the playoffs while conveniently forgetting he also left this roster barren.
     
  16. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    its not worth it . .. . .
     
  17. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson


    Some would LOVE to see him run out on a rail (good luck) now, before the the fruits of this labor bares.

    I guess lost to them is the fact that the higher ups that made this move were more than just a little upset with how this team had been managed personnel wise by '04.

    TT made it very clear to them the approach he was going to take in building this team and made no bones about the fact it wouldn't be a finished product overnight.

    Those above TT are fine with what is being done here and see the virtue in the plan. Don't look for him to be saying goodbye to GB anytime soon.

    As far as the coaching changes goes. They lived thru the firing of one of the best ""D" coordinators in the league for a complete idiot.

    They have the patience to stay the course and they will see this through.
     
  18. majikman

    majikman Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    This is a good point.

    I sure wish the Pack could have kept some of these players.
     
  19. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Diggs - An injury waiting to happen with no speed or change of direction left. Hey, isn't he already injured??

    Chatman - Really now...all he did was not fumble...his limit was maxxed...and was not going to give anything more than what he did. Unspectacular play..in spite of the fact he came on as a WR last year.

    Roman - Please....the guy could not spell angle, let alone take the proper one to intercept a player. But then, he had to hit someone...which he clearly had a distaste for....although not as pronounced as his distaste for competition.

    Fisher - Maxxed talent, average 2nd (at best) or 3rd. Absolutely replaceable.

    Walker - Got rid of a TO clone and received 5 draft picks in return.

    Longwell - regardless of money, he was off to the dome to chase the Pro HOF...same with Vinatieri.

    Wahle - Sure...any player can be signed regardless of the cap....but at what expense. Look at the 49ers and Dallas for the big, and more importantly, prolonged, dropoff that occurs when you pull a "Wimpy"..."I will gladly pay you Tuesssssday, for a hamburger today." Just a matter of when you want to pay the piper.
     
  20. 4packgirl

    4packgirl Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    ok, let me bottom line this for you...

    IF all of this is shermans fault...he's gone.

    IF all of this is TT/MM's fault...they'll be gone soon as well.

    to argue about it is an exercise in futility. last time i checked, i'm not the one who can hire or fire anyone in the packers organization. & something tells me that the 'powers-that-be' aren't reading our posts trying to make their decisions based on our opinions! (hard as that may be for some of you to realize :wink: )

    here's to winning a few games this season & getting past...well, THE PAST!
    :pals:
     
  21. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson



    You are using YOUR OPINION as fact! Anyone can spin EVERY player in the NFL into a good/bad player. Let me do a few Steelers

    Roethlisburger - Average guy, not asked to do much. Just doesn't make mistakes ALA Chatman

    Parker - Can't run between the Tackles

    Ward - Not very fast

    ON and ON and ON


    The fact is with the guys MENTIONED above we MADE THE PLAYOFFS and WON DIVISION TITLES!

    Your opinion on them means ZERO ZIP ZILCH. You cannot take away from WINS period! Thats what MS's teams did. So if these guys were all mistakes how the HELL did we post winning records, year in and year out?


    The downfall came when Ted Thompson took over. Your arguing that MS as a GM couldn't have continued winning is based on NOTHING! It certainly isn't based on fact.


    It's really quite simple. If you think MS fielded crappy teams with no depth and went 10-6 consistently than it HAS TO BE fair to say that TT is fielding even crappier teams with even less depth than MS. What is so hard to understand here? If TT is filling out the roster spots with supposed "YOUNG TALENT" to replace MS's "AVERAGE TALENT" than it would seem to me we would at least have a record similar to what MS gave us. If this is the case I sure wish TT would go after some "AVERAGE TALENT" guys so we could go back to winning Divisions and having Playoff appearances instead of getting DESTROYED 26-0 on our home field!
     
  22. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Mike Sherman took over a team built by Ron Wolf that could go to the Super Bowl. I don't think anyone should question Sherman as a Head coach. As a Head Coach he was good. As a GM he wasn't that good. 9 of 27 players he drafted are in the NFL right now. That's what I heard on the radio. That's horrible. He really didn't sign any free agents. Brought in Terry Glenn for a year and traded him off. Mark Roman and Hannible Navies are the only guys he brought in as a free agent. He inherited players brought in by hopefully a soon to be Hall of Fame GM in Ron Wolf. Now in 2 years if 9 of probably the 40 guys TT drafts are in the NFL then a change definitely should be made.

    TT took over a team with a bad cap situation and a team that was aging and on decline. Sherman took over a team primed for the Super Bowl. Now TT's job has to be to fix the mess. So far he hasn't done anything but bring in his own mess but he's been here for only 2 years. We'll see what he does in the next couple of seasons because like it or not he's probably going to be here at least 2 more seasons.
     
  23. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Could we start to classify 'Sherman did this, Thompson won't do this' as political and get an auto lock?

    Different teams, in different times. Move on already this is sickening having to read this time and time again.
     
  24. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson

    Um...pyedriver...hate to point out the obvious...but YOUR assertion that with these castaways we would be a contender is also an OPINION. Everything on here is basically an opinion.

    FACT: We lost some players we wuld have liked to keep.

    OPINION: IF we kept them we would be on a winning track.


    Don't put words in my mouth about Big Ben, Fast Willie and Hines Ward.

    Funny...your OPINION is gospel...any one else's is hogwash.

    Are you here to tell me that Diggs has something left? Because if you are...it is merely an opinion.

    Are you here to tell me that if we had just kept the players lost we would be in any better shape? Again, an opinion.

    Are you here to tell me that we did not turn JW into 5 players? Um, fact.

    Your OPINION of yourself is awefully high, isn't it!!

    You know, pyledriver...enjoy the debate. I have no idea why you feel so compelled to have the best, loudest and final word on every issue. There are a lot of OPINIONS on this board...many from very astute and observant football fans who...GASP....are different from yours.

    The only difference in our opinions is that you somehow believe yours to be dogma on all things Packers. Be open to others positions and enjoy a bit....there is no reason to get all up in people's faces with your big CAPS statements and pitbull attitude.
     
  25. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: Ted Thompson


    Then Don't....You notice the title to this thread is "TED THOMPSON" right? You are not required to click on it if you don't want to read about "Ted Thompson"

    What else is thier to talk about? Our EXCITING, PROMISING upcoming season?
     

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