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[DEBATE] Staff

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Zero2Cool, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. tonytokes

    tonytokes Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    because he had no clue if favre was coming back or not. believe it or not, that has a lot to do with his ability or inability to sign free agents that want to come together with favre and potentially make a last run at it.

    in fact, most people were saying that brett WASNT coming back so if im a GM im putting my eggs more in that basket than any other direction. what else should he have done? it's not like he could have sat around and waited as the other teams were making moves and then jump in late in the game to take back momentum.

    it just doesnt work that way and as much as i love our boy favre, he really f'd us up in making everyone wait that long. limbo isnt conducive to action, that's for sure.
     
  2. majikman

    majikman Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    That's bullshit.

    You could just as easily say that TT waited around and didn't sign anyone in FA in the hope that Favre would retire, and he could go about rebuilding the team "in his image".

    Why they didn't sit down and honestly talk to one another, we'll never know. But it seems like it didn't happen. To put it all on Favre is just plain wrong. Maybe TT didn't want to try to build a winner with Favre, but didn't want to come out and say it. Didn't want to show his hand.

    Did you ever think about that?
     
  3. tonytokes

    tonytokes Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    No. I never thought about that.

    Why?

    Because TT building a winner doesn't just happen because TT wants to build a winner. Every team in the NFL wants to build a winner but not every player in the league wants to play for every team.

    We were a team that went 4-12 with a Hall of Fame quarterback. If I'm a free agent with high character who thinks less about money and more about winning and I have no idea if Favre is coming back (hrm, could they be even WORSE than a 4-12 team?) then I'm not too excited about going to basically Canada to play football in a city that is under 100,000 people, freezing cold and no nightlife whatsoever.

    Yeah, I think Pickett was a good signing. Woodson is washed up and was looking for a paycheck, could care less about winning and definitely knows his performance wont warrant him having to play out the rest of his contract before a cut and well, Manual is just an average starter (if that), making above average money. I believe, though, that TT put some effort into it but I don't know, not getting a ton of bites from guys who want to win.

    I own a business where I do a lot of "signing" or recruiting if you will and being in a city like Atlanta, there is a lot of competition and a lot of companies promising a lot of things. Often times these companies can offer more immediate rewards as far as salary, contributions, work experience and generally a more rewarding/successful environment. Sometimes not, but it's pretty obvious how winning factors into what I do and if you up the ante and change thousands to millions, I can't imagine those factors diminishing at all.

    GMs are judged by how well their team does. Period. There often isnt much time to wait around and build a team in your image as you say. I think signing Robinson, Picket, Manual and Woodson just goes to show that. Compared to most NFL teams, we had to be in the top 30% of FA activity but there isn't a lot of TT PP image people in that lineup. Just desperate attempts to show that he's trying to build a winner right now.

    Now I dont think his priorities are in place as evidenced by his lack of attention to the front line but effort was put in for some changes whether you agree with the moves or not.

    My whole point is really that no one wants to play for a loser. No one. Only a certain type of character will go to whoever gives them the biggest paycheck and I also think that player isn't often one who contributes most to a winning attitude on a team. Add to the mix that there was no idea that Favre was coming back and losing looked even more inevitable with winning pushed back even more years.

    Would you have called TT back? Take away my Packer fandom and I can matter of factly tell you that I wouldnt.

    2c.
     
  4. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: TT vs MS
     
  5. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    All rhetoric aside, I just don't think TT is a very good evaluator of talent. If I'm right, he won't last long as an NFL GM. They never do (except for Millen in Detroit).
     
  6. ahaug82

    ahaug82 Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    The salary cap situation didn't help either. He really had no choice but to let guys go so he could get some cap space back. Yeah, he should have kept Wahle, but he really couldn't afford to. That goes back to Sherman as well.
     
  7. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS


    I agree with whatLare posted. Salary Cap has little to do with being terrible at evaluating talent
     
  8. ahaug82

    ahaug82 Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    #1. I believe the salary cap has at least a little to do with how much money you can spend on players. I could be wrong though. :roll:

    #2. I guess if Lare thinks that TT can't evaluate talent, it must be true, right? :lol:
     
  9. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    :pulls up right beside Ryan:

    AADP says: "Hey Ryan, I brought popcorn! $50 says tromadz will get banned first in this thread :wink: " :lol:

    KMAC, that was friggin hilarious.
     
  10. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    Trom knew that if he said a thing he'd get banned. Why do you think he hasn't posted an argument AADP?
     
  11. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    Since Sherman was unable to get the team over the hump, even with Favre at QB, apparently Thompson decided that he couldn't get them over the hump either. Signing big-name free agents was not an option because it took all our cap room just to keep the players we already had. So Thompson decided to turn over the roster. He had to know that trading Favre would be a public relations disaster, so I doubt that he even considered it. And he may be hoping Favre sticks around a couple more years till the young talent develops.

    I don't have a problem with Thompson's basic approach. Whether he has the skills to do the job is a question for another thread, and there are plenty of those threads already. He hasn't won me over yet, by any means, but time will tell.

    *Merging -Arrow
     
  12. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: TT vs MS


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: TT vs MS

    You owe Ryan $50.
     
  14. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Overall TT/MM opinions...

    Please state your overall opinions of TT and/or MM and/or anyone in management in this thread.

    This is now the official thread for any debate of TT/MM between those who feel he has done a good job and those who feel he has done a poor job. Hopefully this will keep the TT/MM debate out of every thread, and ease some of the tension on this forum.

    It takes a 6th grader to start a name-calling pissing match. It takes a man to use facts/opinions together in a well mannered and RESPECTFUL tone to make a point that will get others to change their view. Please don't think anyless of an individual as a Packer fan because they think differently.

    I ask you to PLEASE keep it clean. People come here for great discussion, not pissing matches. Any off-topic or incorrect posts will be removed immideatly, and may lead to possible further actions.

    Respect is a 2 way street, if you want some then you must be willing to dish it out also.
     
  15. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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  16. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs. ...

    Thanks Z, lets start anew folks. PLEASE keep the childish stuff out of this.
     
  17. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Re: Overall TT/MM opinions...

    A quick reminder to all. :)
     
  18. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs ... (Overall impressions of TT/MM/etc.)

    My favorite post against TT ever. Lare was the author


    And I will add


    He's the one that brought up "Packer People" only to sign Koren Robinson

    He's the one that let our best FB go only to find out Willy is on the decline and now is resorting to practice squad guys as the answer

    He's the one that hired an experienced coach to lead inexperienced youth

    He's the one who traded our best back-up RB for another back-up RB after Gado worked in the system all training camp



    Theres more but listing TT's shortcomings is like running a 25k race IMO.
     
  19. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    You very well could be right. Next year is the Judgement year. I think (example) if the Packers are 4-12 this year then fail to get to 500 next year then he needs to go.

    If this is the case then Green Bay wouldn't have of had a good GM since Ron Wolf and in my opinion Ron Wolf should be apperciated a lot more than he currently is. 2 poor talent evaulators in a role would really set this team back and the "dark ages" would truly be here. :(
     
  20. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS


    Then again though, this is opinion
     
  21. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    It's an opinion much like your opinion of Ted Thompson. If TT does pretty much live up to what you think of him then yes between Thompson's tenure in building a team and Sherman's tenure in building a team it could quite possibly set this team back for a long time.

    That’s why I hope if it is another bad year this year and next, Jones will be fast to make a change instead of lingering like the Lions have with Matt Millen.
     
  22. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS



    Again, this is opinion and yes it is similar to that of my opinion of TT. I just don't think so low of Sherman. I see Sherman taking the blame for TT which I disagree with.

    TT inherited a playoff team and began dismantling and now has a good majority of his guys running the show. Now it's time for him to produce or be considered a failure.

    I don't care for all the spin with Sherman. With the guys he fielded we made the playoffs. How or why is unimportant to me. You can spin any GM's record to fit an argument. The big difference is sometimes you have to spin it to look WORSE than it was VS. spinning it to look BETTER than it was.


    I will take the GM who has the better record because it speaks for itself alot more clearly than the other guy who is getting excuses made for.
     
  23. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs ... (Overall impressions of TT/MM/etc.)

    pyle, would you say the playoffs team of Sherman (which did make the playoffs) was good enough to compete and have a realistic shot at the SuperBowl?

    pyle, could this be viewed as sort of the Indians in baseball a short while after 2000. They had a team to get them into the playoffs in a weak division, their team had a few stars on it too. However it was decided the team couldn't make a serious run with the players it had, and so they blew it up and decided to rebuild. Do you think this may have been TT's strategy?
     
  24. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Re: [DEBATE] Thompson Vs ... (Overall impressions of TT/MM/etc.)

    Also pyle, since you coach football, how would you relate your experience to TT.

    For example you have a really bad incoming class of 'talent" if you will, and your previous incoming talent wasn't that good either, so now you have a collection of not so hot talent. Is there a way you work around that, or accept it for what it is and do as much as you can while knowing you can't go too far in terms of wins?
     
  25. majikman

    majikman Cheesehead

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    Re: TT vs MS

    The the excuse will be..

    "But Aaron Rodgers is a rookie..give him time."

    The question is, how much time are you going to allow him?
     

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