Dan Carpenter released by the Dolphins...

[GoPGo]

He had 1 above average year out of 6. That usually gets a guy a vet minimum contract or a trip to the bubble.

If he doesn't earn the job, he'll be replaced. If he earns it, he'll stay. Plain and simple.

 

[adambr2]

Here's another fact. He hit 86% in 2011. I see no reason he can't regain that, just like Longwell did in 2004.

Cool, so that's going to be your reasoning? That he should stay based on one above average year? With 5 years where he didn't even hit 80%?

Longwell is a very poor comparison. He had one really dreadful year (2001), where he was 64.5%. He had been at 80% or higher, (80%, 88%, 83%, 87%) up until that year. I have no idea what he "regained" in 2004 seeing as how he was 82.4% in 2002, 88.5% in 2003, and 85.7% in 2004.

Crosby doesn't hold a candle to Longwell, accuracy-wise.

 

[TJV]

Further, Crosby's has 2 years left on his deal that had a $3 mil signing bonus. Cutting him now will cost $1.2 mil in dead cap money. In the old days, when cap $ didn't carry over, it wouldn't be an issue with the current cap cushion. Nowadays, dead cap is real money that could be used next year for somebody else.

rotoworld has Crosby’s contract as a 5-year deal signed in July of 2011 with $3M bonus and workout bonuses of $150K/year in years 2-5. His 2013 salary is $2.4M. 3 years of accelerated bonus is $1.8M so if they can take the cap hit this season, they save $600K minus the $150K (I assume they already paid him) on the cap.

 

[GoPGo]

Longwell is a very poor comparison.

You're right, he had a weak leg and struggled to get the ball to the 5 yard line on kickoffs. No comparison. My bad.

 

[adambr2]

You're right, he had a weak leg and struggled to get the ball to the 5 yard line on kickoffs. No comparison. My bad.

You still refuse to get it, and continue to either ignore the numbers and cold hard stats and/or make up lame excuses for them, so really, what's the point?

I feel like I must be arguing with Mason's mother or father, because no one else could be this far removed from reality as to how well Mason Crosby has performed in his career.

 

[HardRightEdge]

rotoworld has Crosby’s contract as a 5-year deal signed in July of 2011 with $3M bonus and workout bonuses of $150K/year in years 2-5. His 2013 salary is $2.4M. 3 years of accelerated bonus is $1.8M so if they can take the cap hit this season, they save $600K minus the $150K (I assume they already paid him) on the cap.

Minus what they pay his replacement.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Pure fiction. He's made nearly every kick he's attempted since Family Night.

SO what. Wait until the regular season starts and he starts shanking the ball again - come on.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Oh and just as we are having this discussion JSOnline comes out with an article that is pro-Crosby. My goodness, at what point does the team take a chance on something else other than a mediocre shank-o-matic FG kicker.

 

[GoPGo]

You still refuse to get it, and continue to either ignore the numbers and cold hard stats and/or make up lame excuses for them, so really, what's the point?

I feel like I must be arguing with Mason's mother or father, because no one else could be this far removed from reality as to how well Mason Crosby has performed in his career.

Then maybe you better get your resume together because apparently Mike McCarthy "refuses to get it" too since he very recently made this comment:

"I like the way Mason Crosby has responded since Family Night. He's stroking the football with a lot more consistency. That's all he really needs to do. He has tremendous leg speed for a kicker. He's very talented. I like the groove that he's in."

What the hell is that moron thinking?!

 

[adambr2]

Then maybe you better get your resume together because apparently Mike McCarthy "refuses to get it" too since he very recently made this comment:

"I like the way Mason Crosby has responded since Family Night. He's stroking the football with a lot more consistency. That's all he really needs to do. He has tremendous leg speed for a kicker. He's very talented. I like the groove that he's in."

What the hell is that moron thinking?!

Seriously? Though I don't agree with the amount of patience MM has had in Crosby, I do understand coach-speak.

Coaches talk. MM will gladly tell Crosby that he thinks he is the greatest kicker in NFL history if he thinks that will give him the confidence to start putting the ball through the uprights.

What do you expect him to say, "Crosby sucks and better get his act together if he wants to keep his job?"

I suppose you have all the confidence in the world in Graham Harrell, then?

While I disagree with how much patience we have shown in Crosby, I do trust that management is doing their due diligence in research, comparisons, and analysis in their decision of whether or not to keep Mason this year, a decision that HASN'T been made yet.

You on the other hand have given nothing but some gibberish theory about a disproportionate amount of 55 plus yard field goals skewing his percentage, a theory which was quickly disproven by others here. You have yet to provide any sound reason for your viewpoints or respond to most of the logic already given by me and others.

 

[GoPGo]

Seriously? Though I don't agree with the amount of patience MM has had in Crosby, I do understand coach-speak.

Coaches talk. MM will gladly tell Crosby that he thinks he is the greatest kicker in NFL history if he thinks that will give him the confidence to start putting the ball through the uprights.

What do you expect him to say, "Crosby sucks and better get his act together if he wants to keep his job?"

LOL That's pretty much exactly what he said two weeks ago after Family Night when he said, "He’s definitely got to do better than that, because that’s not going to cut it." He didn't mince words then, so why would he do it now? McCarthy speaks plainly and doesn't play those media word games. In all his time here, he never has (although Mike Sherman did it all the time.) He made those comments praising Crosby the other day because he MEANT them. If he didn't, he wouldn't have said it.

While I disagree with how much patience we have shown in Crosby, I do trust that management is doing their due diligence in research, comparisons, and analysis in their decision of whether or not to keep Mason this year, a decision that HASN'T been made yet.

So are you going to continue that trust if/when they go against your wishes provided that Mason keeps it up like he has the past two and a half weeks? Or have you already determined that he has no business in a Packer uniform regardless of all the due diligence in research, comparisons and analysis that TT, MM, SS, and the scouting department will have done?

You have yet to provide any sound reason for your viewpoints or respond to most of the logic already given by me and others.

Of what logic do you speak? LOGIC dictates that NFL teams aren't as fickle as fans are. LOGIC dictates that they know a LOT more about their players than fans do. LOGIC dictates that you don't throw out a talented player because of a 2 month slump. LOGIC dictates that the Dolphins had a damn good reason why they weren't happy with Carpenter.

 

[adambr2]

LOL That's pretty much exactly what he said two weeks ago after Family Night when he said, "He’s definitely got to do better than that, because that’s not going to cut it." He didn't mince words then, so why would he do it now? McCarthy speaks plainly and doesn't play those media word games. In all his time here, he never has (although Mike Sherman did it all the time.) He made those comments praising Crosby the other day because he MEANT them. If he didn't, he wouldn't have said it.

So again, you trust that Graham Harrell is a quality backup QB? Because for years, he's had nothing but glowing things to say about him.

So are you going to continue that trust if/when they go against your wishes provided that Mason keeps it up like he has the past two and a half weeks? Or have you already determined that he has no business in a Packer uniform regardless of all the due diligence in research, comparisons and analysis that TT, MM, SS, and the scouting department will have done?

Yes, I will, because that's what Packer fans do. If that's the route they go, I will trust that in the end they felt that they acted in the best interests of the team, and not in anyone's personal interests. I will pray that Mason rebounds and doesn't get the yips at the end of some huge games or heaven forbid, cost us a playoff game. I will cheer for Mason to prove me wrong and have a huge season and make 85% of his FGs and put all this talk to rest.

 

[GoPGo]

So again, you trust that Graham Harrell is a quality backup QB? Because for years, he's had nothing but glowing things to say about him.

Please stop tossing this red herring around. Harrell has nothing to do with Crosby and vice-versa. My point was that MM didn't mince words two weeks ago, so why would he do it now? That simply doesn't make any sense, especially in light of how he has performed since then.

Either way, it's time to get this preseason crap over with and get on to real football.

 

[12theTruth]

McCarthy had no choice but to answer the question regarding Crosby's meltdown on Family Night. It was the Number 1 question journalists were asking the next day. And if McCarthy hadn't answered it in the manner he did other player's would have been given the impression a pathetic display of game performance is tolerated. But given McCarthys history, he has pretty much engaged in "coach speak" relating to Mason Crosby's performance. Especially throughout last season's struggles.

In my opinion, by not drafting a FG kicker and not bringing in an A lister free agent placekicker, Thompson is content on going through the season with Crosby. Must feel that he is not so big of a liability that he will cost of wins. But Ted is wrong on this one as Crosby had a big hand in 2 of our losses last season.

 

[Raptorman]

Well you can write him off. Signed by the Cardinals.

 

[adambr2]

Please stop tossing this red herring around. Harrell has nothing to do with Crosby and vice-versa. My point was that MM didn't mince words two weeks ago, so why would he do it now? That simply doesn't make any sense, especially in light of how he has performed since then.

Either way, it's time to get this preseason crap over with and get on to real football.

You're not even trying to understand. You just take whatever is discussed and manage to twist it to fit whatever viewpoint that you're trying to argue. So, why bother? No need anymore to keep re-hashing the same arguments anymore, really.

 

[adambr2]

Well you can write him off. Signed by the Cardinals.

I'm not surprised. Carpenter is a very solid kicker. Absolute money (96%) for his career under 40 yards.

That's all I'm looking for in my kicker, really. I don't need the cannon leg, we've all seen that Masthay can boot kickoffs well into the endzone just as well. Just give me a guy that I can watch trot out for a 38 yard attempt without having to sit at the edge of my seat in nervous anticipation.

I'd actually prefer not to be trying longer field goals anyway unless the game is on the line or it's at the end of the half. We've got too good of an offense to be bringing the FG kicker in for a 50 yard try on 4th and 2 from the 33.

 

[GoPGo]

You're not even trying to understand. You just take whatever is discussed and manage to twist it to fit whatever viewpoint that you're trying to argue. So, why bother? No need anymore to keep re-hashing the same arguments anymore, really.

So wait, you keep bringing in Graham Harrell as a red herring and I'm the one twisting things? C'mon man.

 

[GoPGo]

McCarthy had no choice but to answer the question regarding Crosby's meltdown on Family Night. It was the Number 1 question journalists were asking the next day. And if McCarthy hadn't answered it in the manner he did other player's would have been given the impression a pathetic display of game performance is tolerated. But given McCarthys history, he has pretty much engaged in "coach speak" relating to Mason Crosby's performance.

I see, so when McCarthy said he was happy with Crosby's performance since Family Night, he was lying. Gotcha. I don't buy the coachspeak BS because his performance since Aug 3 matches McCarthy's words. If MM had said that and Crosby had only hit 70% of his kicks since then, you might be on to something, but that's not the case.

In my opinion, by not drafting a FG kicker and not bringing in an A lister free agent placekicker, Thompson is content on going through the season with Crosby. Must feel that he is not so big of a liability that he will cost of wins. But Ted is wrong on this one as Crosby had a big hand in 2 of our losses last season.

Of course he occasionally has a hand in a loss. So does every other kicker/QB/WR/LB/CB etc. If we lose a game where Cobb drops a ball in the endzone, then he had a hand in that loss. If Rodgers throws an INT and we lose that game, then he had a hand in it. To say otherwise would be silly.

 

[adambr2]

So wait, you keep bringing in Graham Harrell as a red herring and I'm the one twisting things? C'mon man.

Its not a 'red herring'. Its the point that what coaches speak about players is not always an accurate reflection of what you might see in a game. And just because they certainly know much more about them than us does not mean that one must personally agree with every decision they make. That's the point you fail tp understand.

 

[GoPGo]

Its not a 'red herring'. Its the point that what coaches speak about players is not always an accurate reflection of what you might see in a game.

A red herring is when you can't refute A on it's own merits, so you introduce B, which is similar, and refute that instead. Sorry, but that's what you did with Harrell. I pointed out that Crosby's performance since FN was consistent with MM's comments. Instead of arguing otherwise, you pointed out that some of MM's comments about Harrell may not have been consistent with his performance and because of that, you deemed MM's comments about Crosby a few days ago to be false. It doesn't work that way.

If MM's words didn't mirror what Crosby had done since Family Night (which was the context in which MM was speaking) then you might be onto something. But they did mirror each other. So the idea that MM was only saying it to "boost his confidence" falls flat. Now if Crosby had only hit 70% since Family Night and MM said that, you'd have point. But that's not the case.

 

[adambr2]

While I don't agree with the amount of patience shown in Crosby, I do try to see both sides of the issue and keep an open mind about it, respecting the amount of analysis and research that management has no doubt done in their decision-making process. On that note, here is an interesting article about Crosby:

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfcnorth&id=53734&src=desktop

The research is done by guys at MIT, who are certainly qualified minds. It attempts to take all variables into consideration evaluating kickers: distance, weather, etc.

It does conclude that Crosby is actually very underrated when all variables are considered. I'd have to have a better understanding of their math and formulas to really comment. It doesn't appear to pass the eye test to me, and other studies may have different conclusions, but sometimes analysis and the eye test don't always match up.

At the least, it does give me a better understanding of the thought process that goes into this. In any event, I do believe that the leash will be shorter this year and if he struggles, Mason will likely be replaced before it comes down to a playoff game.

 

[12theTruth]

While I don't agree with the amount of patience shown in Crosby, I do try to see both sides of the issue and keep an open mind about it, respecting the amount of analysis and research that management has no doubt done in their decision-making process. On that note, here is an interesting article about Crosby:

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfcnorth&id=53734&src=desktop

The research is done by guys at MIT, who are certainly qualified minds. It attempts to take all variables into consideration evaluating kickers: distance, weather, etc.

It does conclude that Crosby is actually very underrated when all variables are considered. I'd have to have a better understanding of their math and formulas to really comment. It doesn't appear to pass the eye test to me, and other studies may have different conclusions, but sometimes analysis and the eye test don't always match up.

At the least, it does give me a better understanding of the thought process that goes into this. In any event, I do believe that the leash will be shorter this year and if he struggles, Mason will likely be replaced before it comes down to a playoff game.

That's what I don't get. Almost everybody feels like Crosby will implode as the year goes along yet Thompson and to a larger degree McCarthy has the patience of a saint. Talk about hardcore loyalty. I wonder what Crosby has on these two It's far better to cut bait now than to risk a FG kicker change mid-season.

 

[adambr2]

Not a good day at all for Mason, 1 for 4 on the practice field. Every time you think he takes a step forward, he takes 2 more back. He certainly doesn't have this job locked up, even if it doesn't end up being Tavecchio either. I would have to think that MM's patience is wearing thin.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Well you can write him off. Signed by the Cardinals.

Lindell too, though I would not have wanted him.

TT snoozed so he losed.