Do7
Cheesehead
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2018
- Messages
- 2,141
- Reaction score
- 220
I blame Gary! XD
The Aaron Rodgers performance thread
- Thread starter XPack
- Start date
OldSchool101
Pack
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 14,304
- Reaction score
- 5,690
Has anyone realized the second Jeff Janis left we’ve been in a downward spiral?
(Protecting my head with both arms and ducking)Coincidence? Or not...Has anyone realized the second Jeff Janis left we’ve been in a downward spiral?
D
Deleted member 6794
Guest
Here's a link to the list from Over The Cap:
https://overthecap.com/career-earnings/
Most likely the only reason Brady isn't #1 is the fact that he was a sixth round draft pick (earning $560K over his fist two seasons in the league) while others were selected way earlier during a time when there was no rookie cap.
On the other hand, he won a Super Bowl in just his second season. And also his fourth and fifth. Meaning that he should have had a lot of leverage very early on to negotiate his salary.
Just for fun, I took that list and divided the numbers by years played. This doesn't account for inflation, so I'm not pretending this is some kind of definitive answer. But it isn't meaningless either. Peyton Manning is sixth on the list, and he played earlier than the others. Mostly I thought it was interesting so I'm putting it out there. I quit after Carson Palmer because it started to get into WRs and such.
The number in parentheses is year played, and it's followed by the average salary per year:
Ryan (11) 20,295,455
Stafford: (10) 17,800,000
Roethlisberger (15) 14,948,292
Rodgers: (14) 14,698,393
Manning E: (15) 14,266,000
Manning, P: (18) 13,761,889
Brees (18) 13,451,833.33 (repeating of course)
Rivers: (15) 13,410,000
Smith, A: (14) 12,785,714
Brady (19) 11,977,590
Palmer: (15) 11,500,000
D
Deleted member 6794
Guest
Actually Over The Cap has listed career inflated earnings as well which might present more interesting numbers on a per year average:
Peyton Manning 30.7 million
Ryan 28.5 million
Stafford 24.5 million
Eli Manning 22.8 million
Roethlisberger 21.8 million
Rivers 21.2 million
Rodgers 20.8 million
Palmer 20.7 million
Brees 20.6 million
Smith 20.2 million
Brady 19.9 million
H
HardRightEdge
Guest
Maybe it was Cousins getting that 3 year, $84 mil, fully guaranteed deal with Minnesota that broke the structure.
Usually a QB has to win games to get that big contract. While he put up decent numbers, 102 QB rating in 2015, 4900 yds in 2016, yada yada, Cousins had not demonstrated he has those winning intangibles in going 24-23-1 in his 3 full seasons as a starter in Washington. Minnesota took a step back last season to Cousins' typical performance at 8-7-1. This offseason, in a moment of weakness, Cousins affirmed just this; he has to demonstrate he can win more games. I'd say so given that contact and that defense. Minnesota should have thought about that before breaking the bank. Or maybe they did, which is why the deal was for 3 years, and not a longer deal with a big signing bonus with dead cap stretching out into years 4 and beyond. It's a lot of money without a great deal of confidence it would seem. An arm to do just enough on the offensive side to win the prize (the Flaco / Foles model?) before the young defenders get to second contracts and the window closes.
Or maybe it was Derek Carr that broke the structure with that 5 year/$125 mil extension after 2016. At least he was coming off a 12-3 record as a starter. But that's a ball control/game manager type coming off a broken fibula. If memory serves, that deal put Carr at the top of the heap momentarily.
Or maybe it was Stafford's 5 year/$135 mil deal after 2016, with a 51-58 career record to that point as a starter that bent the curve? He did have a 10 win and an 11 win season, so at least there's that. Lots of fireworks, a couple of years with big fantasy points, lots of inconsistency. Folks aound here got bent out of shape over Rodgers 62.3% completion percentage with all those throwaways, playing on gimped up knee with a bunch of rookie WRs and a new TE. Stafford's career completion percentage is 62.4%. Hope sells season tickets I guess.
It's not the top dogs getting to the top of the heap momentarily, as in the case of Rodgers now being equaled or surpassed, depending on how you look at it, by Wilson. It's the lesser lights getting to the top of the heap momentarily that bends the curve.
Last edited by a moderator:
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I would toss Jimmy Garoppolo's 5 year $137.5M deal into that pile as well. That deal to me was one of the more significant ones in showing that a team would basically pay top dollar for a very unproven QB. Now the story hasn't been fully written on Jimmy G, but so far it isn't looking like that great of a deal for the 49'ers.
D
Deleted member 6794
Guest
What??? You weren't impressed by his 0.0 passer rating in his first preseason game since suffering an injury last season???
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I saw that and I think some 49'er fans, rightfully so, are really worried that Lynch and the 9'ers made a mistake when they traded a 2nd round pick for JG and then eventually briefly made him the top paid player in the NFL. At the time of the trade, he had only 7 career starts in the NFL.
The pick wasn't that bad, but the amount of money was crazy for what I would call an unproven commodity. The only saving grace for the 49'ers, they had a ton of cap space at the time, so the contract was front loaded quite a bit and after this season, they can get out from under him pretty cheaply.
H
HardRightEdge
Guest
While big in headline numbers, Goroppolo's deal had a small signing bonus of $7 mil with the bulk of his guarantees in the first year roster bonus. The 49's can get out of this deal after year 2, after this season, with only $4.2 mil in dead cap and $22.4 million in cap savings if G. doesn't work out or the injury has some permanent affect.
In effect, this is a 2 year deal at about $60.5 mil (including all prorated signing bonus), with SF options on years 3 - 5 at about $27 mil for each of those years. While certainly not chicken feed on a two year basis, it does not come up to Cousins' 3 years fully guaranteed. If Garoppol is a top 10 QB this season and wins ballgames, which he's had a habit of doing in his brief period as a starter, the 49's will be happy to pay-as-you-go at those amounts for the following 1, 2 or 3 years.
It should be evident by now with the Rodgers example (and there have been other Packer examples on a smaller scale), big signing bonuses create silent guarantees into years past when the actual guarantees have all been paid. It's one thing to say your big contract QB isn't worth $30 mil in year 3 or 4 of a contract, but what are you going to do about it if the cap savings in cutting him is a big negative number in year 3? How do you afford to replace him? It would be like paying two starting QBs in that year. Cut him and draft and play a rookie? That's a tough pill to swallow.
Or if it is $15 mil or $10 mil in cap saving the next year, what kind of QB can you sign with that savings?
It's these signing bonuses that lead teams to keep some players who are clearly not worth their cap number. Sunk costs in that number don't yield the savings to justify parting ways.
Most pundits will talk about the amount of the guarantees as what matters. But those guarantees are not created equal. Guaranteed money concentrated in the first two years does not afford the kind of silent guarantee to the player that the whomping signing bonus provides prorated to the cap over 5 years.
OldSchool101
Pack
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 14,304
- Reaction score
- 5,690
I can give y’all 33,500,000 reasons..if you got a minute 
gbgary
Cheesehead
MLF (just a moment ago) "...we've given him all the freedom." looks like rodgers won. lol
PackAttack12
R-E-L-A-X
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2016
- Messages
- 6,499
- Reaction score
- 2,157
Or maybe the original idea of limiting Rodgers’ freedom at the line of scrimmage to two plays when he’s proven to be one of the best, and smartest, QBs of all time was foolish.
He’s getting the same freedom that other star quarterbacks in the NFL get at the line of scrimmage. That’s how it should be.
PackerfaninCarolina
Cheesehead
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2013
- Messages
- 4,162
- Reaction score
- 316
What a surprise, the fake news thread gets drudged up again
GleefulGary
Cheesehead
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2017
- Messages
- 5,012
- Reaction score
- 505
The freedom to change plays at the LOS, which we knew already.
And quite frankly, every good coach is giving Rodgers that option. That's logical.
Don't make this more of an issue than it is. And maybe use full quotes in the future.
Do7
Cheesehead
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2018
- Messages
- 2,141
- Reaction score
- 220
Gary get a grip! Only you would make this into a bigger deal than it is and make it seem as if Rodgers is trying to undermine the coach. I mean honestly this isn't a big deal. And future reference, use the full quotes as to what Matt said rather than taking small bits, in order to understand the context. I expect that kind of crap from Skip Bayless, not you.
Last edited:
gbgary
Cheesehead
i hear ya but i couldn't remember the rest of the quote and it doesn't change anything.
this issue wasn't fake news either. whether or not rodgers was going to run the system as designed, how much he was going to allow himself to change, etc., was a major question from the minute mccarthy was let go.
No it wasn't, because everyone knows a QB like Rodgers is going to be given leeway in EVERY SYSTEM with ANY COACH with half a brain that doesn't want to handcuff a Hall of fame QB to 1st grade material. Did you honestly think or do you think a QB of Rodgers caliber shouldn't have leeway to make a change?
You know what MLF's statement really meant? He was confident in his QB's grasp of the system to run it as he see's fit, when he see's it's time for a change. But to you, Rodgers and Murphy have dressed him down, turned him into a figure head, stripped him of his authority and made him less of a man with every single thing they do or say. It's gotten rather pathetic actually.
PackAttack12
R-E-L-A-X
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2016
- Messages
- 6,499
- Reaction score
- 2,157
Mondio bringing the heat!
Do7
Cheesehead
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2018
- Messages
- 2,141
- Reaction score
- 220
Let the congregation say Amen. I get you're skeptical Gary but seriously this whole Rodgers is undermining the head coach thing you're spewing is getting old with respect.
gbgary
Cheesehead
yes it was! his "coachablility" after undermining mccarthy (justified in his mind or not) was a huge deal. wondering if he would allow himself to be coached, to change, wasn't a made up narrative. it was a serious matter. it wasn't just changing plays either (although his freelancing was brought up). the offense already has options on each play built into it. everyone expected the two-minute offense to be his. more than that was taking a risk...the risk of going backwards. if they weren't going to end up reeling in his propensity to ignore open guys just to go deep (and ending up throwing it into the stands) why bother firing mccarthy? no wonder the defense was focused on so heavily. it's going to be under a heavy burden. seems it's going to be business as usual on O.
gbgary
Cheesehead
it isn't my narrative. it was everywhere. national media, local media, team members. you can't deny it happened. we saw it with our own eyes and heard it with our own ears coming from his own mouth.
lambeaulambo
Cheesehead
Maybe, JUST Maybe MM was a huge problem NOT giving AR the reigns to the offense as a whole, and now MLF is doing just that. Not the mark of a bad head coach necessarily, could be a huge turning point to the offense humming successfully.
MM and Rodgers had a very normal QB and headcoach relationship. There was nothing odd about it, nothing until we started losing. That's it. And now we all these people that need to be paid to be heard and they keep talking, talking talking and apparently you still listen?
Maybe you might want to look at our defensive players and production the past 5 years and re-think why it was drafted so heavily LOL. But to you it's because Rodgers is uncontrollable LOL
Brady and BB butt heads, Rodgers MM, Montana and Walsh, Favre and Holmgren. heck, half of Reids job was simply to play peacemaker between the 2 and you think this is unique to Rodgers and MM? The only thing that changed? We weren't winning. Pretty much everything said and done this offseason by every person involved with this has been so reasonable it's almost boring.
MLF basically puts the issue to bed, a HC standing up and saying this is a non-story, it's over and you still see it as an undressed, no power coach who lost a power struggle with his QB.
Last year was as much about not being able to step into a throw all year from what was likely a Tibial plateau fx as it was about Rodgers undermining MM to go deep. He avoided the middle of the field, that was obvious compared to other years, but think about why?
All of a sudden he's an uncontrollable selfish teammate? or he couldn't make those throws well? He floated some passes in the middle, why? He was floating most of his passes, why? because he couldn't step in. He rarely did last year, it probably ****ing hurt, a lot.
and he had nothing but youth on the field, you know what happens when youth makes a mistake in the middle of the field? bad things. Look at Lazard in the previous preseason game, stopped the route, INT. Moore did the same thing. There were plays last year youth did the same thing. Lofting passes deep and to outside were safer. He's a smart QB who did what likely gave them the best chance at winning far more than this talking head driven narrative of undermining the coach.
Maybe you might want to look at our defensive players and production the past 5 years and re-think why it was drafted so heavily LOL. But to you it's because Rodgers is uncontrollable LOL
Brady and BB butt heads, Rodgers MM, Montana and Walsh, Favre and Holmgren. heck, half of Reids job was simply to play peacemaker between the 2 and you think this is unique to Rodgers and MM? The only thing that changed? We weren't winning. Pretty much everything said and done this offseason by every person involved with this has been so reasonable it's almost boring.
MLF basically puts the issue to bed, a HC standing up and saying this is a non-story, it's over and you still see it as an undressed, no power coach who lost a power struggle with his QB.
Last year was as much about not being able to step into a throw all year from what was likely a Tibial plateau fx as it was about Rodgers undermining MM to go deep. He avoided the middle of the field, that was obvious compared to other years, but think about why?
All of a sudden he's an uncontrollable selfish teammate? or he couldn't make those throws well? He floated some passes in the middle, why? He was floating most of his passes, why? because he couldn't step in. He rarely did last year, it probably ****ing hurt, a lot.
and he had nothing but youth on the field, you know what happens when youth makes a mistake in the middle of the field? bad things. Look at Lazard in the previous preseason game, stopped the route, INT. Moore did the same thing. There were plays last year youth did the same thing. Lofting passes deep and to outside were safer. He's a smart QB who did what likely gave them the best chance at winning far more than this talking head driven narrative of undermining the coach.
Last edited:
