Cornerbacks

DoURant

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While I would be concerned about Jones and a full recovery from his ruptured achilles tendon, I wouldn't go so far as to say he "will get hurt all the time" because of it. I don't know Jones's complete college resume, but it appears he played in most if not all of the Huskies games as a freshman (13) , sophomore (13) and his final junior year (14). This one particular injury, if he fully recovers could land the Packers a top 15 player with a second round pick. I was hoping he might even fall to the 3rd round, but based on what is being said, the surgery was a a success and his recovery may allow him to play this year and he will probably go in the second round.
I agree, I would take Jones in the 2nd Rd. He could start the season on the PUP, play 2nd half of season. House only signed a 1 yr deal, he could be his replacement next yr if House doesn't resign. I would take any of them Washington DB's. King or even Budda Baker who considered a Nickle Corner/Safety and could replace Hyde....Getting 2 1st Rd talents in the draft would be great. I'd also be up for taking Mixon in the 3rd and getting 3, he's the best RB in the draft, he was suspended for a yr in college so he paid his price, IMO. It will be a fire storm at first, but if he addresses the situation head on, answers all the questions the first day, and then goes about his business and keeps his nose clean, things will subside. Being in GB might be a good place for him to start.
 

DoURant

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Absolutely agree with your take on draft picks. That's why Thompson should have addressed the need for a #1 cornerback in free agency.
The problem w/ that is the price you would have to pay to do that, the top guys all wanted $10M+. I think TT signed a #1, House will be probably be our #1 corner, don't know if I like the sound of that, but....
 

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and could replace Hyde
I'd be really disappointed to find out that Ted went into any round of the draft thinking "I've GOT to get someone to replace Micah." He was a competent backup DB that could play all over but really never shine at any. That is not a high priority on any team. It's more a "Gee, I invested in this guy, maybe he'll have value here" type decision.
 

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I'd be really disappointed to find out that Ted went into any round of the draft thinking "I've GOT to get someone to replace Micah." He was a competent backup DB that could play all over but really never shine at any. That is not a high priority on any team. It's more a "Gee, I invested in this guy, maybe he'll have value here" type decision.
I don't think anyone has any reason to believe that Thompson ever strays from his board.
 
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I agree, I would take Jones in the 2nd Rd. He could start the season on the PUP, play 2nd half of season. House only signed a 1 yr deal, he could be his replacement next yr if House doesn't resign. I would take any of them Washington DB's. King or even Budda Baker who considered a Nickle Corner/Safety and could replace Hyde....Getting 2 1st Rd talents in the draft would be great.

The Packers desperately need a cornerback capable of starting in week 1. I would only be fine with selecting Jones once that is addressed.

The problem w/ that is the price you would have to pay to do that, the top guys all wanted $10M+. I think TT signed a #1, House will be probably be our #1 corner, don't know if I like the sound of that, but....

Bouye only counts $5.5 million against the cap this season, which is $3.5 million less than what the Packers saved by releasing Shields. Even Gilmore has a cap hit of less than $9 million in 2017.

House is not a #1 cornerback.
 

DoURant

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This season the cap hit isn't the problem, its next yr...Bouye is 15.5 next yr and Gilmore is $12.6. That would leave us about $27- $30M in cap space for 2018, plus any that rolls over from this yr. Pending FA's next yr for us are HaHa (have a 5th yr option) Burnett, Adams, and Linsley, amongst others.

I don't think House is a #1, either....but on our roster right now, he might be the #1 corner.
 
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This season the cap hit isn't the problem, its next yr...Bouye is 15.5 next yr and Gilmore is $12.6. That would leave us about $27- $30M in cap space for 2018, plus any that rolls over from this yr. Pending FA's next yr for us are HaHa (have a 5th yr option) Burnett, Adams, and Linsley, amongst others.

Shields would have become a free agent in 2018 therefore the Packers would have had to either extend him or sign a free agent at that point anyway. I would have been fine with taking the cap hit a year from now for either of them.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Shields would have become a free agent in 2018 therefore the Packers would have had to either extend him or sign a free agent at that point anyway. I would have bern fine with taking the cap hit a year from now for either of them.

Currently the Packers have 7 CB's listed on the payroll. House, Randall, Rollins, Goodson, Gunter, Dorleant and Hawkins. Combined the 7 have a cap hit of $8.39M for 2017 ($1.2M ave/player). While you always hope that you can get great play out of young, cheap talent, I think that number tells you just how little TT has vested in the CB position and how much he is over relying on that small investment.
 
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Currently the Packers have 7 CB's listed on the payroll. House, Randall, Rollins, Goodson, Gunter, Dorleant and Hawkins. Combined the 7 have a cap hit of $8.39M for 2017 ($1.2M ave/player). While you always hope that you can get great play out of young, cheap talent, I think that number tells you just how little TT has vested in the CB position and how much he is over relying on that small investment.

Interestingly there are four other teams that even allocate even less cap space towards the cornerback position for the 2017 season.
 

DoURant

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Shields would have become a free agent in 2018 therefore the Packers would have had to either extend him or sign a free agent at that point anyway. I would have bern fine with taking the cap hit a year from now for either of them.
TT is in unchartered waters, he already signed 4 FA's this off season from other teams. Maybe he will still sign someone...not a lot out there (Revis, Flowers, Hall, McKelvin), but you never know. I would prefer Flowers out of the lot of them right now.
 
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TT is in unchartered waters, he already signed 4 FA's this off season from other teams. Maybe he will still sign someone...not a lot out there (Revis, Flowers, Hall, McKelvin), but you never know. I would prefer Flowers out of the lot of them right now.

Flowers suffered his fourth documented concussion last season. After what happened with Shields over the past few years there's no way the Packers should sign him.

I'm not excited about the other cornerbacks you mentioned either.
 

DoURant

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Flowers suffered his fourth documented concussion last season. After what happened with Shields over the past few years there's no way the Packers should sign him.

I'm not excited about the other cornerbacks you mentioned either.
If Flowers has had that many concussions, then I don't think I'd like him either. Wasn't aware of that
 

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Melifonwu is an intriguing prospect but unfortunately doesn't address the Packers most glaring weakness. Therefore I don't want the Packers to spend their first round pick on him and he will most likely be gone by the time the team is on the clock in thesecond.

I completely disagree with this sentiment, if Melifonwu is the best player available when the Packers are on the clock, and he DOES allow the Packers to address defensive weaknesses, I wouldn't write him off just so the team could reach for an OLB or CB.
 

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Flowers suffered his fourth documented concussion last season. After what happened with Shields over the past few years there's no way the Packers should sign him.

I'm not excited about the other cornerbacks you mentioned either.

Most recent SBNation mock has the Packers taking Tre'Davious White but what I'm more interested in is that the mock draft has Malik McDowell being taken by the Falcons AFTER the Packers pick White. Not sure about others, but I would EXTREMELY disappointed if the Packers passed on McDowell. He has prototypical size to play 3-4 DE and he could move inside on passing downs to pair very well with Mike Daniels. Yes, the Packers have more pressing needs at CB but passing on a potentially elite dlineman would be a huge mistake; for what it's worth, mockdraftables closest comparisons based on combine numbers for McDowell are Leonard Williams and Gerald freaking McCoy (that's some great company!). PFF's comparison for McDowell is Michael Johnson, DE for the Bengals who has been a very DE for many years.

White might turn out to be very good (he is an excellent prospect) but dlinemen are more valuable in the NFL, especially when you can get a great dlineman on a rookie contract because great dlinemen make a LOT of money when they get off their rookie deals (yes, corners do as well but not to the degree dlinemen do). One of the things that the Pats have been so good at over the years is emphasizing positions early in the draft that provide value on their rookie deals.

(Fyi, for those that aren't aware mockdraftable.com is AMAZING for getting an idea of athletic guys really are relative to others at their positions).
 
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I completely disagree with this sentiment, if Melifonwu is the best player available when the Packers are on the clock, and he DOES allow the Packers to address defensive weaknesses, I wouldn't write him off just so the team could reach for an OLB or CB.

It is extremely rare that there's a single best player is available once the Packers are on the clock (Rodgers being the exception). Therefore positions of need almost every time factor into a selection.

Most recent SBNation mock has the Packers taking Tre'Davious White but what I'm more interested in is that the mock draft has Malik McDowell being taken by the Falcons AFTER the Packers pick White. Not sure about others, but I would EXTREMELY disappointed if the Packers passed on McDowell. He has prototypical size to play 3-4 DE and he could move inside on passing downs to pair very well with Mike Daniels. Yes, the Packers have more pressing needs at CB but passing on a potentially elite dlineman would be a huge mistake; for what it's worth, mockdraftables closest comparisons based on combine numbers for McDowell are Leonard Williams and Gerald freaking McCoy (that's some great company!). PFF's comparison for McDowell is Michael Johnson, DE for the Bengals who has been a very DE for many years.

White might turn out to be very good (he is an excellent prospect) but dlinemen are more valuable in the NFL, especially when you can get a great dlineman on a rookie contract because great dlinemen make a LOT of money when they get off their rookie deals (yes, corners do as well but not to the degree dlinemen do). One of the things that the Pats have been so good at over the years is emphasizing positions early in the draft that provide value on their rookie deals.

(Fyi, for those that aren't aware mockdraftable.com is AMAZING for getting an idea of athletic guys really are relative to others at their positions).

I highly doubt McDowell would be a tier above every other prospect if he's still available at #29. Maybe you should rewatch some of the Packers games from last season to get an understanding about the value of at least decent cornerbacks.
 

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It is extremely rare that there's a single best player is available once the Packers are on the clock (Rodgers being the exception). Therefore positions of need almost every time factor into a selection.



I highly doubt McDowell would be a tier above every other prospect if he's still available at #29. Maybe you should rewatch some of the Packers games from last season to get an understanding about the value of at least decent cornerbacks.

I know perfectly well how important decent corners are. Are you aware that the Giants recently won two Super Bowls primarily because they had dominant defensive lines?

And, btw, a player being available at #29 doesn't mean squat when it comes to how good that player is. I remember a couple of years ago being told that Grady Jarrett from Clemson wouldn't be good because he went in the fifth round and yet he was one of the better defensive players on a good Falcons defense. Michael Bennett was an undrafted free agent for goodness sakes!
 
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I know perfectly well how important decent corners are. Are you aware that the Giants recently won two Super Bowls primarily because they had dominant defensive lines?

And, btw, a player being available at #29 doesn't mean squat when it comes to how good that player is. I remember a couple of years ago being told that Grady Jarrett from Clemson wouldn't be good because he went in the fifth round and yet he was one of the better defensive players on a good Falcons defense. Michael Bennett was an undrafted free agent for goodness sakes!

Those Giants teams had significantly better secondaries than the Packers currently have though.

There's no doubt that the position or round a prospect is drafted doesn't mean anything about the success those guys will have in the NFL. That doesn't change the fact that there's rarely a single best player left on a team's draft board once they're on the clock, especially late in the first round. That was the only thing I was talking about, no idea what your response has to do with it.
 

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Those Giants teams had significantly better secondaries than the Packers currently have though.

There's no doubt that the position or round a prospect is drafted doesn't mean anything about the success those guys will have in the NFL. That doesn't change the fact that there's rarely a single best player left on a team's draft board once they're on the clock, especially late in the first round. That was the only thing I was talking about, no idea what your response has to do with it.

I thought my response was clear. You definitively stated that a guy available at pick 29 was likely not a tier above any one else. I was pointing out how untrue that statement is; NFL GMs are BAD at evaluating how well college players will transition to the NFL (not singling anyone out, or really any one sport, there are zero GMs in any sport that are good in an absolute sense at evaluating how well players will transition). The single most compelling argument in front office management for the NFL is that teams should pretty much always trade down extensively and just collect more darts to throw at the dartboard.
 
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I thought my response was clear. You definitively stated that a guy available at pick 29 was likely not a tier above any one else. I was pointing out how untrue that statement is.

I was obviously talking about only a single player remaining within the top tier of a team's draft board at the time they're on the clock. General managers don't have the benefit of using hindsight to make a selection.
 

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NFL GMs are BAD at evaluating how well college players will transition to the NFL (not singling anyone out, or really any one sport, there are zero GMs in any sport that are good in an absolute sense at evaluating how well players will transition). The single most compelling argument in front office management for the NFL is that teams should pretty much always trade down extensively and just collect more darts to throw at the dartboard.
That's a little harsh. Every single player in the draft has a risk/reward factor associated. There are never any guarantees no matter where you draft. The higher the pick, though, the more likely the player is too succeed. Statistics demonstrate this. If a pick busts, it is not an error per say by the GM. The GM weighed the risk and looked at the reward and made the decision. Now if the GM hits a lot of busts he is failing as a GM. He may not be judging the talent correctly but is more likely to be erroring on evaluating the risk.

Think again about poker. The best players never win all the hands they go after. They weigh the risk on every hand and bet accordingly. They know some hands will bust, thats the odds. But they also know if they evaluate and understand the risks correctly, in the long run they will be successful.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Think again about poker. The best players never win all the hands they go after. They weigh the risk on every hand and bet accordingly. They know some hands will bust, thats the odds. But they also know if they evaluate and understand the risks correctly, in the long run they will be successful.

:tup: I can get on board with that analogy! ;) One big difference between Poker and the NFL, bluffing in the NFL doesn't do much, unless you are trotting Jeff Janis out to run him deep! :rolleyes:
 

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I thought my response was clear. You definitively stated that a guy available at pick 29 was likely not a tier above any one else. I was pointing out how untrue that statement is; NFL GMs are BAD at evaluating how well college players will transition to the NFL (not singling anyone out, or really any one sport, there are zero GMs in any sport that are good in an absolute sense at evaluating how well players will transition). The single most compelling argument in front office management for the NFL is that teams should pretty much always trade down extensively and just collect more darts to throw at the dartboard.
At pick 29 I tend to agree with this premise unless a top 15 on your board type of player is still available. IMO, generally speaking guys from 15-45 are pretty much equal so the more picks you can acquire from 30-60 the better has always been my thinking on this.
 

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That's a little harsh. Every single player in the draft has a risk/reward factor associated. There are never any guarantees no matter where you draft. The higher the pick, though, the more likely the player is too succeed. Statistics demonstrate this. If a pick busts, it is not an error per say by the GM. The GM weighed the risk and looked at the reward and made the decision. Now if the GM hits a lot of busts he is failing as a GM. He may not be judging the talent correctly but is more likely to be erroring on evaluating the risk.

Think again about poker. The best players never win all the hands they go after. They weigh the risk on every hand and bet accordingly. They know some hands will bust, thats the odds. But they also know if they evaluate and understand the risks correctly, in the long run they will be successful.
Tend to agree with your premise however, the GM only picks them. The coaches have to coach and utilize them correctly. Joe may be an appropriate pick at 15 but the coaching staff may do a poor job of enhancing and utilizing Joe's talents. That too is on the head coach and ultimately the GM. Joe may become a better player in a different city with a different coaching staff. There is an art to it and the whole process is far from perfect.

I noticed recently that some of Lombardi's drafts from the 60's were downright pathetic. His best players were from the late 50's and 60-61 drafts. It got rather sparse after that.
 
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I've been assured that the Packers need to take Sidney Jones, Adoree' Jackson, Kevin King, Chidobe Awuzie, Fabian Moreau, and Akhello Witherspoon OFF their board. Screw these PAC 12 guys!
 

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