Cornerbacks

[Deleted member 6794]

Sadly, you may be correct. Even with what is thought to be a strong CB draft class, that is still pinning a lot of hopes on a #29 pick. Guessing someone will find me an example of one, but how many CB's picked that late in the first round have had an impactful rookie season?

I guess it took most cornerbacks selected at that point or later some time to develop into impact players.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I guess it took most cornerbacks selected at that point or later some time to develop into impact players.

All I can keep thinking is:

1. Damarious Randall
2. Ahmad Carroll
3. Antuan Edwards
4. Craig Newsome

None help me to sleep at night, especially knowing what happened in 2016 with the current group. Do I expect any player at any position chosen at #29 to be impactful his rookie year? No, I think that is why this offseason so far, has been very disappointing.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

All I can keep thinking is:

1. Damarious Randall
2. Ahmad Carroll
3. Antuan Edwards
4. Craig Newsome

None help me to sleep at night, especially knowing what happened in 2016 with the current group. Do I expect any player at any position chosen at #29 to be impactful his rookie year? No, I think that is why this offseason so far, has been very disappointing.

There's no doubt the Packers haven't selected a cornerback in the first round worthy of being drafted that early in a long time.

 

[Dantés]

Good info, thanks for compiling. Would you still pick Damarious Randall at #30 in expectations of his 3rd year being his Pro Bowl year? Packers kind of have themselves in a Catch-22 situation at CB right now. If they are thinking that their current group of young talent had a poor showing in 2016 due to injuries/youth and will be much better in 2017, why spend a top pick on one? However, if they don't spend a top pick (still no guarantees) and the current group repeats 2016, they are another year behind fixing the problem. Not going to lament what should have been, but I would have hedged the risk and signed one of the top 5 FA CB's.

No I would not. As strong as those athletic predictors look, Randall has put forth two years of disappointment. I do absolutely think that he can bounce back and be a useful corner, if not a stud. And the data would support that possibility. But if you're going to let me go back and take anyone I want, I'm taking Collins or McKinney or Kendricks. Someone like that.

I don't quite agree about the catch 22. You need three corners. Even if both Randall and Rollins bounce back in a big way, a 1st round corner would be far from a waste. Though I will say that I'm not in favor of locking into a position to draft at #29. There's a great chance that a really good corner will be there and that's my first choice. But you never know and you have to be flexible if you want to consistently successful in the draft.

 

[Poppa San]

After not adequately addressing the position in free agency there's absolutely no doubt in my mind the Packers have to use their first round pick on a cornerback.

I hope they don't just so I can watch your meltdown.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I hope they don't just so I can watch your meltdown.

That's a great attitude, especially for a moderator. I hope you will enjoy the Packers defensive meltdowns against good scoring offenses during the 2017 season if Thompson doesn't address the cornerback position adequately as well.

 

[Poppa San]

It's a game. I keep it in perspective and don't get too emotionally invested.

 

[Dantés]

All else being equal, CB is the top need and would be my choice at #29. Furthermore, this class would seem to lend itself to that plan as there are several really great CB prospects.

That said, the draft doesn't always accommodate your greatest perceived need. Depending on how the board falls, it may end up being wiser to take a different position.

This is reductionistic, but just to make the point you can imagine if there was a huge run on corners in the back half of round 1 that you might be left to choose between a C+ corner prospect and an A- pass rusher, or A level guard, or something like that. It would likely help the team more in the long and short run to take the lesser need with the greater player. Reaching merely to say that you took the position you needed most rarely pays off.

 

[AmishMafia]

That's a great attitude, especially for a moderator. I hope you will enjoy the Packers defensive meltdowns against good scoring offenses during the 2017 season if Thompson doesn't address the cornerback position adequately as well.

I think the biggest meltdowns ever where the Rodgers pick and the Nick Collins pick. Many posters were calling for TT's head. I was pulling for AR but had never even heard of Collins. Point being that fans have been very wrong on some of TTs picks and way overreacted. And yes, that is funny.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

All else being equal, CB is the top need and would be my choice at #29. Furthermore, this class would seem to lend itself to that plan as there are several really great CB prospects.

That said, the draft doesn't always accommodate your greatest perceived need. Depending on how the board falls, it may end up being wiser to take a different position.

This is reductionistic, but just to make the point you can imagine if there was a huge run on corners in the back half of round 1 that you might be left to choose between a C+ corner prospect and an A- pass rusher, or A level guard, or something like that. It would likely help the team more in the long and short run to take the lesser need with the greater player. Reaching merely to say that you took the position you needed most rarely pays off.

I absolutely expect Thompson to select a player out of the prospects remaining in the top tier once the team is on the clock. While position of need factors into a selection there's no reason to reach for a lesser graded draftee.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think the biggest meltdowns ever where the Rodgers pick and the Nick Collins pick. Many posters were calling for TT's head. I was pulling for AR but had never even heard of Collins. Point being that fans have been very wrong on some of TTs picks and way overreacted. And yes, that is funny.

On the other side fans have been correct about several of Thompson's picks as well. I wouldn't mind the Packers to draft a player at another position than cornerback as long as he's the only top tier prospect left. With that being pretty improbable at #29 need at CB has to factor into TT's decision.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I absolutely expect Thompson to select a player out of the prospects remaining in the top tier once the team is on the clock. While position of need factors into a selection there's no reason to reach for a lesser graded draftee.

I absolutely expect Thompson to pick a player (if he doesn't trade out) in the first round that will have at least 1/2 of the people on this site questioning him. I respectfully reserve what side of that fence I will be on until he makes the pick.

 

[AmishMafia]

On the other side fans have been correct about several of Thompson's picks as well. I wouldn't mind the Packers to draft a player at another position than cornerback as long as he's the only top tier prospect left. With that being pretty improbable at #29 need at CB has to factor into TT's decision.

Some people hate every pick he makes so by law of averages they will be correct some of the time. Picks like Justin Harrell are not understood by the average poster as a weighted risk vrs reward decision. They only understand results and expect 100% accuracy in an extremely subjective/uncertain environment.

TT will pick a player from the highest tier available. If there are more than 1 available in the top talent tier available it will be at a position of need. As it so happens, CB and OLB talent is very deep. I would bet we will get one of each on the first 3 rounds. If not, I would bet there is belief among the Packer brass that a plan in place has us covered. A hidden gem later in the draft, someone on roster is going to break out, expected veteran cuts, or ?????

 

[Pkrjones]

Another prospective 1st/2nd round CB went down at their Pro Day . Fabian Moreau tore his pectoral and will most likely miss all of TC and possibly a few regular season games while recovering from surgery.

Sidney Jones just had surgery to repair his 3/12 Pro Day injured achilles and will miss most/all of '17.

Don't want TT spending the 1st or 2nd rounder on either guy, but if they fall to late 3rd maybe worth it?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Another prospective 1st/2nd round CB went down at their Pro Day . Fabian Moreau tore his pectoral and will most likely miss all of TC and possibly a few regular season games while recovering from surgery.

Sidney Jones just had surgery to repair his 3/12 Pro Day injured achilles and will miss most/all of '17.

Don't want TT spending the 1st or 2nd rounder on either guy, but if they fall to late 3rd maybe worth it?

I think either of them could turn out to be a steal in the 3rd round and Moreau is more likely to be ready to play this year still. The one negative of both injuries is if those 2 guys weren't on the Packers wish list before the injuries, it slides 2 guys who may have been, further down the board for other teams to get a shot at.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They only understand results and expect 100% accuracy in an extremely subjective/uncertain environment.

Well, unfortunately results are the only thing that matter when being an NFL general manager.

Another prospective 1st/2nd round CB went down at their Pro Day . Fabian Moreau tore his pectoral and will most likely miss all of TC and possibly a few regular season games while recovering from surgery.

Sidney Jones just had surgery to repair his 3/12 Pro Day injured achilles and will miss most/all of '17.

Don't want TT spending the 1st or 2nd rounder on either guy, but if they fall to late 3rd maybe worth it?

If Thompson had addressed the need for a cornerback in free agency the Packers could have selected Jones even with their first round pick and possibly gotten a steal. I don't expect him to be on the board when the team is on the clock in the third round.

The one negative of both injuries is if those 2 guys weren't on the Packers wish list before the injuries, it slides 2 guys who may have been, further down the board for other teams to get a shot at.

True, both injuries possibly result in the Packers having fewer choices to address the position in the first round of the draft.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I was actually wondering about the Packers drafting a guy like Obi Melifonwu, safety from Conneticut. I know, crazy, but here me out. PFF compares him to Kam Chancellor because the guy is so unique. He's 6'4", 224 lbs, ridiculously fast for that size, played well at corner in the Senior Bowl (used to play corner) and a great tackler. PFF notes his ability to cover TEs would be very good in the NFL and, with his versatility, the Packers' weakness at ILB wouldn't be so bad since you'd have Burnett and Melifonwu with the size to play ILB. Now, I would much prefer the Packers go OLB but if the team wants a guy that can help with coverage AND potentially shore up the ILB position, this guy might fit the bill pretty well.

 

[thequick12]

All I can keep thinking is:

1. Damarious Randall
2. Ahmad Carroll
3. Antuan Edwards
4. Craig Newsome

None help me to sleep at night, especially knowing what happened in 2016 with the current group. Do I expect any player at any position chosen at #29 to be impactful his rookie year? No, I think that is why this offseason so far, has been very disappointing.

could defintly be argued that Randall had a significant impact as a rookie. 58 tackles 53 solo 3 int 14 passes defensed and a td. he just regressed in his 2nd season hopefully due to injury. my prediction is he plays much better in 2017. can't remember what Newsome did as rookie

 

[thequick12]

I was actually wondering about the Packers drafting a guy like Obi Melifonwu, safety from Conneticut. I know, crazy, but here me out. PFF compares him to Kam Chancellor because the guy is so unique. He's 6'4", 224 lbs, ridiculously fast for that size, played well at corner in the Senior Bowl (used to play corner) and a great tackler. PFF notes his ability to cover TEs would be very good in the NFL and, with his versatility, the Packers' weakness at ILB wouldn't be so bad since you'd have Burnett and Melifonwu with the size to play ILB. Now, I would much prefer the Packers go OLB but if the team wants a guy that can help with coverage AND potentially shore up the ILB position, this guy might fit the bill pretty well.

I like this idea a lot. think he could man the slot taking over for Hyde as the Jack of all trades db who can line up in slot, outside, at safety, blitz off the edge. would likely have to spend #29 on him but could be well worth it. he could also play the role Morgan Burnett did as an ILB in 2016. in addition he could likely take over for Burnett in 2018 becoming the staring free safety and pushing Clinton Dix to strong safety a position he's better suited for. Dix doesn't make nick Collins attacking type plays if you look at all his ints I would bet almost all are off tipped balls or overthrown. I can't recall even one where he attacked the ball cuto in front of a receiver and took the ball running

 

[Pkrjones]

I was actually wondering about the Packers drafting a guy like Obi Melifonwu, safety from Conneticut. I know, crazy, but here me out. PFF compares him to Kam Chancellor because the guy is so unique. He's 6'4", 224 lbs, ridiculously fast for that size, played well at corner in the Senior Bowl (used to play corner) and a great tackler. PFF notes his ability to cover TEs would be very good in the NFL and, with his versatility, the Packers' weakness at ILB wouldn't be so bad since you'd have Burnett and Melifonwu with the size to play ILB. Now, I would much prefer the Packers go OLB but if the team wants a guy that can help with coverage AND potentially shore up the ILB position, this guy might fit the bill pretty well.

Very interesting idea, Sunshine. Would definitely allow the D to be much more flexible with TE/slot WR coverages. Good work, now go have a beer and enjoy the weekend!

 

[PikeBadger]

Some people hate every pick he makes so by law of averages they will be correct some of the time. Picks like Justin Harrell are not understood by the average poster as a weighted risk vrs reward decision. They only understand results and expect 100% accuracy in an extremely subjective/uncertain environment.

TT will pick a player from the highest tier available. If there are more than 1 available in the top talent tier available it will be at a position of need. As it so happens, CB and OLB talent is very deep. I would bet we will get one of each on the first 3 rounds. If not, I would bet there is belief among the Packer brass that a plan in place has us covered. A hidden gem later in the draft, someone on roster is going to break out, expected veteran cuts, or ?????

I think another thing to take into consideration is which players on the roster have contracts expiring after the 2017 season and will that potentially create holes in certain position groups. Thompson has said before that he looks ahead a year in that players tend to make the most improvement between years 1 and 2.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was actually wondering about the Packers drafting a guy like Obi Melifonwu, safety from Conneticut. I know, crazy, but here me out. PFF compares him to Kam Chancellor because the guy is so unique. He's 6'4", 224 lbs, ridiculously fast for that size, played well at corner in the Senior Bowl (used to play corner) and a great tackler. PFF notes his ability to cover TEs would be very good in the NFL and, with his versatility, the Packers' weakness at ILB wouldn't be so bad since you'd have Burnett and Melifonwu with the size to play ILB. Now, I would much prefer the Packers go OLB but if the team wants a guy that can help with coverage AND potentially shore up the ILB position, this guy might fit the bill pretty well.

Melifonwu is an intriguing prospect but unfortunately doesn't address the Packers most glaring weakness. Therefore I don't want the Packers to spend their first round pick on him and he will most likely be gone by the time the team is on the clock in thesecond.

could defintly be argued that Randall had a significant impact as a rookie. 58 tackles 53 solo 3 int 14 passes defensed and a td. he just regressed in his 2nd season hopefully due to injury. my prediction is he plays much better in 2017. can't remember what Newsome did as rookie

Randall didn't have a significant impact in his rookie season and performed at an average level at best.

I think another thing to take into consideration is which players on the roster have contracts expiring after the 2017 season and will that potentially create holes in certain position groups. Thompson has said before that he looks ahead a year in that players tend to make the most improvement between years 1 and 2.

Unfortunately Thompson doesn't think about the present enough though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Besides giving the Steelers a 4th rounder, because he is a RFA, I would love to know what it would take ($$ wise) to sign CB Ross Cockrell. While I don't think he would be the savior at CB, at 25 years old and a pretty decent PFF rating (79.6), he would be an upgrade. I'm guessing this won't happen for a number of reasons. TT won't give up the 4th round pick, Packers plan on using a high pick on a CB and will need to give him, House, Randall, Rollins and Gunter snaps.

 

[Dantés]

Besides giving the Steelers a 4th rounder, because he is a RFA, I would love to know what it would take ($$ wise) to sign CB Ross Cockrell. While I don't think he would be the savior at CB, at 25 years old and a pretty decent PFF rating (79.6), he would be an upgrade. I'm guessing this won't happen for a number of reasons. TT won't give up the 4th round pick, Packers plan on using a high pick on a CB and will need to give him, House, Randall, Rollins and Gunter snaps.

I'd be wary of thinking a corner in PITT could neatly transition to GB. Butler uses a lot of zone there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd be wary of thinking a corner in PITT could neatly transition to GB. Butler uses a lot of zone there.

I read this before I posted about Cockrell (A quote from a Pittsburgh reporter):

"Left outside cornerback Ross Cockrell has also shown some ability to be a man coverage corner, even shadowing an opposing team’s top target for large stretches of a game from time to time. With the secondary getting more experience under their belt, that is only more likely to happen going forward."

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/01/dulac-steelers-stopped-using-man-coverage-ne-didnt-work/

Edit: More on Cockrell:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...s-cockrells-performance-vs-the-bengals-should