1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Big Announcement Coming for 2015 Football Season!!

    Be on the look out for a big Packer Forum announcement when the schedule is released. Full details coming soon... Update: Announcement to be released on MONDAY!

Congratulations; you are the new defensive Co.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by rodell330, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    I hear what you're saying, and I agree, but we have other contracts to think about, and not a lot of cap to do it with. There are a few things we can do to free up some room, but we generally stick to low cost low risk Free Agents anyway. I'd rather try and fix our problems by gaining impact players through the draft. We don't really need a lot of work, but there are a few things that MUST improve, and at least one thing that could take some time to fix. Personally I'd love to spend some money on a name FA, Kruger would be a MONSTER with us, but that money doesn't come from thin air. and may end up hurting us with so many contracts to redo in the next 2 years, and I kind of doubt we'll be able to sign someone like that to a large 1-2 year deal, I know I'd want 3-4. If I were going to spend money on a big FA, DL would be the place I'd do it. Those guys take a long time to develop, and we have three contracts that run out next year. Nobody to turn heads in that group though...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    786
    Ratings:
    +154
    I'm thinking about the future. Free agents ruin the cap. When we have 2 huge contracts to worry about we can't spend money on free agents. Instead get young cheap talent for years to come.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,521
    Ratings:
    +1,442
    Spending money in free agency for the sake of spending is a fool's quest just as much as sitting on drafted players that will never pan out. I'm a TT guy because I'm fiscally conservative myself. That doesn't mean that you don't take chances here and there but you limit your exposure. There aren't many teams that play free agency well. Many thought that the Eagle's moves two years ago would get them over the hump. They only needed a few key acquisitions in FA to make the Super Bowl. Well complete implosion ensued. There are many reasons, and I'm not specifically blaming their use of free agency, but just the notion that going out and spending money is the fix itself.

    The real key is all of us (and the Packers) arguing about who the right players are to pursue. Of course, that all needs to take place in the context of what current players do you sacrifice because you used up cap space on FA players. It's rare to find a deal in free agency, and more likely to find a guy that just peaked but commands top dollar.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Packer Fan in SD

    Packer Fan in SD Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    79
    Ratings:
    +31
    From every thing I have read, even if we gain cap space with the losses of DD, GJ, maybe Finley and Woodson, even a couple of others, with the cap staying flat and 3 large contracts to decide, we will be tight in cap room. Rodgers and Clay will eat up a huge amount of room, and if we end up franchising Raji he will be a big hit on the cap. Plus, there will be other players due also, those are just the big names. There just isn't a lot of cap room for anything splashy. It is going to come down to the draft, value FA's and returning injured players.
     
  5. Un4GivN

    Un4GivN Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    45
    Ratings:
    +30
    Thoughts on Jairus Byrd? I believe I heard yesterday that it is likely that Buffalo will franchise tag him for a mere 6 mil. So perhaps that will be taken off the plate.

    But even with a new contract he would be looking for a number much less than Woodsons 10+mil and I think a physical presence and leader in the back-end could really help secure that secondary for years to come.
     
  6. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,931
    Ratings:
    +993


    Ok, so let me ask you guy's a question then. Besides Matthews who on defense has had a major impact on that side of the ball every year since he was drafted by the Packers? please give me one other name...please. Don't say BJ Raji either because he hasn't been good since 2010. So besides clay who else is there? BTW has to have been with us for a minimum of 3 yr's. I can't think of anyone else besides Clay Matthews but when you look at teams like San Franciso who bought in guy's like Justin Smith, Dante Whittner, Carlos Rogers, Ahmad Brooks to make that defense what it is now..which is IMO the best in the league.

    Yea they have guy's starting they drafted but show me a team who starts every player they draft on defense? sometimes you have to spend to see results. When the Niners went out and got Whitner, Smith and Rogers to sure up that side of the ball they saw a major improvement on defense and that's not by accident.

    Justin smith has his Clay Matthews in Aldon Smith, but when will Clay Matthews have his Justin Smith?? cus he's not on the roster. Niners play the same type of D but their personnel is so much better in certain areas and it's not all because of how they drafted guy's and let them "develop".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,889
    Ratings:
    +832
    They need to rework the CBA and give each team an unlimitted QB allowance. They really are the only franchise players that you want to keep for a decade. They are the faces of the organization and they screw the rest of the cap space up by having such massive contracts. So basically have the cap but allow the QB to be a 1 player allowance whose contract is completely outside the cap.
     
  8. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,931
    Ratings:
    +993
    Would be nice, but i don't ever see that happening.
     
  9. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    SF did that when it had the money to spend on FA. We don't have that money like we did when we brought in Wood or Reggie. That's the difference. Glad you said 3 year min, because "develop" is a big thing. When Cap is tight, you NEED to "hit" on your draft picks, and draft in such a way that your players develop at the right time. DL is a prime example of our failure to do so. I can almost guarantee TT is probably regretting letting Jenkins go. The next two years will be big because of all the contracts, If we were going to rebuild those would be the years. You can look at our roster/ps moves as of recent days and figure out pretty close to what the brass is thinking.
     
  10. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    Byrd will be expensive, a player like that is guaranteed to have a lot of suitors (I can think of 2 off the top of my head) No way Buffalo lets him walk though.
     
  11. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,931
    Ratings:
    +993

    I hate the word "rebuild" when you have an elite franchise qb already in place tho. I think the Packers can make a run at multiple SB titles if they fix the defense. It pains me this team is so close to winning it all again but can't seem to fix the defense. I bet if you bring in Krueger or Spencer to go along with Matthews and find a stud d-linemen in the draft we will be playing in the NFC championship game next year...i GUARANTEE it. A couple of players can make a huge difference for the defense.
     
  12. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    I'll use the term "overhaul" then. DL takes time, spend the money there and draft the OLB. Brass has overloaded the ILB spot (Bish, Smith, Jones OLB/UFA, Hawk, Manning, Lattimore OLB, Francois RFA, and they just signed Micah) meaning they probably intend to make a change. There's a lot of weight that can be shed, but re-signings are going to have to be smart.

    Defensive players with contracts up:
    2013
    Francois Jones Shields Walden Zombo
    2014
    Burnett Jennings Lattimore Neal Pickett Wilson
    2015
    Bishop Bush House Miller Moses Richardson Smith Williams Woodson
    2016
    Daniels Hawk Hayward Manning McMillian Perry Worthy
     
  13. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,931
    Ratings:
    +993
    Overhaul is a much better term. TT hasn't drafted a stud Lb'r since Matthews has he? His eye is clearly to find wr's and corners but he stinks at drafting rb's and lbr's imo.
     
  14. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,521
    Ratings:
    +1,442
    That's a great point. The problem is that the Packers have to find a Justin Smith, a Dante Whittner, a Carlos Rogers, and an Ahmad Brooks and reasonable prices to make those moves. Different cap situations can make all the difference in how a team builds its roster. I agree with your premise about getting solid free agents, we may just differ slightly in the price we are willing to pay - and what the correlating trade-offs would be to doing so.
     
  15. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,931
    Ratings:
    +993
    I'm one of the guy's who is ready to part ways with Raji and find his replacement in the draft so we can save money on his departure. If you can get a guy like Krueger for 4 yr's at 6 mil a year i don't think that would prevent us from giving Matthews or Rodgers what they want when it comes time to extend them. We just need another impact player on defense who's name isn't Charles Woodson or Clay Matthews, and i prefer a pass rusher who can get the qb.
     
  16. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Ratings:
    +1,453
    I think the overall $$ problem is not a salary cap itself, as in an overall number assigned to the team.....I think there should be a payroll cap for all the players based on position.
    I think players/guys/whomever are just way toooo damn greedy. Some players make more in one game than the average joe will make in a lifetime.....c'mon, that's just a little to much now.
    When will the ceiling on these outrageous salaries ever end? year is 2020, an MVP QB is now making 35 mill per season......can't wait to see that happen.
     
  17. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    Raji is actually a premier NT, and NT is probably the position that takes the longest to develop with the least consistency. Can you afford to get smashed up the middle for a few years because your NT is still trying to transition? We were incredibly lucky at how ungodly fast Raji transitioned.
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,945
    Ratings:
    +2,245
  19. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    786
    Ratings:
    +154
    Trust me I'm all for getting free agents. The 49ers were probably able to get those guys because they had cap flexibility. We don't have that luxury when we don't have a lot of cap space. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...packers-salary-cap-scenario-heading-into-2013. So we are at 8 million in cap space. Letting jennings go will free up some space. Driver and Saturday will probably retire. The big cap space will come if we release players like Hawk, Finley, Woodson. These are players names who have been brought up. If you are willing to part way these guys and get other free agents that's fine. Remember this though. If cut these guys. We are going to get cap penalties. Then signing free agents they are going to get a lot of guaranteed money. Then we have question marks in the players we cut. Finley- we have to find a new TE plus he is only 25 years old still room to develop and mature. Hawk- Been durable, veteran leadership. Plus Bishop is coming back from a ruptured hammy. We have no idea how he is going to be. Rodgers said Woodson is very important and i put stock in that. I don't know about you but it would seem we went backwards more than forwards.
     
  20. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    786
    Ratings:
    +154
  21. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,945
    Ratings:
    +2,245
  22. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    786
    Ratings:
    +154
    Yah I don't know why. Either way we still have to make room. Rodgers 20 mil a year and Matthews in double digits as well
     
  23. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    808
    Ratings:
    +384
    So I'm the new defensive coordinator or general manager? I'll spare y'all my FA wishlist...

    ...If I'm defensive coordinator, part of the reason I took the position in Green Bay is because I'm confident this year's defensive rookies- Nick Perry, Casey Heyward, Jerel Worthy, Jerron McMillian, Dezmon Moses, and Mike Daniels- all improve in their second season, some of them substantially.

    Can't migrate away from the 3-4 due to our personnel but I would try to work in a few 4-3 alignments just to test offenses a bit (ala NE). I encourage the general manager to look for CB prospects with size that we can develop along with better speed at the ILB spots. Probably need to find another DT that can eat up blockers. But I'm pretty confident about our rookies getting better...
     
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,945
    Ratings:
    +2,245
    Make room, yes, but not as much room as people might think.

    Rodgers' cap hit in 2012 was about $8.5 mil. Under a renegotiation with a hefty signing bonus pushing a chunk of the cap hit to the out years, his cap number will increase no more than $10 mil in 2013, probably less. Matthews' cap his was about about $2 mil in 2012...add at most $8 mil to the 2013 cap, probably less with the signing bonus deferral.

    If we were $5 mil under the cap at season's end (after deducting one-time 2012 penalty bonuses), add $7.5 mil savings from Jennings, and $5 mil savings from Saturday and Driver, and you're close to making up the difference.

    If either Finley is released or Woodson is negotiated down sharply, there should be room for an impact FA player. I'd be looking for a safety. With the franchise tag at safety being about $7 mil you get an indication there's bang for the FA buck at this position of need.

    Personally, I see no urgency to extend Raji this off season. His inconsistency says "not elite", and often "not that good", his contract is not up until after 2014, and he's set to make $4.5 mil cash money next season which is certainly not an underpayment based on these past 2 years' performance. He can wait at least another year. Watch for advance planning in the draft, a la the Cobb pick in anticipation of Jennings FA. If TT goes for a big body, say John Jenkins, in the first round or in a trade up/down toward the top of the 2nd., or a lesser talent at the bottom of the 2nd., you'll have an idea where we're heading.

    I think the fact we don't have a young big body on the roster behind Raji, and the fact Jenkins has one more year, makes the urgency of signing Raji seem more acute than it is. To repeat, he can wait. Since his 2014 year is voidable, we'll probably get a real Pro Bowl season out of him in 2013 with the urgency for him to prove his worth.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    4,945
    Ratings:
    +2,245
    So, what are Raji and Pickett supposed to be doing out there?
     

Share This Page