1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Comparing the Packers (and other playoff contenders) to past SB winners

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Jules, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,769
    Ratings:
    +754
    Interesting comparisons to me. For the teams in the playoffs or in current contention he finds a past Super Bowl winner to compare them to. And why it will work and won't.

    http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/playoff-contenders-and-super-bowl-blueprints/
     
  2. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Ratings:
    +871
    I agree with that, I compared them to that same Niner team earlier this year, but that's the problem here.


    I can't exactly remember, but I know the 49ers had some streak going into the playoffs where they never allowed a TD outside the redzone, or something like that. That defense was a fear machine and compared to our defense, it's a complete joke. They also had talent as we do (Haley, Lott, Romanawski, McDonald) but they could stop you. The only team that could pass rush on the same level or better than San Francisco was the Giants (and this is before the 1991 Redskins unit, since Dallas got Haley from SF, I'm not going to go beyond 1990)




    That's the one thing that truly scares me about this Packer team. The defense can't stop anyone, and I totally fear we'll get into the playoffs and a team will shut Rodgers down (as KC did) and then have a field day with our piss poor tackling and chicken **** coverage down the field. That 49er squad from 1989 would probably have 500 yards against this defense. Sure the weather is a factor, but it still don't buy me. The Superbowl is in a Dome, can't depend on the weather there.

    The '89 Niners have 3 advantages over this team

    #1. Defense - Goes without saying. The 49ers didn't give up go ahead points. If they were up 42-24, they were not going to let you crawl back into the game like the Chargers did, or if they were up 28-17, they were going to finish you unlike the Packers did with the Giants (who scored 3 plays later after trailing 28-17) This also goes back to week 1. When we were up 42-20 on the Saints, and they started to come back. Had they not forced that fumble on Colston on the opening drive of N.O., and had Payton kicked a FG when he went for it on 4th and goal, the Saints would have probably won that game because the Pack defense did absolutely nothing to stop Drew Brees that night.

    #2. Rushing - Roger Craig was near the end of his career, and combined with the FB Rathman (who had a career year in '89) they were a top rushing team. Montana didn't have to put it up 30-40 times a game, they could pound you with the run too

    #3. Offensive Line - They learned from their mistakes in the following year that they needed to keep the O-line healthy to ensure Joe Cool wasn't injured most of the season.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,769
    Ratings:
    +754
    Playoff jitters. I am starting to get them too a tiny bit. It happens to me every year.I still have faith this D can step it up when it matters but I am still confused by them at times. In fact, I am a bit confused right now in general. Logic says that the Packers/Saints/Patriots who happen to the be the top 3 SB faves right now defy "defense wins championships." You know offense sells tickets and defense wins championships.

    Something has to give in the playoffs. A team will have to step it up on defense. I do think the Pack have enough talent to do so but you still have to see it to believe it for several games.

    I mean look at last year. The Jets. Of course the Colts had some injuries on offense but they did not score much vs. the Jets. Reggie Wayne was held for negative yards on one catch by Revis and the run game got shut down. And then the Jets get called lucky after Caldwell called that time out but they go and do the "impossible" in NE against a horrible defense and high flying offense. And the AFC again this year has several top defenses.

    Now in the NFC outside of SF there have not been many consistent defenses this season. The Packers have shown us flashes but never string enough games of it together to give you full faith.


    Yep, I know all too well the postseason can be a whole new ball game. I pray the Packers D plays to their potential. I also pray that the o line can hold it together.

    Of course I did chuckle a bit at the 2006 Colts thing in comparison to the 2011 Patriots. Well, those Colts actually had a good D in 2005 so it confused fans why it was so bad in 2006 give or take a player or two. Much like GB. You lose a few players and you go from a top D to the bottom? The 2006 Colts also had top safeties in the playoffs once Bob Sanders was back, elite pass rushers and they finally tackled well consistently enough to limit the run. There was enough talent on the D, it just did not come together and gel until the playoffs when they got Bob back full time and played smart football.

    Can GB pull a 2006 Colts? Well you won't be getting anyone back on defense to give them a spark unless I am missing someone. But, they can still simply tackle better, play smarter and Capers can sharpen things up hopefully. Stop giving up the big plays.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Ratings:
    +871

    The 2006 Colts can be a good comparing buddy to this defense, but I don't think it was just getting rid of a few guys. Sadly the Packers defensive problems really remind me of the Cowboys and 49ers from the early 90's. When SF let Charles Haley go and Ronnie Lott left, they had some big problems, but they managed to camouflage it how you could hardly tell something was wrong, but the "No punt game" against Buffalo that was a constant back and forth shoot out just showed you something was wrong. I thought for a while, (and still kinda do) the reason Dallas' defense started to go down hill so quickly was letting Ken Norton go, and eventually Charles Haley, but most of that falls on Jerry Jones and Barry Switzer. I don't think Jimmy Johnson would have been dumb enough to let one of his best players go to a team they met in the playoffs every year (Ken Norton going to San Francisco) and he would have strictly kept Charles Haley. You couldn't really tell Dallas had problems after those guys left cause their star power like Deion Sanders covered it up, even though I don't think Jimmy Johnson would have spent so much for him.


    There's gotta be more to the Packers problems besides losing Burnett, Nick Collins, and that other fellow. I just refuse to believe it. They don't even really try to get pressure on the QB anymore, it's kinda depressing. And the way they give up huge plays can be traced back to Cam Newton throwing 400 yards them them. That was the real "blue print" if there ever was one. That showed you should have no fear throwing deep ball on them all day cause 60% of the time is a chance it's a completion.

    I remember in 1998 when we let Randall Cunnigham throw for 400 against our defense that had just lost the Super Bowl. That game was Cunnigham's "greatest ever" as he called it himself. Just thankful with the Vikings current washed up QB, we didn't have to deal with something like that again.




    The more I think about it, the Jets could have made it to the Super Bowl last year. They came back when the Steelers were blowing them out, and the 4th and goal go for it really cost them, as did Sanchez turnover in the first half that lead to Steeler points. If you take away just a few screw ups, the Jets could have easily won that game.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,769
    Ratings:
    +754
    Same. I don't buy it either. Something is odd, very odd. Let's see how they respond after losing one. Maybe I was wrong all this time and a loss was needed. I mean by all means they SHOULD be able to have a good game vs. an anemic Bears O. This Packers D had to see whats its like again when Rodgers can't be Godgers.

    The only thing that has stuck in my mind all year was an article Bob Kravtiz wrote in the IndyStar after the Colts started 5-0 in the regular season in 2006. He basically wrote about how amazing the offense was but how bored the defense looked.He said they all knew they were going to the playoffs. They were bored. They just wanted to wait for another crack at the SB. I didn't buy his theory at the time, but later on I kinda wondered if it was laziness a bit. At times they did not TRY to stop the run in the regular season but when it mattered they did. Like all year I knew they could do it but they didn't. Dungy said they could do it. Sadly they were so bad at times they helped the team blow the first seed. Then the second seed. They pretty much just showed up for a few games that year and one was in NE. And then in the postseason they played like they did in that NE game for 4 straight games. I mean it was more then just getting Bob Sanders back. There was real effort, passion and all the good stuff coming when it was needed.

    I picked the Steelers to win that game vs. the Jets but I was iffy. The Jets often suffer from NE hangovers. It's a big reason why I picked Tebow to beat them in Denver this year. Win or lose the Jets go all out vs. the Pats mentally and physically. And if they had just shown up in Pittsburgh maybe like 5 minutes earlier for the comeback we could have had an all wild card Super Bowl. Typical Jets. If they get in the playoffs I won't ever count them out no matter how bad they might look. Rex has beaten Rivers/Manning/Brady in back to back years on the road. How can I count that out?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Ratings:
    +871

    LMFAO ROFL New England hang over :roflmao: You diagnosed that one perfect. Beating the Patriots is the Super Bowl for Rex Ryan. I never noticed that but you hit the nail on the head. They'll play a 101% game against NE and then blow it a week later lol.

    I don't think the Jets make it this season, I hope not.

    They've already pulled a Cleveland by going to back to back AFC Championships and losing them, they can skip this season and go back to the AFC Championship next year and do a full repeat of the Browns melt downs by going to the AFC Championship back to back, miss a year and back in it, only this time get blown out lol.

    The sad part is, the Jets were a quarterback away from being an elite team last season. Letting Braylon Edwards and Jericho Cothecery go to add star power in Plaxico Burress (and oh yeah, you know the only reason they went after him is because he had success against the Patriots, just like Holmes) was a huge mistake by them after keeping Sanchez. (Those guys made him look better than he truly is.)

    Rex's defense does have some holes in it though...Letting teams throw all over them this season and fully expose their weakness in pass coverage. I like Rex's schemes, they remind me of the old Oilers in a way when his father was there, but they both suffer from the same problems. They can stop the run, but they create a way to let the quarterback slowly beat them. Rex fails like his old man. They both built defenses around pressure and stopping the run, but Buddy Ryan's history he let some quarterbacks make jokes of his defenses (Rams at Eagles, NFC Divisional Round, Oilers at Bills, AFC Wild Card) and so far this season Rex's defense letting Brady tear them up twice just set the blue print to beating them through the air.
     
  7. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,769
    Ratings:
    +754
    The Jets D has been uncharacteristically bad vs. the run at times this year. Not sure whats up with that. But, you never know if Rex will shore it up in time either. As long as he has Revis Island he can game plan around him. I swear if that team lost Revis they would be so screwed.......

    The Jets are also better as underdogs, especially vs. NE. I can't count them out until they are completely eliminated. Guess we have to wait and see. They have been trashing talking galore lately too.I was actually a bit stunned last year they beat NE after they called the Pats and Brady all kinds of names and stuff. They really played the role of bully great and finished it off.

    One of the biggest problems with the Jets this year has been Wayne Hunter. He's a drop off for them at OT.

    Speaking of the Pats the 2007 Pats had a pretty good D as well. I think they were a top 5 overall D by years end and they might have been second in sacks behind the Giants for the year. I remember Vrabel having quite the season that year. When the Pats played the Colts that season it was as much as a defensive battle as anything. And when the Colts played SD and lost they beat the crap out of SD. Rivers lost his ACL and we knocked out LdT. We helped the Pats actually by beating up SD so much in a loss LOL.

    And in terms of pulling a "2006 Colts" on defense it was not just Sanders but he was a big part. The D with him was light years different. He was our run D and play maker. The spark. Short career but he hit and hit hard.
     

Share This Page