Comparing 2008 Packers Roster vs 2023 Packers Roster

tynimiller

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Buddy of mine asked if I felt the young Rodgers had a better roster or Love does going into their first year as "the man"....to be honest I didn't remember the 2008 roster for sure so had to pull it up...for point of sharing here pasted below are the two rosters compared by position groups, I've put the year I feel gets the nod as better each time so that is why you see the order of 2008 or 2023 change at times for each position group:

QB
2008 - Aaron Rodgers / Matt Flynn
2023 - Jordan Love / Sean Clifford
*I give 08' a nod here probably out of sheer hindsight creates biasness when dealing with one of the best EVER...but retrospectively it is quite a close thing 2008 Rodgers to 2023 Love from a known commodity.

RB
2023 - Aaron Jones / AJ Dillon and company
2008 - Ryan Grant / Brandon Jackson
*IMO 2023 by A LOT

TE
2008 - Donald Lee / Jermichael Finley / Tory Humphrey
2023 - Deguara / Musgrave / Kraft
*This is honestly a tie IMO...Finley was no more known than Musgrave or Kraft are and Deguara and Lee had similar experience, but Lee JUST SLIGHTLY due to that one year he had nearly 600 yards prior.

WR
2008 - Jordy Nelson / Greg Jennings / Donald Driver / James Jones / Ruvell Martin
2023 - Watson / Doubs / Reed / Wicks / Toure
*On the surface quickly would go 2008...but remember Nelson was a rookie in 2008, Jones was in 2007...Driver and Jennings however STILL provide a clear 2008 win by proven results with Jones promising rookie campaign a bonus.

OL
2023 - Bakh / Jenkins / Myers / Tom / Nijman / Runyan / Rhyan / Newman
2008 - Barbre / Colledge / Sitton / Giacomini / Wells / Spitz / Tauscher
*Top shelf guys Bakh and Jenkins get massive nod IMO, middle of the lists might lean 08' but we have vastly more experience and depth of "starts" in 2023 IMO which means 23' takes it.

Front Seven (tough to compare as we ran different style...so doing main front 7 types)
2023 - Clark / Wyatt / Wooden / Brooks / Slayton / Campbell / Q. Walker / Gary / P Smith / LVN / Enagbare
2008 - Harrell / Pickett / Jenkins / Pettway / Kampman / Montgomery / Barnett / Poppinga / Bishop / Chillar
*I feel very strongly that this may be the group that 2023 beats 2008 the most (more than RB IMO). Clark and Campbell and Gary are All Pro caliber recently guys, Wyatt and Walker showcased belonging...Slayton improvement for sure and we haven't touched on the rest....2008 had a few VERY SOLID guys but the presence across board just doesn't compare.

CB
2008 - *Woodson / Harris / Tramon / Bush / Blackmon / Peprah / P Lee
2023 - Jaire / Rasul / Stokes / Nixon / Ballentine / Valentine
*Initially when I see Woodson or Harris I quickly went 08'....but I think this is closer than I originally thought but 08' still for sure.

S
2008 - Collins (MY MAN) / Rouse / Bigby / *Woodson
2023 - Savage / Ford / Moore / Owens / Johnson / Gaines / Leavitt
*Collins alone makes 08' get nod...however I'll say we are much deeper with experience and potential in 23'

K/P/LS
2008 - Crosby / Kapinos / Goode
2023 - Carlson / O'Donnell / Orzech?
*Crosby for sure over...O'Donnell for sure over and LS Goode...08' gets nod, Crosby alone at this point in his career I say gets it alone.

In summary:

2008 - Clearly got WR / CB / S / K/P/LS
Close Calls - QB 2008 gets it
Ties - TE group
2023 - Clearly got IMO OL / Front 7 Defense / RB
 
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Poppa San

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RB
2023 - Aaron Jones / AJ Dillon and company
2008 - Ryan Grant / Brandon Jackson
*IMO 2023 by A LOT
I don't think a lot. Some maybe but I perceive a recency bias.
2008 Grant was coming off a rookie season where he just missed 1k yards playing 2 fewer games and not starting half of them. Behind him was more RB by committee than any one player. IIRC it was MMs stubbornness in not starting a rookie until it was painfully obvious. Jones is much closer to hitting the RB wall at this point and age. Dillon is better than anything behind Grant but was more of a disappointment and got stats last season due to lack of competition. Only 3 RB's carried the ball last season and Bahk had as many receiving targets as Patrick Taylor.

ETA: Remove the words obviously and pad level from MMs vocabulary and the man would be mute.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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Now are their any solid takeaways from this? Truly of course nothing concrete, however overall this team is not much unlike the 2008 roster Rodgers entered the season with...lot of unknowns, inexperience, however one thing I didn't compare is the amount of first or second year guys that have projections going UP / some in a significant manner...2023 gets that nod for sure just looking back on the 2008 roster...I mean look at this collection of first or second year guys that season vs 2023:

2008
Rookies
- Jordy Nelson / Brian Brohm / Pat Lee / Jermichael Finley / Jeremy Thompson / Josh Sitton / Breno Gicaomini / Matt Flynn / Brett Swain
2nd Year Guys - Justin Harrell / Brandon Jackson / James Jones / Aaron Rouse / Allen Barbre / David Clowney / Korey Hall / Desmond Bishop / Mason Crosby / DeShawn Wynn / Clark Harris

2023
Rookies
- Lukas Van Ness / Luke Musgrave / Jayden Reed / Tucker Kraft / Colby Wooden / Sean Clifford / Dontayvion Wicks / Karl Brooks / Anders Carlson / Carrington Valentine / Lew Nichols / Anthony Johnson / Grant Dubose
2nd Year Guys - Quay Walker / Devonte Wyatt / Christian Watson / Sean Rhyan / Romeo Doubs / Zach Tom / Kingsley Enagbare / Tariq Carpenter / Jonathan Ford / Rasheed Walker / Samori Toure
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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I don't think a lot. Some maybe but I perceive a recency bias.
2008 Grant was coming off a rookie season where he just missed 1k yards playing 2 fewer games and not starting half of them. Behind him was more RB by committee than any one player. IIRC it was MMs stubbornness in not starting a rookie until it was painfully obvious. Jones is much closer to hitting the RB wall at this point and age. Dillon is better than anything behind Grant but was more of a disappointment and got stats last season due to lack of competition. Only 3 RB's carried the ball last season and Bahk had as many receiving targets as Patrick Taylor.

ETA: Remove the words obviously and pad level from MMs vocabulary and the man would be mute.

I just disagree - Grant hadn't proven anything in just one year, but showed potential just as Jones WR did in 2007 or Watson/Doubs in 2022...Aaron Jones to me is leaps and bounds better player going into 2023 than Ryan Grant was in 2008 quite clearly, but I understand you don't see the spread between nearly as significant.

Dillon did start out the gate ROUGH or sluggish as I saw it, however he ended it well..and is a true RB2 on 80%+ the league which is more than can be said for Brandon Jackson...which speaking of I truly thought he was going to grow into a true RB2 but alas he truly was a borderline RB3/2 as time played on.
 
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I don't think a lot. Some maybe but I perceive a recency bias.
2008 Grant was coming off a rookie season where he just missed 1k yards playing 2 fewer games and not starting half of them. Behind him was more RB by committee than any one player.
From previous year production and not using the following season..

Jones/Dillon 2,492 All Purpose

Grant/Jackson 1,498 All Purpose

Our current RB group in 2022 decimated that 2007 group

AJ Dillon and Brandon Jackson got drafted almost identically #62 vs #63 overall. Jackson was a relative disappointment for a #63rd overall RB.

Trying best not to use hindsight which is hard.
I have 2023 as an A- grade RB room
I have 2008 as a C+ grade room
 
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2008 - Clearly got WR / CB / S / K/P/LS
Close Calls - QB 2008 gets it
Ties - TE group
2023 - Clearly got IMO OL / Front 7 Defense / RB
Good analysis. If I had a 1st year QB in either comparison? I’d take the 2023 scenario (again I’m trying NOT to factor Rodgers entire career, just where we were at entering 2008)

I like having a stronger OL and RB and Defensive front. I Say that even though our 2008 Offense eventually ranked a stellar #5 that year under Aaron. It also got us 6 Wins.
I believe Love might take a little more seasoning to rise up than Rodgers did. So having a premier Run game and potential top 10 Defense is more preferable in a 1 year look. This current Defense could be really fantastic, I’m talking 18 points per fantastic. That’s an area I feel this young Offense can top as king (49ers flavor) as our Offense under achieves in that low 20’s scoring range. I think people in general are underestimating our D right now based on 2022. Add LVN into our pass rush and get Gary back in the 1st Quarter and another year of seasoning for this grouping? I’ll bank $$ that Wyatt takes a jump in year 2. We may not be top #5 on Defense, but I think we crack top 10.

Top #9 scoring D
Top #22 scoring O
Top #16 ST unit
7-10 Wins
 
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tynimiller

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Good analysis. If I had a 1st year QB in either comparison? I’d take the 2023 scenario (again I’m trying NOT to factor Rodgers entire career, just where we were at entering 2008)

I like having a stronger OL and RB and Defensive front. I Say that even though our 2008 Offense eventually ranked a stellar #5 that year under Aaron. I believe Love might take a little more seasoning to rise up than Rodgers did. So having a premier Run game and potential top 10 Defense is more preferable in a 1 year look. This Defense could be really fantastic, I’m talking 18 points per fantastic. That’s an area I feel this young Offense can top as king as they stay in that low 20’s scoring range.

Why enter in something didn't even exist either year?

But to play this scenario out if just looking at both Rodgers and Love as rookies, I strongly believe general concensus was higher on Rodgers by a lot than Love....both were first rounders on many boards, but Rodgers was a dang near 100% concensus first rounder. Love had a few that saw him as a Day 2
 
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Why enter in something didn't even exist either year?

But to play this scenario out if just looking at both Rodgers and Love as rookies, I strongly believe general concensus was higher on Rodgers by a lot than Love....both were first rounders on many boards, but Rodgers was a dang near 100% concensus first rounder. Love had a few that saw him as a Day 2

1st year QB= starting

I would hope We both already know they weren’t/aren’t Rookies.
 
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misread, gotcha.
Np.
where do you think we stack up in 2023 regular season Ranking each unit? Or Where would your betting lines Run? Merely for fun I won’t regurgitate it later. Lol
In 2008 we finished:
O #5
D #22
ST #26 (#32 KR net, #32 Penalties)
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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where do you think we stack up in Ranking each unit. Or Where would your betting lines Run
O ranking
D rank
ST rank

Talking 2023 regular season
As a whole?

ugh.... the three K/P/LS I give to 2008 but the ST team as a whole and Bisaccia I give to 2023 so Special Teams as a whole is a wash to me.

Defense as a whole is a wash because as much as I like the defensive backfield of 2008...I greatly prefer our front 7 of 2023.....

Offense I don't have a wash and do believe top to bottom 2008 gets the nod.
 
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As a whole?

ugh.... the three K/P/LS I give to 2008 but the ST team as a whole and Bisaccia I give to 2023 so Special Teams as a whole is a wash to me.

Defense as a whole is a wash because as much as I like the defensive backfield of 2008...I greatly prefer our front 7 of 2023.....

Offense I don't have a wash and do believe top to bottom 2008 gets the nod.
No I meant where do you think we’ll finish in rank # in each 2023 phase?

In 2008 we finished:
O #5
D #22
ST #26 (#32 KR net, #32 Penalties)
 
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tynimiller

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No I meant where do you think we’ll finish in rank # in each 2023 phase?

In 2008 we finished:
O #5
D #22
ST #26 (#32 KR net, #32 Penalties)

Oh if I was predicting our 2023 offense I don't expect personally above #10 and would expect somewhere between like #13 - #20 / Defense I suspect ends up similar but slightly higher with maybe #8-#15 being my expectations and I personally if we get just a serviceable kicker suspect our ST as a whole is our best bet at a top 10 and suspect similar range of the defense #8-#15
 
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Oh if I was predicting our 2023 offense I don't expect personally above #10 and would expect somewhere between like #13 - #20 / Defense I suspect ends up similar but slightly higher with maybe #8-#15 being my expectations and I personally if we get just a serviceable kicker suspect our ST as a whole is our best bet at a top 10 and suspect similar range of the defense #8-#15
Good stuff.

If we can get a top 50% Offense (exceed expectations) I think we can cause some problems in the NFC. Our 2023 schedule looks relatively easy compared to our normal lineup. Obviously each year has team risers and fallers but just in general this schedule is easier.

A pair of our toughest games are at home (Chargers, Chiefs) which helps
 
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In my opinion our offense entering this season features less talent than the team had in 2008 but the defense should be able to perform at a significant better level than the one it had 15 years ago. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of faith in Barry being able to have them perform up to their potential.

With that being said I expect growing pains on the offensive side of the ball, resulting in the team not getting anywhere close to making the playoffs.
 
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tynimiller

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In my opinion our offense entering this season features less talent than the team had in 2008 but the defense should be able to perform at a significant better level than the one it had 15 years ago. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of faith in Barry being able to have them perform up to their potential.

With that being said I expect growing pains on the offensive side of the ball, resulting in the team not getting anywhere close to making the playoffs.

A lot will need to go our way early as the offense learns and grows comfortable for us to be in the "hunt" for sure. You ain't kidding about Barry....this defensive group should make any DC motivated to do something special but I just don't think Barry has a pulse anymore honestly.
 

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I just disagree - Grant hadn't proven anything in just one year, but showed potential just as Jones WR did in 2007 or Watson/Doubs in 2022...Aaron Jones to me is leaps and bounds better player going into 2023 than Ryan Grant was in 2008 quite clearly, but I understand you don't see the spread between nearly as significant.

Dillon did start out the gate ROUGH or sluggish as I saw it, however he ended it well..and is a true RB2 on 80%+ the league which is more than can be said for Brandon Jackson...which speaking of I truly thought he was going to grow into a true RB2 but alas he truly was a borderline RB3/2 as time played on.
Jones and Nelson were nowhere near as impactful as Watson/Doubs imo. I also think Jones and Dillon are far superior to Grant and Jackson.
 
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tynimiller

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Jones and Nelson were nowhere near as impactful as Watson/Doubs imo. I also think Jones and Dillon are far superior to Grant and Jackson.

I am with you that Watson/Doubs were better rookies than them, but as Capt said they weren't 1 and 2.
 

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I am with you that Watson/Doubs were better rookies than them, but as Capt said they weren't 1 and 2.
I was strictly going on their rookie season play. Nelson had me worried because of his shyness in the middle if the field (for both of his first two seasons) and I always saw Jones as a complementary WR with limited upside. The jury is certainly still out on Watson and Doubs but I especially like Doubs trajectory early on. I don't think Watson has the natural WR instincts that Doubs possesses. Watson in many ways reminds me of Schroeder and Janus.
 
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tynimiller

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I was strictly going on their rookie season play. Nelson had me worried because of his shyness in the middle if the field (for both of his first two seasons) and I always saw Jones as a complementary WR with limited upside. The jury is certainly still out on Watson and Doubs but I especially like Doubs trajectory early on. I don't think Watson has the natural WR instincts that Doubs possesses. Watson in many ways reminds me of Schroeder and Janus.

Watson for sure isn't the most polished of WRs...but his ball skills once that thing is in his hands is special. Trying to think of a comp for him I for whatever reason kept coming back to Tyreek Hill actually....I understand completely different body structures, but neither of them in my opinion possess immense separation skills/ability outside of their sheer speed and twitch...but get the ball in either of their hands and the house is always a possibility.
 

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but remember Nelson was a rookie in 2008
I was kind of surprised when I looked up Nelson's career stats. Really only 4 "big" seasons. Otherwise, pretty pedestrian when AR is your QB. Of course, there were other good receivers on the team during Jordy's time, so the ball got spread around a lot. He also missed 4 games in 2012.

 
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I was kind of surprised when I looked up Nelson's career stats. Really only 4 "big" seasons. Otherwise, pretty pedestrian when AR is your QB. Of course, there were other good receivers on the team during Jordy's time, so the ball got spread around a lot. He also missed 4 games in 2012.

True. In looking back at Weapons, Rodgers got a little spoiled out of the gate. Then fizzled for his 2nd lowest passer rating by 2015. Even then though in 2015? Rodgers still had

*5th year WR (Cobb)coming off a 1,287 yards 14.1 per 12 TD

*9th year veteran WR in James Jones and

*an upcoming Sophomore in Davante Adams


Jordan Love has far less proven Wide receivers. I’d even adjust an earlier guess. If he’s anywhere in that vicinity of
3300-3,400 yards
24 TD
12 INT
Then he’s matched (or possibly exceeded) Rodgers first year due to working with far less experience
 
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