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Colledge demoted

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by tromadz, Aug 15, 2006.

  1. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    P.S. Pyle...a "football player" is someone who has displayed a long history of success in the game of football at the collegiate level...which enhances their POTENTIAL to succeed in the NFL.

    Now, latch onto "POTENTIAL" as the tool of your arguement.

    Every draft is nothing more than potential.......but some have more than others, and history indicates that in any profession, a documented history of performance (as in the type of players we currently draft) is an indicator of future success. We will not know the outcome of these drafts for several more years, but I like their potential better than any in recent history.

    Is a football player or an exciting prospect any less so because they are injured? Hate to break it to you, man...people get injured in football. Would Brett Favre be any less a player because he was injured?

    Now, go ahead and ignnore 80% of what I said so you have something to b1tch about.
     
  2. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    No, I am not writing them off, but I also don't understand why we have to start these guys with a HOF QB that is still capable of leading this team. All TT had to do was get some servicable veterans in here and not throw these guys into the fire right away. As for the Work Force analogy, when is the last time a Multi-Million dollar company hired a guy with no experience to actually RUN the company?


    You make statements such as "TT had a good draft" and DePack and I point out that they have not contributed and then you go back to "they are young." How the HELL could he have a good draft when you just admitted they were young and not done anything yet. Then you revert to potential that EVERY other Rookie in the NFL has.


    It's blind TT loving, period. Trying to toss rookies into spots where they protect your only true chance at being competitive is a recipe for disaster. But hey TT had no money, forget Trades,Free Agents, Renegotiating contracts, not resigning some under-acheivers, etc, because that would take some work. Let's just sit back and make excuses.


    It's what it is, sorry. For everything TT does you can find excuses. 1 year from now we will be using "these guys are young" or "this guy got hurt". It's dodging accountability and should not be accepted by Packer Fans.
     
  3. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    again just problems no answers

    Coming soon to packerforum.com.... "Armchair GM". Starring Pyledriver and DePack.
     
  4. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I like the potential of these young players better than any in recent history...period.

    What do you not understand about the FACT that every draft is betting on potential? There are absolutely no guarantees, but some draft classes have more potential than others. In our scenario, some young guys will have to start and learn as they go...nothing new in the NFL.

    So, tell me, who are some of the "stud" guards you would have come in in the last 2 years? And realize Hutchinson was grossly overpaid and not even a consideration. Who are the players you would have replaced Wahle and Rivera (injured, in decline and overpaid)? Seriously, give me some names.

    P.S. If you are not a fan of "potential" then clearly you are not a fan of how Brett Favre came to be. He was fat, drunk and stupid...but so full of "potential" that Wolf pulled the trigger on the guy. He was pretty much thrown into the fire and flourished. Never said I preferred that these young guys be forced to start, but that is just the reality we face. Sherman set the table and, yes, TT did not fill the holes in the line last year. But again, who are the guards you would have brought in? I do want names..without them your arguement is nothing but hot air.
     
  5. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    With it's sequel in the works "Shermylust". A satirical look at two very good men's love for a fallen leader, written by Tromadz.
     
  6. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Take it easy everybody!!!!! If you just look at contributions to the team, last years draft sucked two years into it. This years draft looks great....one preseason into it. TO made a great point about where we were drafting. I'm not ripping TT for having a sh1tty draft. I'm just ripping people for saying it was a good draft. If Costin or Whitticker had panned out we wouldn't have drafted 2 offensive linemen in the first 3 rounds. If Poppinga looked so promising we wouldn't have drafted 2 LB in the first 3 rounds AND signed a scab LB from Cleveland to be our anticipated starter at minimum wage. If Aaron Rodgers was the answer, why waste a pick on Martin. OK, so I may have gone overboard on the Martin thing, but you get my point.

    The bottomline is it looks like the only longtime contributer from that draft will be Collins and MAYBE....just Maybe Rodgers....but I doubt it.
     
  7. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Depack, when in the hell did you become a peacemaker?
     
  8. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Since some of you guys would rather ignore "WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENT" and just keep sayingthe same things I went and found my post thefirst time you asked me. Enjoy, and let the excuses begin.
     
  9. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Hey...you know me...."Can't we all just get along?"

    I'm not very comfortable being argumentative :wink:
     
  10. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Exactly Pyle...

    Couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly my argument. A few serviceable vets to protect Favre and get a decent run game going. And some legitimate weapons at WR and the Pack would be competing for the playoffs this year.

    Why TT had to throw out the baby with the bathwater and completely dismantle the team to start his rebuilding project is beyond me!

    Just doesn't make any sense.
     
  11. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Trades JW for Colledge and 4 other players. How convenient you forgot that.

    Seriously, who are the guards that TT coulda/shoulda brought in the last couple years? There was nothing but grossly overpaid big name players and lower level journeymen. It is easy to say he should have replaced them...on this we agree....but who are they? Seriously...names.

    Holmgren was a 3rd choice...how did that turn out?

    Sure, pay Hutch $7 million per year...what then do you pay your tackles and what cap implications come into play down the road?

    Simply put, I believe you build through the draft and bring select FAs in to put you over the top....as was the template for our SB years. Clearly, you prefer to build the foundation with FAs and draft to put over the top. Problem is, in that scenario, you will rely on young unproven draft players to put the team over the top. I would rather develop them on the front end. Plus, as has been displayed for the last decade plus...building a team with a high ratio of FAs inevitabl;y leads to cap hell and a total teardown of the team before it can again rise like the proverbial phoenix...ala SF and Dallas.
     
  12. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Pyle,

    The Vikings beat us to Hutchinson, he signed their offer sheet, end of story. Until one of you produces the numbers to legally retain Wahle, that argment does not even factor in here. AADP tried, and couldn't even get close.

    I don't question your loyalty to the Pack, Pyle but I don't understand the basis of your TT hatred. To be honest, I enjoy your posts. They always make me re-evaluate my position in different areas.
     
  13. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    they dont get it... they think its just some fantasy football league where you bring in everyone based on paper and pay them out the *** for it. whos to say hutchinson would have done any better than what we have now.... hed be learning a new system and new style of blocking and new coaches JUST LIKE WHAT WE HAVE NOW.... only he would be worth about 10 million more than what we have now.

    you gotta see the implications of the future...bringin in hutch would be great this year maybe... but next two years how are we gonna do anything else? we would have all our money tied up in an offensive lineman?!?!
    keep stockpiling good young CHEAP talent TT.... your doing a decent job so far.
     
  14. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    what about defense then there TOM... you spend all your money getting servicable vets on the Oline (that come in barely a few steps ahead of our rookies now) and a loud mouth reciever and then we cant get guys like wood, and pickett. but i guess we dont need a defense... just a servicable offense should get us back to the post season
    not to mention we would be in cap hell for a couple more season.
     
  15. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Yeah a bunch of "Special Teams Demons" I suppose. Or maybe a 3rd string QB, another ineffective Guard, and afew 7th rounders that likely won't make the team. Genuis TT, Genuis.

    I just did. Re-Sign Wahle, draft Kuper or Boothe. Pursue experienced players. Goodwin,Hartwig,Allen,Reyes,Fonoti,Steussie,Brown this year. Rabach,DeMulling,Garza,Coleman last year. It's funny that alot of these guys started all 16 games at guard for thier new team in 2005. Bring in FA Tackles and move them to Guard. Trade for a biiger-name, ENDLESS OPTIONS

    Yeah for every one Holmgren there are 10 Rich Kotite's

    It was an option. Down the road we won't have Brett Favre at QB neither.





    Plenty of options.......BUT........TT chose to start 2 rookies on the O-line. What a disaster!
     
  16. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Didn't we fire the last genious that tried this route? We have now come full circle! Whewww!
     
  17. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    You hit it Packnic...this team was devoid of talent in some critical areas and, more specifically, depth across the board, when it was taken over. We now have a very nice if unspectacular DL, depth and quality at LB, a very nice secondary is developing, we are replacing players at WR, we have our TEs...and most importantly, we are BEGINNING to rebuild an O- line that was old, bereft of depth across the board, and in some cases, more expensive than we could afford.

    I would say that in 2 years, a lot has been accomplished. Not everything, but alot. Geez...if only we had Samantha Stevens as our GM...she could wiggle her nose and get it all done in a matter of seconds!

    Yeah, that batch of guards will set the world on fire! Many don't even fit the system because of size and lack of mobility. Some are old and near the end. Some are hacks. There are a couple that might be able to start for us or provide depth, but I will fall on the side of youth in this case. Nobody stands out.
     
  18. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Thats Great! You call Sherman a "Genuis" for ignoring the Defense YET TT ignore the Offense and he is "DOING GREAT"


    Man you guys put more spin on stuff than anyone I have ever seen.
     
  19. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    I gave you names Packnic.......Now run rampant with how Colledge and Spitz are better options.
     
  20. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I like Kuper and Boothe, and would have been happy with either of them. That said, many teams had College rated higher than either. A matter of preference. Then again, if we did draft either one of those guys, we would still be starting rookies.

    P.S. Did you know that Colledge did not give up a single sack after his freshman year? What a hack!!
     
  21. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Exactly Pyle..

    TT could have taken care of the short term, as you suggest, while also building for the long term. But no, he had to dismantle everything and do it his way.

    I mean, you only have Brett Favre at QB for so long, so why try to build around him right? I mean, it's not like he can take your team to the playoffs any better than Aaron Rodgers can, can he?

    My question to the staunch TT supporters is this. What if all of this "depth and potential" that you claim that the Packers have now doesn't turn out to be as great as all of you deem that it will be, and the Packers go .500 or less in the next 2-3 years? Will you still be defending TT then, or will he be another Sherman?

    And will you be decrying the years that were wasted when Favre was still playing for the Pack?
     
  22. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    I'm sure he appreciates your validation.....despite you're (done on purpose) grammar :roll:

    I'm also not surprised that you think he trolls this site. Maybe under the name tromadz?
     
  23. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    DePack, I am willing to allow TT some time to turn this mess around...just as MS had the time to f@ck it up. If TT turns out to be another MS, obviously, there is need for change. But right now, he is doing fine.

    Yeah...MS got to the playoffs..with a talented if disorganized and aging roster he inherited from RR. But every year, you could see the wheels start coming loose as depth was lost, old vets in decline not being replaced, bad contracts offered and signed by the likes of C. Hunt, people like Michael Hawthorne being allowed to even step foot in Lambeau, etc.

    To this day, I have not heard definitively if it was Wolf or Sherman who pulled the trigger Reynolds. Does anyone have a firm answer on this? Just curious.
     
  24. Pudge

    Pudge Cheesehead

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    The idea that the Packers had no veteran options to sign this past off-season is ludicrous. Sure, only Hutchinson was the big name. But that's not what you need for this blocking scheme.

    If the Packers management was prudent they would have signed some low-key veterans to keep the starting spots warm until the young guys were ready. But it's not very smart to go into a season with the intention of starting 2 rookie O-linemen.

    Few rookie OLs have performed well in their first years. And the few that have had usually done so on a veteran offensive line that has several years of experience and have a certain pedigree. Particularly for guards, you need a steady rock at the center position.

    The Packers don't have that, and starting 2 rookies besides Scott Wells is a recipe for disaster.

    I'm going to name some names of veterans that were available that have experience in zone-blocking schemes. Sure, most of them are barely recognizable, but all present better options than a pair of rookie guards, one of whom has never played guard before in his life:

    Trey Teague - starter in Denver and Buffalo at C and LT. Can play all 5 OL positions. Knows the blocking scheme well and could have easily pushed for a starting job at any of the interior spots.

    Barry Stokes - utility backup for the Falcons in '05, starter for the Browns in previous years. Someone Jagz knew and could have easily filled in as a starter at LG or RG.

    Jon Goodwin - played some zone blocking with the Jets, and could have pushed for a starting spot at C or G.

    Bob Hallen - same as Goodwin, except a lot of experience in Chargers zone schemes.

    Steve Neal - Pats don't exactly play the same scheme, but adapting one of their blockers to the scheme is not hard since they are similar. A tough run blcoker at RG.

    Rex Tucker - knows the scheme from his days in St. Louis. A decent starter there and in Chicago.

    To think that the Packers didn't have veteran option is naive. Although only Denver and Atlanta ran this specific scheme prior to this year, other teams like Indianapolis, New England, Chicago, San Diego, St. Louis, NY Jets, and Washington employed similar enough blocking schemes that skimming players from those teams would have been acceptable.
     
  25. packerfanfourever

    packerfanfourever Cheesehead

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    Come on guys we had a great run, the last real chance we had to go to the super bowl was the 4th and 26 year, TT did not dismantle this team.

    Sherman tried to get Brett back to the super bowl by taking chances on some players (joe johnson and others) which was the right thing to do but in doing so we got into cap hell.

    Last year I really don't believe their was anything any gm could of done without making things worse to save our offensive line. We just didn't have enough weapons to make any kind of serious push for the superbowl.

    But lets give TT a chance and see what he can build in 3 to 4 years and next year if we don't get close to the playoffs than we can bitch about TT.
    I sure as heck don't love the man but I sure am going to give him 3 to 4 years to build a team. Concidering the cap hell and lack of depth we had when he got hired.
     

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