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Coaching The Defense

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by El Guapo, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...monday-at-a-glance-b99332956z1-271782491.html
    I know that McCarthy isn't a big yeller and neither is Capers, but the author (above) seems to be strongly hinting that there is not enough accountability in practice for mistakes. I'm a little indifferent in general, believing that there is not one correct strategy for coaching. However, when something isn't working (such as our defense) then its a little easier for me to look at issues like this and wonder if there is some truth to it.

    Thoughts? Should the Packers coaches be more in-your-face about mistakes in practice? I assume that the overall answer will be yes, but I find it hard to believe that there is never any feedback in practice. Something about this report is a little fishy to me.
     
  2. I_am_smoked_cheddar

    I_am_smoked_cheddar Guest

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    Some years back Mike McCarthy was named coach of the year and then he went and coached the Packers to victory in a Super Bowl . The man knows his business and the people who work for him . The questionable people are TT & MM , it's more difficult to cook a great meal when you don't do the shopping. I'm not sure that Coach McCarthy can hire and fire staff . TT selects the players , does he also select Coach McCarthy's staff too .
     
  3. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    From what I've read, McCarthy isn't shy about letting people know what he thinks, often with colorful language. I like the fact it's behind closed doors, and I imagine most of his assistants follow his lead. As far as personnel and coaching moves, it's my feeling that Thompson doesn't do anything unless McCarthy is in agreement. For instance, it's my opinion the QB soon to be in the HOF was let go primarily because MM had made up his mind we had a better chance of winning with Rogers. Thompson then took the heat from the fans when he refused to play the "release me" game. Just my opinion, but it made me like TT all the more.
     
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  4. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    It's difficult to know what works best regarding yelling in practice in today's NFL. Even back in Lombardi's day with all the screaming on the practice field and sidelines, players talked about dreading the film session afterward in which Lombardi was a fierce grader. For example (and I use this as an excuse to retell this story) in the 1966 championship (the year before the Ice Bowl), near the end of the game, the Cowboys had a fourth and goal from the Packers 2-yard line with a chance to tie or win. Dave Robinson pressured QB Don Meredith into an INT by Tom Brown in the end zone. According to Robinson while he was being congratulated by teammates in the locker room, Lombardi growled at him, “You weren’t supposed to be blitzing.” Vince later hugged him on the plane and said it was the game-winning play. Still in the film session Robinson got a minus-2 for that play. IMO a big part of Lombardi’s success was he was a master psychologist. That’s still important today IMO: Some players need a kick in the a$$ and others thrive on encouragement. I don’t think it matters much if that happens at practice or behind closed doors.
     
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  5. Myndflyte

    Myndflyte Cheesehead

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    I think MM knows what he's doing. I mean look at how he changed the running game around last year. And this year he said he was determined to turn around the defense. Plus, when you are around guys for as much as the players and coaches are, sometimes the coach can get what he's thinking across to a player with something as simple as a look. I'm optimistic about the defense this year but I guess we won't know for sure until the rubber hits the road.
     
  6. Eli Haugen

    Eli Haugen Cheesehead

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    I will say that when you get a group of manly men together. You must treat each other with respect. The days of Lombardi and ruling with an iron fist are gone. Packers put it simply that we are looking for self motivated men. If you lose that motivation, you lose your job. Greenbay is known for passing up flashy guys or even more physically gifted guys, for character guys who are self motivated team players... Now that THAT is squared up. No screaming needed to help motivate anymore. All we are trying to do is correct mistakes at that point. Business is business, and emotions are not involved. If mistakes happen over and over, their personal grade will be effected. And greenbay will find another manly man to take your spot...

    You dont want to mess with their zen, or you wont be evaluating their best. imo
     
  7. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I'm sure whenever a corner with a brand new $39 million dollar deal gets beat buy a WR who has little chance of making the team, he hears about it from the coaches.

    Plus, upping the tempo in practice and keeping things moving is more similar to a game.
     
  8. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Speaking of screamers, I wonder how Kevin Greene's absence has affected the OLBs, if at all. He was very vocal but I think he was almost always using positive motivation. Speaking of coaching the D, the coach on the Packers who is the biggest mystery man IMO is Winston Moss. He came to the Packers with McCarthy who knew him in their time together in New Orleans. The next year McCarthy promoted him to Assistant HC/LBs coach citing his leadership skills (and to make it more difficult for other teams to poach him). He started out as the coach of all the LBs until Capers brought the 3-4 and Greene was hired; Moss switched to just ILBs. Now he’s back to LBs coach and he has both the ILBs and OLBs in the same room.

    Of course it’s no secret ILBs have been the target of a lot of criticism. It’s almost impossible for outsiders to know but I wonder how much Moss had to do with that. McCarthy promoted him because of his leadership skills but I seldom hear or read of players talking about him at all, let alone praising him.
     
  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    How did that article tell you that there is no accountability? The article says there is no time, and that happens in the tape room
     
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  10. I_am_smoked_cheddar

    I_am_smoked_cheddar Guest

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    Maintaining an accelerated pace during practice helps negate the cutback in contact practice agreed to in the CBA. Getting as much into practices allows for a greater flow of corrective action. The coaches still instruct on hand and foot techniques to individual players. Breakdowns by the defence are more easily defined and corrected after the fact. If anything , it increases the position coaches working hours (if that were possible). Correcting players on the practice field is still done , but to a lesser degree.
    Coaching is not the largest problem the Packer's coaches deal with. Injury, weather, and schedules aside , Coach McCarthy can only work with the players he is supplied with. If the Inside Linebackers are weak, look not at the players or the coaches ! Don't expect Prime Rib if management only buys ground turkey .
     
  11. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    It didn't. I said that it hinted that there is no accountability in practice. Very different from what you said. The article's author is clearly trying to say that something is amiss.
     
  12. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I completely agree that different players need different styles of motivation and that the league has changed. The author seemed to blame Capers' style and McCarthy's tempo. So one could deduce that the author believes that all players are being handled in the same way, after the fact and behind closed doors.
     
  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    To me he isnt hinting it has to be done at practice..

    The article clearly says

    Just wondering how you take it to mean the reporter says there might be an issue or that he is hinting it has to be done at practice?

    And he does say good or bad...So it is consitent
     
  14. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Why did the reporter wrote the piece? Was he merely just issuing a brief report on the timing of drills and communication, or was he insinuating something with his observations?
     
  15. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    This could explain some things, for a while now our Defensive personnel, with some exceptions, have seemed oddly ok with getting beat. Maybe the tempo of the practices, doesn't just make it harder to coach guys up on defense. Perhaps it gives our defense a bit of a whipped dog personality?
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    From the author
    I can forward the email with headers if you want
     
  17. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    You emailed the author? I'm truly interested. Post the whole thing.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I wasnt going just "Assume" what he was thinking..I wanted to know how he truly felt.




    On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 10:39 PM, wrote:
    http://www.packerforum.com/threads/coaching-the-defense.53781/#post-565362


    You saw his entire reply

     
  19. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    You're really touchy about this for some reason. I don't understand why.

    I'm glad that you emailed the author as it cleared up his opinion on yelling. When I read the original article, I assumed that there was a point to what he wrote as it didn't just seem informational. They can pay 18 year olds to merely report what happened, but we expect most sports writers to offer up their opinions one way or the other. So let's look at this. The author stated that the coaches "whipped" through their session. Then said that the defense got burned badly and that it "just shouldn't happen." Then he pointed out that the coaches don't say anything after bad plays, because the practices move along so quickly.

    You can say that I was reading into that, but to me, it seemed that the author was leading the reader to believe that the tempo and the lack of instant feedback is part of the problem. I don't think that I jumped down anyone's throat about it. I asked if coaches should be more in-your-face when breakdowns occur in practice. Never did I say that they should yell, except for noting that MM and Capers don't tend to be yellers.
     
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  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Not touchy, just thought you assumed wrongly and I had to find out
     
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  21. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    A couple of years ago TT won GM of the year and won a Superbowl. The man knows his business.

    Its not a great meal when you buy filet mignon and your cook serves it with raw eggs and cuccumber sauce.
     
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  22. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    The players are professional men. They did not get to this level by being slackers. Big Mac is a motivator not a screamer. I would think wanting to make the team and play in the SB would be enough of a personal motivator, Mac just gives them a kick when they need it. you don't perform, you don't play.
     

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