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Clinton-Dix at Cover Corner

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by HardRightEdge, May 5, 2015.

  1. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I think there's a case for trying Dix on the perimeter in camp and/or preseason.

    Let's start with Rollins, a guy with upside, but more a strong safety / nickel type who needs a fair amount of perimeter technique work to steal the perimeter job. His flip-run-track-the-ball skills are not ready for prime time.

    Randall has free safety stamped all over him in terms of recognition, angles and ball tracking, while being a suspect tackler and inexperienced at the perimeter.

    While Dix is also inexperienced at cover corner, he's a much more physical player than Randall and thereby a better complement to Shields. He played a fair amount of nickel corner at Alabama, and he's got a year of experience in the system. At the same time, he led the team in missed tackles which suggests he might not be optimal at the free safety position for tackling-in-space ability.

    While Randall has been characterized as an "ankle biter", that's pretty much the technique you need getting at receivers or backs down field in space, and would be a center field complement to Burnett who came on last season exercising his natural strong safety instincts in not having to worry about what M.D. Jennings was doing (or not doing as the case would be).

    Hayward presents several issues at cover corner. He'll be a free agent after 2015. His strength to date has been as a zone nickel ball hawk. When it came time to cover Gronkowski in man, Hyde got the job. I'd think there are teams that run a lot of two-high safety zone who will be in need of a nickel back who would prize Hayward. Since nickel backs are not as highly paid as cover corners, I'd not expect Hayward to snag a House-like contract to play that role, but he should command decent coin.

    So, the issue with Hayward is how much do the Packers want to risk with him in terms of growing pains, if not failure in man coverage on the perimeter, when he may be gone next season.

    If the Packers try this, it works, and the presumptively redundant free safety in Randall is then no longer redundant, I'd bump up my grade for the draft from C+ to something higher.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2015
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  2. ARodsBelt12

    ARodsBelt12 Cheesehead

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    Get TT and MM on the line, I'm sure if you explain this to them and point out how it will bump your all important draft grade they will be very receptive.
     
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  3. XPack

    XPack Cheesehead

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    No wonder this has 143 views and just 1 reply :roflmao:
     
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  4. Luca

    Luca Cheesehead

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    That sounds like a horrible plan! I think that HHCD lacks the speed and the man cover skills to play on the outside. Moreover you would move our best safety to corner. So we would get worse at both safety and corner!!
     
  5. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Man, tough crowd.
     
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  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Give 'em time to digest it. ;)
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    And how do you know they don't have such an idea as a possibility. Perhaps Thompson calling Randall a center fielder when he was actually a shortstop was a Freudian slip.

    They don't know how the pieces fit together yet, so neither do you.
     
  8. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    If Dix is too slow to play cover corner, then he's too slow to play single high safety.
     
  9. ARodsBelt12

    ARodsBelt12 Cheesehead

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    You're right, but the great thing is is that isn't my job, or yours. We have an entire coaching staff to decide how the parts fit. I prefer to watch how the team comes together under the coaching staff and I enjoy seeing the players develop in their roles. Throwing $hit at the wall to see if it sticks is not constructive in my opinion. Let the personnel people do their job and let the coaches coach, we can give our opinions on what we see develop, not try to tell them how to do their job from our computer screens.
     
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  10. Luca

    Luca Cheesehead

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    I disagree. At outside corner he should run with receivers in man coverage! At single high he plays a lot of zone. Than not only speed matter but also other skills like instincts and reaction. I think that we have seen that Dix has great instincts, and therefore he is definitely not too slow to play single high. Moreover Dix is a solid run defender. Those skills would be wasted as outside corner.
     
  11. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    While I don´t agree with HRE´s idea to move Clinton-Dix to cover corner he brings up a valid concern with the Packers secondary. While we have a ton of cornerbacks being able to play in the slot and some safeties to either play in the box or at free safety there is not a single CB on the roster best suited to play on the outside opposite Shields.
     
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  12. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Out of position. Watch the tape.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Constructive to what?
     
  14. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's precisely the point.
     
  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Some may not be aware:

    Hayward Combine: 4.57 with no Pro Day retest;
    Clinton-Dix Combine: 4.58 with no Pro Day retest
    Rollins Combine: 4.57 with no Pro Day retest
    Hyde Combine: 4.56 with no Pro Day retest

    That's a awfully crowded field in the safety/nickel group if speed is all that mattered, with a first rounder and two second rounders in the group. That's an awful lot of draft capital jammed into the same profile. Any critique of Clinton-Dix at cover corner based on speed must also be applied to Hayward, Rollins and Hyde.

    That puts all the eggs in the Randall basket on purely a speed basis. But if he does not take to the technique instruction for cover corner or the lack of physicality shows itself to be a liability, the job is thrown up for grabs, with the first rounder needing to find a place on the field.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  16. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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  17. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Ironically, the key point in Randall's favor is something you won't find on tape.

    If he looks awfully slight on tape there's a reason. It's been reported he put on 14 lbs. between the end of the season and the Combine. That could be a difference maker. Or maybe not.
     
  18. Luca

    Luca Cheesehead

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    But there is a huge difference in 3 cone times an 40 yd times though. The 3 cone tests not only speed, but also quickness, which is also important for corners. (By the way, Rollins is also slow in the 3 cone)

    Hayward: 6,76
    Hyde: 6.78
    Shields: 6.79
    Goodson: 6.80
    Randall: 6.83
    Rollins: 7.10
    Clinton-Dix: 7.16
     
  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The 3-cone does not test backpedal/flip-the-hips/run/track the ball. It doesn't test press technique. It doesn't test tackling technique. Nor does it test knowledge of the defense, film study, and recognition of receiver tendencies and "tells".
     
  20. Luca

    Luca Cheesehead

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    I agree, but neither does the 40 yd dash!
     
  21. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's important, but not the be all and end all. Apply the same observation to Clinton-Dix.

    Do I think Clinton-Dix will end up at cover corner? No, I don't.

    The point is this: The Packers drafted guys in the 1st. and 2nd. round with no cover corner experience past juco.
     
  22. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Rollins played at Miami (OH), which is division 1, not junior college.
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's interesting to watch the second play in that tape. Some things never change...an all-around ILB has to run the seam. ;) That play is labeled 1965...that's a 30 year old ILB, 8 years in the league, with a lot of mileage.

    When you get down to it, finding one who's above average against the run downhill and sideline-to-sideline, and in zone and man coverage, are rare. Patrick Willis-type players only come around so often and you need to have the high pick to get them.
     
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    He played some outside, some inside. I'll give you that. But there is a lot of tape of him playing outside that looks pretty bad in off coverage.
     
  25. RRyder

    RRyder Cheesehead

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    In all fairness you couldve tested Tramon in the 40 the last 5 years and he probably would've ran slower then all listed and he still managed to hold up on the outside for the most part. Also his predecessor Al Harris was far from a speed demon.

    Technique and the ability to run in pads go a whole lot further then a fast 40 time in shorts
     
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