Clay Matthews linked to painkiller

Sky King

158.3
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
2,817
Reaction score
329
Location
Out of the clear blue western skies...
...If Neal happens to be in trouble, nobody here would care, right?
It would bother me because it may cause other teammates to be dragged into this investigation who, hopefully, are not actually guilty of any misconduct other than through guilt by association. Maybe that's already what has happened with Peppers and Matthews. Neal was not an all-pro but he was productive enough to (still) have a job. He doesn't. That's a big red flag for me.

If Peppers and Matthews are not guilty of any wrongdoing then I would hardly be upset that they're being questioned as part of the overall investigation. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear, and it may finally clear them of any suspicion by definitively separating them from any alleged guilty party(s). But if any players are found guilty of PED or other substance abuse then IMHO they need to be fully-held accountable for it, Packer players included. If a player takes their medicine then they must be prepared to "take their medicine."
 

jaybadger82

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
837
Reaction score
83
Whether MLB or the NFL, they could care less if their players use PEDs. What they care about is the appearance that their games are populated by drug cheaters. The wouldn't care if they thought nobody would find out. There is a long history to illustrate that mode of behavior.

Now, whether they are going through the motions or their investigation found some corroborating evidence, I suspect we'll find out soon enough. If Neal happens to be in trouble, nobody here would care, right?

Bingo.

(1) The NFL has broad authority to investigate under the CBA. (2) If the League were really serious about PEDs, it would have improved its testing program long ago. From a PR standpoint (re: player safety), the NFL is obligated to investigate an accusation like this.
 
Last edited:

sschind

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
4,998
Reaction score
1,267
I'm fine with the league investigating the report but if they aren't able to come up with any evidence there's no reason to drag it on for months.

Sadly, that's what the NFL does. Nothing happens quickly. Players apply for reinstatement and they wait weeks and weeks for making their decision. Teams preparing for the draft don't know if they are going to have certain players or not. Its hurry up and wait with them.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
The NFL does have an equipment violation policy, which tampering with the psi is.

There's no such thing like a equipment violation policy. The NFL rulebook regulates the proper psi level of a football. Brady was suspended because of conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game which is regulated by article 46 of the CBA.

If the players had submitted to their interviews in short order, perhaps this would not have dragged for the last 2 months.

While that's true it's hard to understand why it took the league six months to ask the players named in the report to be interviewed.

Neal was not an all-pro but he was productive enough to (still) have a job. He doesn't. That's a big red flag for me.

Neal being named in the report for sure didn't help his chances of signing with another team, especially as he's the only one of the players that had already been suspended for using PEDs.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
While that's true it's hard to understand why it took the league six months to ask the players named in the report to be interviewed.
The investigation leads to the questions to be asked. 6 months is not a particularly long time to pursue leads and craft questions.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
The investigation leads to the questions to be asked. 6 months is not a particularly long time to pursue leads and craft questions.

In most cases I would agree but if there's nothing to be found six months is a long time to figure that out.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Here's another interesting twist to the story:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...l-for-public-shaming-and-bullying-of-players/

"The fact that Harrison (and presumably Matthews and Peppers) have placed restrictions on the questions they are willing to answer could set the stage for further disagreement and controversy during the interviews — and possibly an effort to suspend them after the fact, if they are deemed to have not fully cooperated with the investigation."

As with many reports, reference is made to the PED policy and Article 46 of the CBA. While Article 46 establishes the vague "conduct detrimental" authority of the Commissioner, the "Personal Conduct Policy" established in 2015 spells out the authorities that apply in this case.

That policy states, "Because the Fifth Amendment’s protection against self-incrimination does not apply in a workplace investigation, the league will reserve the right to compel an employee to cooperate in its investigations even when the employee is the target of a pending law enforcement investigation or proceeding. An employee’s refusal to speak to a league investigator under such circumstances will not preclude an investigation from proceeding or discipline from being imposed."

I made an error in an earlier post in saying the NFLPA "agreed" to the 2015 Personal Conduct Policy. They did not. In fact, they sought to have it thrown out in court, but that legal action was unsuccessful. Perhaps this time around they're setting up to challenge this Fifth Amendment provision if the NFL were to suspend one of these players for refusing to answer a question.

Or perhaps nothing substantive has turned up in the NFL investigation, and the interviews are a formality. We await the next chapter in the saga.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
It would bother me because it may cause other teammates to be dragged into this investigation who, hopefully, are not actually guilty of any misconduct other than through guilt by association. Maybe that's already what has happened with Peppers and Matthews. Neal was not an all-pro but he was productive enough to (still) have a job. He doesn't. That's a big red flag for me.

If Peppers and Matthews are not guilty of any wrongdoing then I would hardly be upset that they're being questioned as part of the overall investigation. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear, and it may finally clear them of any suspicion by definitively separating them from any alleged guilty party(s). But if any players are found guilty of PED or other substance abuse then IMHO they need to be fully-held accountable for it, Packer players included. If a player takes their medicine then they must be prepared to "take their medicine."
I agree with that, with one proviso. "Nothing to hide, nothing to fear" is not foolproof.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
In most cases I would agree but if there's nothing to be found six months is a long time to figure that out.
Not really.

Perhaps nothing was found after all leads were pursued, and they'll all be having friendly chats over coffee, with the "interviews" a perfunctory and necessary-for-appearance-sake step in concluding matters. Wouldn't that be nice.
 

JK64

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
1,088
Reaction score
272
There's no such thing like a equipment violation policy. The NFL rulebook regulates the proper psi level of a football. Brady was suspended because of conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game which is regulated by article 46 of the CBA.

No equipment violation policy??? So players can use stickum and leave their shirt hanging out. How about some cosmic shoes, this is all ok because there is no equipment violation policy. Seriously?
 

sschind

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
4,998
Reaction score
1,267
Not really.

Perhaps nothing was found after all leads were pursued, and they'll all be having friendly chats over coffee, with the "interviews" a perfunctory and necessary-for-appearance-sake step in concluding matters. Wouldn't that be nice.

Perhaps, but that again begs the question "what took so freaking long?" I agree that 6 months is not that long in the case of certain investigations but I don't necessarily agree that that has to be the case. I think in many cases investigators purposefully drag their heels hoping that something else turns up.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
No equipment violation policy??? So players can use stickum and leave their shirt hanging out. How about some cosmic shoes, this is all ok because there is no equipment violation policy. Seriously?

As I've mentioned in my previous post the NFL rulebook regulates all important things about the equipment. It doesn't include an article about possible suspensions for violating rules though.

Once again, Brady was suspended based on article 46 of the CBA and not because of a non-existing equipment violation policy.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Perhaps, but that again begs the question "what took so freaking long?" I agree that 6 months is not that long in the case of certain investigations but I don't necessarily agree that that has to be the case. I think in many cases investigators purposefully drag their heels hoping that something else turns up.
Well, you could ask why did it take the NFLPA nearly 2 months to allow the players to submit to interviews when they had already lost a court challenge to the "Personal Conduct Policy".
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
I agree with that, with one proviso. "Nothing to hide, nothing to fear" is not foolproof.
Perhaps this requires some elaboration with a hypothetical example to illustrate the problem.

Sly said about half the Packers expressed interest, including at gatherings at Mike Neal's home, while stating that around 10 Packers were using.

Lets say half the Packers did express interest under the belief that Sly had some legal magic formula, then found he didn't, while Sly's claim that 10 enlisted was a gross exaggeration. But lets say only one player signed up who is not under investigation.

So, despite Matthews and Peppers both being innocent, they might still be posed with the following questions:

"Were you ever present at Mike Neal's home when Charlie Sly was also present?"

"If so, who else was present?"

"Have you ever met Charlie Sly or Chad Robertson, and if so who else was present?"

"Do you have any knowledge of an NLF player using a banned substance provided by Sly or Robertson?"

"[fill in the blank with any other leading or pointed questions developed through the investigation]"

Even if innocent, the interviewee might have such knowledge and be placed in a position where he has to make a choice:

1) He can roll over on an infracting player, or just mentioning players in Sly's presence would cast suspicion on others who may undergo new investigations. Even if the player is inclined to answer honestly, the NFLPA will pressure him not to answer, since their interest is in protecting all players in not wanting to open up a Padonra's box by acknowledging the NFL's broad investigative and interrogatory authority in these cases. On the other hand, refusing to answer a question is grounds for suspension in the broad-ranging powers of the Personal Conduct Policy.

Under this scenario, if the NFLPA persuades a player to refuse to answer, and the player is suspended for that reason, they are likely seeking to go back to court to challenge the Personal Conduct Policy on new grounds pertaining to the NFL's interrogatory authority .

2) Or the interviewee could lie, saying he has no knowledge of anybody doing anything. That's risky, not knowing what the investigator has turned up. If he is caught in a lie, he is subject to suspension under the Personal Conduct Policy, and that would be harder to challenge.

So, while a player has nothing to hide about his own conduct, I think it is fair to say he has nothing to fear only if he in truth knows nothin' about nothin'.

Goodell does seem to be striking the pose of a Kenesaw Mountain Landis after a fashion in stridently seeking to "clean up the game". Of course, Landis did not have a union to deal with and could act in dictatorial fashion. He did however restore confidence in the game of baseball.
 

JK64

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
1,088
Reaction score
272
As I've mentioned in my previous post the NFL rulebook regulates all important things about the equipment. It doesn't include an article about possible suspensions for violating rules though.

Once again, Brady was suspended based on article 46 of the CBA and not because of a non-existing equipment violation policy.

You're making my point!
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,239
Reaction score
7,998
Location
Madison, WI
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
Anyone hear where Neal is at in the process? He seemed to be the one that Charlie Sly was most outspoken about. Then again IMO Sly came off as some kind of fast talking, story telling drug dealer in those tapes.

Neal agreed to speak with league investigators but has yet to.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest posts

Top