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Chris Canty

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Love Pickett, but Big Grease can barely move anymore. His range is limited. But within range, he's the surest tackler on our DL.
    Neal's tackle #'s are going to be lower because he's in on passing downs, while Pickett is out on passing downs.
    Pressures on QB's go to Neal.
    Tackles on running downs go to Pickett.

    But in case nobody noticed, they were all washed away in San Francisco, on running downs.
    I don't think Mike Daniels or Jerel Worthy were any better vs the run than Neal was out there.
    At least Neal was quick enough to beat some blocks.
    Worthy was engulfed time & time again. Then he went and tore the ACL doing nothing other than being a spectator on a Vikings passing play.

    Back to the topic:
    Chris Canty

    Canty reportedly hopes to return to his hometown and play for the Carolina Panthers.
    Playing in nine games in 2012, the defensive end made three sacks after getting four in 2011



    Cullen Jenkins

    The 32-year-old defensive tackle started every game the last two seasons for the Eagles and had 5 1/2 sacks in 2011 and four in 2012. He was due to make $5.5 million before Philadelphia cut him.

    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/photos/1302/nfl-vets-who-need-a-team//16/#ixzz2MUALNe8N
     
  2. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Worthy didn't play in the SF game. I think it is wrong to use the SF game as a yardstick.
     
  3. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    By the way, Pro Football Focus grades Pickett as our 5th most Overvalued Player, and I'm sad & scared to say his play is going to decline further on his big ole' legs.
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/03/02/performance-based-value-green-bay-packers/

    Overvalued
    1. Charles Woodson*, Safety
    Unlike Jones, Woodson’s position change was not an instant success. He started only seven games before breaking his collarbone and missing the next nine. In those seven games he graded positively only twice. It wasn’t that his play was hurting the Packers, it was that his contract was signed as an elite corner and he has aged into an adequate safety. With Woodson’s upcoming $9.5m cap hit in 2013, the Packers already decided to part ways with the veteran safety. He could still land with another team, but it will likely be for a cap number closer to his performance based value from 2012.
    Cap Hit: $11.4m
    Performance Based Value: $1.4m
    Value Differential: -$10.0m
    2. Greg Jennings*, Wide Receiver
    Jennings is another whose value in 2012 was greatly hampered by injury. He made only eight starts in the regular season and played only 435 snaps. Even still, his production wasn’t up to his own standards. His numbers extrapolated to a 16 game season would have reached 72 receptions, 732 yards, and eight touchdowns. His 10.2 yards per catch was the lowest of his career by 4 yards. Jennings Yards Per Route Run was the fourth-highest among Packer receivers, at 1.28, even though he had the second-highest target percentage (20%). Those numbers make it pretty clear why the Packers are content to let Jennings hit the open market this summer.
    Cap Hit: $7.5m
    Performance Based Value: $1.9m
    Value Differential: -$5.6m
    3. Tramon Williams, Cornerback
    In 2012 the Packers had the second-highest cumulative PFF pass coverage grade, and the fourth-lowest passer rating against. What got lost in the success of their secondary was the lackluster play of No. 1 corner Tramon Williams. Williams signed his contract extension in the middle of the 2010 season, and after his great run in the postseason it looked like a steal. In 2011, though, he gave up the most yards in the league and he didn’t improve greatly in 2012. Over the last 10 games this season, including the playoffs, Williams compiled a total grade of -9.9. Williams’ cap hit will only grow the next two seasons, and he’ll have to step it up in order to not make the bottom three again.
    Cap Hit: $7.4m
    Performance Based Value: $2.3m
    Value Differential: -$5.1m

    4. Jermichael Finley, TE – Cap: $5.3m, PBV: $1.0m, Value Differential: -$4.2m
    5. Ryan Pickett, NT – Cap: $5.8m, PBV: $1.6m, Value Differential: -$4.2m


    Undervalued
    1. Clay Matthews, Outside Linebacker
    The Packers are on the verge of two monster contracts, and one will likely be going to Clay Matthews. If it wasn’t for a hamstring injury that kept him out of four games, Matthews could have put up some monstrous numbers. Even still, the fourth-year linebacker was the second-most valuable player on the Packers, and the second-highest graded 3-4 outside linebacker. Something tells me he won’t be on the undervalued list for long.
    Cap Hit: $2.0m
    Performance Based Value: $10.0m
    Value Differential: +$8.0m
    2. Casey Hayward, Cornerback
    Only a rookie, the Vanderbilt product had one of the best seasons of any corner in the league. Hayward’s passer rating against of 31.1 was the lowest PFF has ever seen, and his overall grade of +23.3 was the third-highest among corners. His Performance Based Value was $8.3m despite playing just 63% of the total defensive snaps. Hayward also ended up with the best run defense grade in the Packers’ secondary and was seventh among all cornerbacks in tackling efficiency. After playing 69% of his snaps in the slot in 2012 it will be interesting to see if Hayward can unseat Sam Shields or Tramon Williams for a starting role in 2013.
    Cap Hit: $602k
    Performance Based Value: $8.3m
    Value Differential: +$7.7m

    8. Mike Neal, DE – Cap: $708k, PBV: $2.5m, Value Differential: +$1.8m
     
  4. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    ^^^^
    Those are subjective performanced based rankings based on salary. For example Chris Canty would be ovelvalued I bet based on his $6.25 million with the Giants. That is why they let him go along with salary cap implications for them. But Canty would probably be valued differently in their rankings if he signed somewhere for $2-3 million, i.e. his value relative to his salary would increase.
     
  5. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    This is interesting enough to deserve a whole other thread hahaha. The performance based value thing seems a little bit subjective and exaggerated, but whatever. The only thing that bothers me is Tramon Williams kinda getting the short end of the stick. I would suggest that he was in single coverage more than the great majority of CBs around the league. I suspect he also covered the other team's top receiver a lot more than most CBs. Add to that the generally weak Packer pass rush, and his mediocre numbers don't seem quite so bad.
     
  6. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Of course the performance based value number is subjective and no stat or method of evaluating stats is perfect but there’s a reason Joe Whitt said the following:
    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/187050591.html
    If Tramon had played this season as he did during the 2010 season Whitt wouldn’t be saying there’ll be an open competition for the all three CB spots. I’m glad it’s happening and if Williams goes down a peg or two that’ll be good news for us because I still expect him to be good. In fact I hope his shoulder is even better this coming season than it was this year and he’ll be able to be more physical at the LOS and tackle better. Speaking of tackling, check the link for what Whitt says about Sam Shields. HardRightEdge may be right, he may require a first round tender.
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Williams has an $8.5 mil cap number with a $4 mil dead cap number. It is hard to imagine Williams sitting on the bench when his release would yield $4.5 mil cap savings. I don't know if Whitt is just sending Williams a message, but in the end he'll start or he'll have to go.

    I doubt Hayward will take his spot...he's effective taking 65 - 70% of the D snaps an nickel, he's shy on long speed, and stronger in zone than man. House, on the other hand, is a legit threat to Williams. The guy has looked good when he's managed to stay healthy, and his 4.45 speed works on the island.

    Shields is generally underrated by the fan base. Some teams won't even throw in his direction, and there are good reasons for that. If his name is not called he must not exist? And just as Finley's mouth leads some fans to see more drops than actually occur, I think Shield's shoddy tackling in 2011 has led some fans to overlook his outstanding coverage skills (and improved tackling last season to boot). I view Matthews, Bishop, Shields and Heyward as the core players in this defense when considering performance and age.
     
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  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I enjoyed this article from PFF. The best point was made when they pointed out how many of our "bad contracts" are already off the books for 2013. This speaks volumes on TT. Obviously he could not had Saturday, Driver, and Woodson on the payroll last season but I dont think that would have gone over well with the PR dept.

    I expect to see Cobb and Hayward at the top of the underpaid list next season.

    You should make a thread about the article.
     
  9. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    "Of course the performance based value number is subjective and no stat or method of evaluating stats is perfect but there’s a reason Joe Whitt said the following:
    There will be no guarantees at cornerback for the Packers in 2013. On Tuesday, cornerbacks coach Joe Whitt Jr.made that much clear. When players report back to Green Bay, four cornerbacks may engage in an open competition. Whitt praised the improvement of third-year corner Sam Shields and indicated that Shields, Tramon Williams, Casey Hayward and Davon House will all have an opportunity to start next season. “It’s going to be interesting to see who are going to be the guys who run out there on Day One,” Whitt said, “because right now I couldn’t tell you who’s going to do what because the way that Sam and Casey have played. And with Tramon and House there, there’s four guys that are vying for two spots. Maybe three with nickel. It will be interesting to see who gets it.”
    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/187050591.html
    If Tramon had played this season as he did during the 2010 season Whitt wouldn’t be saying there’ll be an open competition for the all three CB spots. I’m glad it’s happening and if Williams goes down a peg or two that’ll be good news for us because I still expect him to be good. In fact I hope his shoulder is even better this coming season than it was this year and he’ll be able to be more physical at the LOS and tackle better. Speaking of tackling, check the link for what Whitt says about Sam Shields. HardRightEdge may be right, he may require a first round tender."


    I guess I'm just in an agreeable mood tonight. Yeah, it's perfectly fine to have open competition at CB. However, I think that says more about the quality of Shields, House, and Hayward than about Williams fading. I stand by what I said that he had the toughest assignments of the four. We are fortunate to have all of them - as somebody once said, you can never have too many good CBs. That's especially true for the Packers with their shaky front seven (other than Matthews) and questionable Safety situation.​
     
  10. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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  11. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    I completely agree withe assessment that the overvalued based on contract is subjective. Because if Jenkins put up those average numbers after signing a huge contract in GB, this forum would blow up about how stupid it was to sign a player on the decline of his career. Though he played in every game, he wasn't anything special in Eagles. But, our DL has been so below-average, that the thought of bringing him back is enticing. But, only at the right price. The same holds true with Canty. I'm going to be thrilled if we sign him, but only if the price tag is reasonable.
     
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  12. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I don't think what Seifert writes makes Canty's ending up in Green Bay any more likely. He's just saying because Thompson is so reticent to participate in the opening frenzy of UFA, their visits to Green Bay are more noteworthy. IOW, there's no (new) "news" there. With so many teams interested I will be very surprised if he ends up in Green Bay. What was noteworthy was the link (in the link) to Dunne's jsonline blog quoting LeRoy Butler emphasizing the Packers need for a safety opposite Burnett. That's relevant and noteworthy because that's what I've been posting ! ;) And of course LeRoy is unbiased regarding the importance of the safety position.

    Regarding Williams' compensation and cap number, I do think it's possible there will be a real competition at CB. And if Hayward wins the starting spot opposite Shields, for example, and Williams takes one of the outside CB spots while Hayward goes back to the slot position in the nickel I think Thompson will leave Williams' deal in place for one more season. If however, House wins the spot opposite Shields and Williams becomes the fourth CB/insurance policy I don't think he's on the team at his current deal. Depending upon the next CB in line, Williams could be traded for a valuable pick. But if what Whitt said was just meant to light a fire under Tramon's a$$, I'm all for it if it works.

    BTW, Williams' play diminished significantly in 2011 because he was basically playing one-handed (or "one-shouldered"). Part of his game was redirecting WRs at the LOS. He was completely unable to do that in 2011 and didn't do it much in 2012 as I remember. I hope he recovers all - or almost all- of the nerves in his shoulder so he can be physical at the LOS and do better tackling as he did in 2010. But his shoulder may never be 100% again. Having said all that, I think Williams was the best pure cover guy on the team last year, he just hasn't regained his 2010 form.
     
  13. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Back to the topic - reports are Canty is visiting the next two days and scheduled to take a physical tomorrow. Isn't a physical a sign that a signing is imminent? I've always thought the physical was the last step before signing, more or less a CYA to ensure there isn't anything unknown or hidden about a guy. If so, looks like we could be making a splash before FA even begins!
     
  14. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Chris canty would be a good signing. Paul Krueger would be a SPLASH signing.
     
  15. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Teams have to have their health checked out before they even get to the point of considering making financial offers.
    I'm still not holding my breath here...... plus this seems like a player who's best days are behind him.
     
  16. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    Unless your name is Tim Couch and the GM is Mike Sherman.
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...fghAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iaIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4139,4392461
     
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  17. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Didn't we let a 30 year old DE go two years ago because he was too old and injury prone?
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Yes. It was a mistake. The good news is that Canty will not receive a 5 year / $25 mil per year deal (or something like that) as Jenkins did. Times have changed for aging B level players.
     
  19. paulska

    paulska Cheesehead

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    While there have been other recent offseasons where talking heads have suggested that the days of frantic spending in the early days of free agency are doomed because of flattening caps, etc, I will be interested to see if HRE is right on this front. Aside from a couple cap rich teams (Cleveland, Tampa), who can afford to give a player like Chris Canty 6 mil per season to essentially take up space and create opportunities for playmakers a la CM3 to come free to the QB and keep runs to a minimum?

    Remember that Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder are both under sanction for violating last year's cap, which takes two of the biggest free spenders out of the equation, especially given that both teams are seriously cap poor at this juncture and have serious issues resigning key players, AND Al Davis (RIP) is no longer calling the fast and loose shots in Oakland- Reggie McKenzie, our ex-Packer pal, is cap strapped and needing to build through the draft and value FA signings.

    If Canty was going to explode into a 15 sack guy from the interior, he would have done it with Tuck, Umenyiora and Pierre-Paul around him. That didn't happen, and I don't know how you pay an effective space eater huge money to deliver what he never has to date.

    Canty won a title with NYG. If you can't find a big payday, then wouldn't you tend to think that given similar money you'd want to go with the team that has the better shot at another ring? Does anyone trust Cam Newton to play as error free as is necessary to win it all?

    I don't know if GB is where Canty wants to be most, but if TT can read the tea leaves on the kinds of offers he's getting from other corners, and we can get him here for 3-4 years between 2-3.5 million a season, he's an upgrade for us at a position we lack length at, and his presence makes Worthy's recovery and reintegration a lesser issue, permitting the kind of patience that may have made Mike Neal's comeback a lot shorter...
     
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  20. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Some great observations in your post.

    I am by no means a Dallas or a Washington fan. Just wanted to point out that these franchises were basically penalized for violating the salary cap in an uncapped year. If this isn't proof that everyone's favorite league is operating in violation of this country's antitrust laws, I don't know what is...
     
  21. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I
    hope Canty is thinking that way but he may be thinking he already has a ring so he’ll sign for the most money or play in the city that’s his first choice.
    The NFL operates as a cartel – at least that’s what the Supreme Court said - but in the past and present CBAs the union agrees not to file an antitrust suit. And it’s a lucky thing for us IMO because if the teams didn’t work “in concert” with one another the rich teams would have all the best players.
     
  22. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    "I don't think it's the first time in the league that you were wrong on somebody. It certainly won't be my last time and it wasn't my first time."

    Couldn't have said it better myself, Mike.
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I didn't say there won't be frantic spending...just that it won't be for B-level-and-below players.

    Flaco's deal is a frantic piece of work. It sets the tone for the elite players where salary inflation is alive and strong. The money flowing to the top must come out of somebody's back. Even with the modest cap bump this year, it's still below the 2009 level.

    Nobody will pay Canty $6 mil per. His last deal, in his prime, was for around $7 mil, and the cap level was higher then. 3 years, $12 mil at the high end, with a modest guarantee...maybe just the first year. That's if his knee is 100% cleared. Canty was a good, solid B level player, but never a Pro Bowler.
     
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    You know, he was pretty good for a backup; very good for a #4 ILB. Assignment sure, around the ball, decent in coverage. He doesn't generate turnovers and he doesn't do much in pass rush. Hold on a second...he's another A.J. Hawk!

    But these PFF-style advanced stats that paint him as an in-demand FA miss the mark. Nobody will ever call Brad Jones "dynamic" or anything like it.
     
  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The fact there was hardly a peep out of the teams, and no peep at all out of the NFLPA, leads me to believe there is more to this story than meets the eye.
     

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