Charles Woodson and Wis. Protesters

[Forget Favre]

70,000 came out to protest today. That is more than half the population of Madison.

Nearly 70,000 protesters participate in rally at Capitol

Excerpt:
For a second straight Saturday, tens of thousands of protesters filled the streets around the state Capitol, braving temperatures in the mid-teens for the largest day yet in their continuing struggle to stop Gov. Scott Walker's plan to essentially end collective bargaining rights for most public employees.
Madison police spokesman Joel DeSpain said early Saturday afternoon that the number of protesters around the Capitol was on the scale of last Saturday's peak crowd estimated at 68,000 and continued to swell to more than 70,000, possibly approaching 100,000.
"We've had no problems," DeSpain said, adding that officers were again committed to keeping the Square "safe for democracy."
There were lines of more than 500 people waiting to get into the Capitol late Saturday afternoon as officers only let people in as others left.

 

[ivo610]

While they're at it, they should also investigate the death threats made against Walker by several protesters...

Oh wait, investigating their own doesn't really fit their agenda... Never mind.

Your right they should. I don't think either are partisan issues.

I wish everyone not just one party would condem walker for thinking about it and I hope and assume the police are looking into any serious threats. I know they did with Russ more recently.

 

[Forget Favre]

I dunno if those could be considered "Death threats."
And I dunno if a death wish is illegal either.
I'm no legal expert. So I'll leave that up to them.

I don't wish death on Walker but I would like to see him recalled or removed from office ASAP.
He will have to learn to compromise to keep his job.
If his cred doesn't change, expect to see a recall movement very soon if one has not already started.

 

[JBlood]

He can't be recalled until he's been in office for 1 year. Same with the legislators. Regardless, Walker's refusal to negotiate any part of his bill will kill him politically, and rightfully so.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Again, I'm glad I live in Texas. However, that might be changing based on the fact of changing demographics.

I don't know much about this whole issue, but I have about 12 years of being in a union, and my job ended after that 12th year because Honeywell closed us down. The main reason was they were paying too may of us too much in wages for what our "skills" were. And way more than half of the employees were crappy, unmotivated, unincentived people. The union always protected the crap worker, as long as their attendance was fine and they didn't say anything that hurt the feelings of a minority.

 

[SpartaChris]

I dunno if those could be considered "Death threats."

Really? How can most of these NOT be taken as threats? We all saw what that wacko did in Arizona. Governor Walker has every right to feel threatened by most of these comments:

YouTube - Twitter Users Wish Death on Scott Walker

What's funny is if these comments were made about a liberal governor, people would be all over them, condemning them. But because it's against a conservative, it's OK. Go figure...

 

[Forget Favre]

Really? How can most of these NOT be taken as threats? We all saw what that wacko did in Arizona. Governor Walker has every right to feel threatened by most of these comments:

YouTube - Twitter Users Wish Death on Scott Walker

What's funny is if these comments were made about a liberal governor, people would be all over them, condemning them. But because it's against a conservative, it's OK. Go figure...

Well as I was trying to point out earlier, from the vid, those tweets are the thought of "I want him to die" which I think is a wish and different than a direct threat on his life.
I suppose the death threat has to fall under legal terms before law enforcement takes any action.
Yes, we have emotional responses, but that is not enough to convict unless it is against the law.
If we were all convicted just based on emotional responses alone then half of all of us would be in jail while the other half would be executed.
Are those things tweeted against the law? I have no idea.

 

[weeds]

The Republicans in Madison are not concerned with balancing a budget or eradicating a deficit. That's not what they're after. If you look closer, they've attached a rider to this 'deficit repair' bill that would allow the Governor to sell "power plant rights" to a group or entity of his choosing at a time of his choosing.

The first legislation the Republicans now in power passed was a $137M tax cut for business. Guess what the projected deficit is...yeah... $137M. Of course, the Governor has denied that the two aren't related.

This bill is strictly partisan in nature. It is a bill designed to 'kick the opposition while they're down' and keep them down. Their next course of action will be to require ID at the poll. Sounds good right? Well, Republican studies have shown that 82% of all Marquette University students don't have a valid Wisconsin Driver's License for the zip code they reside in. I didn't in college either.

Now, I'm an old school Republican which now makes me an Independent Conservative. Is the public employee benefit plan ridiculous? You bet it is. Do I think the current Governor is smart enough to be where he's at? No...I don't. Hell, he quit college. Nah...this isn't a budgetary battle folks, this is a partisan battle. At one point, they're coming for you too unless you turn a household income of $200K...they're coming for you and they're NOT smart people. Even those of you who hate Democrats (currently called "LIBS") should be very alarmed at what is happening nationally. I say this as a very active participant in the free enterprise system...a guy who in his day-to-day delves in the economies and statutes of 40 US states and a multi-billion dollar real estate portfolio. The people that have been elected to 'solve' our budgetary issues nationally have ZERO interest in solving any such problems.

That said, I'm staying the heck out of this thread going forward...and will limit myself to 'football only'. I LIVE this crap...and am ready to retire and become a forest ranger with no media access.

 

[FrankRizzo]

That said, I'm staying the heck out of this thread going forward...and will limit myself to 'football only'. I LIVE this crap...and am ready to retire and become a forest ranger with no media access.

Yeah, we should leave this in the atrium.... I thought it was there in the first place..... Politics are always divisive. Among family, and among Packer fans even. We don't need that over here.....

 

[JBlood]

Excellent post by Weeds.

 

[TJV]

weeds,

Do you deny that Wisconsin faces a $3,600,000,000 budget deficit over the next biennium? Do you deny the federal government is in debt about $14,000,000,000,000? And if you think those of us who do realize this is a problem are NOT smart, how about those who got us in this mess?

I am glad Walker decreased corporate tax rates because attracting more businesses to Wisconsin is a key to get out of this mess. Union members don’t hire people, businesses do. And businesses can decide where they want to set up shop. Right now the United States has either the highest, or second highest corporate tax rates. Reducing those rates would also be a great idea.

When Greece’s debt approached and exceeded its GNP, the International Monetary Fund made some “suggestions” to save its economy. Here’s a link to a New York Times article titled The Bitter Pills in the Plan to Rescue Greece. Here's quote from that article:

"Among the most significant features of the plan, a Greek government official said, would be a measure making it easier for the government to lay off some of the many thousands of public sector workers, whose low levels of productivity and high wages are a big contributor to Greece’s debt problem. Until now, the government has not been able to lay off civil servants, whose employment rights are in effect constitutionally guaranteed. Another reform high on the list is removing the state from the marketplace in crucial sectors like health care, transportation and energy and allowing private investment."

As I posted previously our national debt is approaching our GNP. We can bury our heads in the sand and deny that its happening. But that doesn’t change the facts above ground.

BTW, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Buckminster Fuller and legions of other successful people didn't graduate from college either.

 

[ivo610]

I was downtown yesterday for something other than the protest but walked around anyways.

Best sign I saw held by some 20 something girl: Walker, cant we just be friends with benefits?

 

[SpartaChris]

Again, ThxJackVainisi knocks it out of the park.

If you don't think tax cuts for businesses are important, as I said before, I live in CA where businesses have FLED because it's too hard to make a profit here due to all the excess taxes they pay. Billion dollar corporations have opted not to put factories, which could have employed thousands, here in CA, instead choosing more tax friendly states in which to do business.

Businesses have a finite level of income and his idea that they should just keep forking it all over in taxes and overhead is just dumb. Eventually folks will figure out that business people are smart and will find a way.. Of course that day will come when companies pack up and leave your state for another, more friendly environment.

 

[Packerstud]

This is a disturbing thread. There are other FORUMS for this kinda ****.

Why do we need this in our football world?

 

[SpartaChris]

This is a disturbing thread. There are other FORUMS for this kinda ****.

Why do we need this in our football world?

A Packer player made a comment on the situation and we engaged in a (Mostly) civil discussion. Not to be rude, but if you don't like it, there is an unsubscribe button. You can also not comment in the first place, so you don't get auto subscribed. You're not obligated to read and participate in the discussion. No biggie.

 

[Packerstud]

Forums are places for us to discuss things. I gave my opinion. Seems like any post in this thread will **** people off.

This thread is no longer discussing Charles Woodson, it has deteriorated in to a political fight.

I have very strong views on this subject but I save them for a different forum. For me this is a place to escape this stuff.

Like I said, it seems like any post in this thread will **** people off.

 

[SpartaChris]

OK, well, like I said- You aren't required to participate in the discussion either. The mods are and have been watching, and so far things have been more or less civil.

 

[LAG]

Nobody wants their pay or benefits cut and people are fed up with more taxes. Very few politicians have the gall to make cuts (Walker) because you'll have folks screaming at you. Tough situation all around these days.

 

[SpartaChris]

Nobody wants their pay or benefits cut and people are fed up with more taxes. Very few politicians have the gall to make cuts (Walker) because you'll have folks screaming at you. Tough situation all around these days.

It's true, no one likes pay cuts and people are sick of feeling like they're taxed to death. That's why people rail so hard against the public workers unions. There's absolutely NO reason why they should continue to enjoy all of the perks and benefits they were given when times were good. Times aren't good, hardworking people are making sacrifices all over, and it's unreasonable to expect immunity just because you work for the state government.

As for Walker, good on him for having the stones to take on teh public workers. Here in CA, you will never see a single politician show the kinds of stones he has. Like social security, it's the third rail here in CA, a nail in the political coffin. Sucks, because they really are a huge reason why our state is in the toilet.

 

[Forget Favre]

The Republicans in Madison are not concerned with balancing a budget or eradicating a deficit. That's not what they're after. If you look closer, they've attached a rider to this 'deficit repair' bill that would allow the Governor to sell "power plant rights" to a group or entity of his choosing at a time of his choosing.

The first legislation the Republicans now in power passed was a $137M tax cut for business. Guess what the projected deficit is...yeah... $137M. Of course, the Governor has denied that the two aren't related.

This bill is strictly partisan in nature. It is a bill designed to 'kick the opposition while they're down' and keep them down. Their next course of action will be to require ID at the poll. Sounds good right? Well, Republican studies have shown that 82% of all Marquette University students don't have a valid Wisconsin Driver's License for the zip code they reside in. I didn't in college either.

Now, I'm an old school Republican which now makes me an Independent Conservative. Is the public employee benefit plan ridiculous? You bet it is. Do I think the current Governor is smart enough to be where he's at? No...I don't. Hell, he quit college. Nah...this isn't a budgetary battle folks, this is a partisan battle. At one point, they're coming for you too unless you turn a household income of $200K...they're coming for you and they're NOT smart people. Even those of you who hate Democrats (currently called "LIBS") should be very alarmed at what is happening nationally. I say this as a very active participant in the free enterprise system...a guy who in his day-to-day delves in the economies and statutes of 40 US states and a multi-billion dollar real estate portfolio. The people that have been elected to 'solve' our budgetary issues nationally have ZERO interest in solving any such problems.

That said, I'm staying the heck out of this thread going forward...and will limit myself to 'football only'. I LIVE this crap...and am ready to retire and become a forest ranger with no media access.

Excellent post by Weeds.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Forget Favre]

Nobody wants their pay or benefits cut and people are fed up with more taxes. Very few politicians have the gall to make cuts (Walker) because you'll have folks screaming at you. Tough situation all around these days.

Your right.
I'm glad I'm not him because I wouldn't know what to do.

But I do know that I should not:
1) Make offers of power plants to my biggest contributors only.
2) Even think of planting trouble makers and infiltrators into the crowds of protestors.
3) Suggest to take away bargaining rights and other suggestions to F with state workers and unions.

That's what is the most baffling to me. Is that this guy should be politicly savvy enough to not suggest making changes to the what state workers are used to.
Of course no one could have seen these mass protests coming, but why would one think that union supported workers wouldn't raise hell or have anything to say about it?
Seems like it's an abuse of power and trying to take advantage of having the majority of a party in the state Capitol.
And then I remind myself that Walker is a college dropout and then that explains why he is the way he is.

Everyone makes mistakes and Walker has made a big one. This will not be forgotten about during his re-election. He has shot himself in the foot. He is the Sarah Palin of Wisconsin.

 

[LAG]

Everyone makes mistakes and Walker has made a big one. This will not be forgotten about during his re-election. He has shot himself in the foot. He is the Sarah Palin of Wisconsin.

Really? I look at him more as a man looking out for the future of the great state of Wisconsin, that is teetering on the brink of a huge fiscal black hole. He is someone willing to stand up against leftist minority opinion and do what it takes put 'er back on the path to prosperity.

The unions have the tax payers 'nads firmly in their grip and do not wish to let go. They are looking out for their own welfare above that of the people of Wisconsin as a whole. Why would they wish to give up their golden calf without a fight?

 

[JBlood]

Well, it's apparent that a lot of people think that if we could just get all of these public employees to accept $10/hr with no benefits it would solve problems forever. Let the lazy sob's pay for their own health care and retirement. If they're smart, they'll save enough for those things after spending enough to keep the economy going.

Then do the same with all of the workers in the country, union or not.

Then eliminate all taxes for the hard working people that make lots of money, since taxes are a drain on business and serve no purpose other than making the trickle down effect more difficult.

Bingo, no financial problems. It's so simple.

 

[TJV]

JBlood,

I missed those posts, could you point out several since you believe "a lot of people think..."?

There's a huge difference between advocating $10/hour and asking public employees to pay more for their rich benefit packages and if Walker's plan passes they would have to accept a collecting bargaining deal that is still better than that of federal employees. Again, the average Milwaukee school teacher receives a little more than $100,000 of salary and benefits for 9 months work. Asking them to pay 5.8% for their defined benefit pension and 12.6% of their health insurance premium is a long way from $10/hour, don't you think? And if the plan passes, not one public employee would have to be laid off. Any friends, neighbors or relatives of yours victims of the real unemployment rate of 17-18%?

 

[JBlood]

JBlood,

I missed those posts, could you point out several since you believe "a lot of people think..."?

There's a huge difference between advocating $10/hour and asking public employees to pay more for their rich benefit packages and if Walker's plan passes they would have to accept a collecting bargaining deal that is still better than that of federal employees. Again, the average Milwaukee school teacher receives a little more than $100,000 of salary and benefits for 9 months work. Asking them to pay 5.8% for their defined benefit pension and 12.6% of their health insurance premium is a long way from $10/hour, don't you think? And if the plan passes, not one public employee would have to be laid off. Any friends, neighbors or relatives of yours victims of the real unemployment rate of 17-18%?

No, if Walker's plan passes, there will be no collective bargaining. The union has already offered to accept the idea of paying more for their benefits. This bill is primarily aimed at removing the unions. Remember, much of the projected deficit is due to the tax cuts that Walker just passed. So it's much more than the money.

Decreasing pay and benefits will not solve our economic problems, unless you want us to become another Mexico.