Charles Woodson and Wis. Protesters

[SpartaChris]

Most of the time I side with private companies as well, I work for a non-unionized company and wouldn't support a union for it, but things are becoming way too one-sided. We can't rely on the government to help even the scale because private companies fund their campaigns and essentially run this country.

It seems as though there's nothing helping the average worker out anymore and that we should just have to trust the companies we work for...it's a little unsettling watching one side win all the time.

What's wrong with expecting average workers to help themselves? Go back to school, get a degree and you become more employable. Don't like the conditions of the company you're working for? Go work elsewhere, or start your own business.

Seems to me people are more about making excuses and blaming others for their failures than they are about taking charge and being responsible for their own lives.

FWIW, I don't like seeing American businesses moving over-seas either, but I don't blame them for my failures. I also understand it's a smart business decision.

Part of our problem is we've become too reliant on the government to provide for us when ultimately it's up to us to provide a good living for ourselves and our families.

 

[fettpett]

Crisis in Dairyland - Revenge of the Curds - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 02/21/11 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

idiot damn near killed a camel yesterday with that stunt
Video: The Daily Show starts camel crisis at the Capitol! - Isthmus | The Daily Page

 

[ivo610]

Ask any economist and they will tell you that raising taxes during a recession is political and economical suicide.

LOL Really? Reagan and Clinton did. But your right it was political suicide, as Ronnies approval rating went down to 35%. But later when America had 17 million more jobs his approval rating went up. Clinton raised taxes as well on the wealthy and added 23 million jobs at the end of his term.

 

[SpartaChris]

wall st could learn a thing from this guy.

I won't knock a guy for making millions as the CEO of a major corporation, but he's dead on when he says corporations who are run by those who seek money first tend to not last long.

One of my goals is to become the manager of a hedge fund. I trade stocks specifically so I can make money. I don't "invest" in companies, but rather I prefer to ride the trends of strong stocks in order to make a profit.

One of the reforms I would like Wall St. to make is the reporting of their earnings. Rather than quarterly earnings, I think they should report them bi-annually. This would make companies focus more on genuine business growth, and less on making the quick buck.

Greed is an ugly animal that encompasses everyone, not just those who work on wall street or run major corporations. Every single one of us has been greedy at one time or another. Ever ask for a pay raise for doing the same work you did when you started? That's greed. How about seeking new employment so you can make more money, when the fact is you don't *need* it? That's greed too.

Even we as fans demonstrate greed. We want more wins, more championships, what we have is never enough. That's greed, pure and simple, and we're all guilty of it.

 

[jkrelt]

A lot of people are saying that pro-laborers should just live with the 2010 election results. I can't help but cringe when I hear that because when you look at Scott Walker's Educational Platform that he used during the campaign, you'll see no mention about altering collective bargaining, pensions, 401ks, workers rights, class sizes, working conditions, etc... only buzz words like "STEM" and "Recruit, Retain and Reward" are used (i.e. he generally ran a neutral education campaign from what I can see). If I was a Wisconsin voter, I'd feel pretty jaded about this apparent bait and switch. Even on his website, under the heading of "REFORM" he doesn't talk about education reform, he talks about how he wants to "Restore Wisconsin’s reputation for clean and honest government" I am laughing with a chicken sandwich in my mouth.

We know that Wisconsin is broke. Money too tight to negotiate. So why weren't police and firefighters union rights affected whatsoever? Unsurprisingly, Walker accepted campaign funds from both these groups. Does anyone think that there is truly a "public safety" issue that Walker was afraid of? If so, wouldn't that apply to the nurses union as well who got hit hard? Someone from Wisconsin who is informed, I'm all ears because I (an many other interested ppl from out of state) truly am interested in an objective answer to this question. I guess the larger question is..to all you self proclaimed economics experts, is this even a fiscal issue? After all, the teachers offered up all the budget, wage, and benefit cuts; forfeiting $300 M over three years alone.

So all political trash talking aside, whats the deal with leaving police and firefighters out of this?

 

[SpartaChris]

LOL Really? Reagan and Clinton did. But your right it was political suicide, as Ronnies approval rating went down to 35%. But later when America had 17 million more jobs his approval rating went up. Clinton raised taxes as well on the wealthy and added 23 million jobs at the end of his term.

I'm too young to remember much of Reagan's presidency, but Clinton's job creation numbers are more because he was lucky enough to be in office during the great tech boom of the 90's. It's impossible to say whether the tech boom was a direct result of his raising taxes on the rich, or just luck. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

 

[SpartaChris]

So all political trash talking aside, whats the deal with leaving police and firefighters out of this?

It's gotta be purely strategic. Can't really afford to have public safety workers walking off their jobs while he's fighting the teachers union, which is another reason why public worker unions should be abolished entirely.

 

[YoKramer]

Most of the time I side with private companies as well, I work for a non-unionized company and wouldn't support a union for it, but things are becoming way too one-sided. We can't rely on the government to help even the scale because private companies fund their campaigns and essentially run this country.

It seems as though there's nothing helping the average worker out anymore and that we should just have to trust the companies we work for...it's a little unsettling watching one side win all the time.

The ABSOLUTE LAST thing we want to do is go to the Government for anything more than we are now.

Its a 2 way street. The Corporations want to spend less on parts/labor and will do almost anything to get that while the Unions (Under protection from CBAs) threaten to walk out and screw over the people they are working for if they dont get their way.

 

[ivo610]

I'm too young to remember much of Reagan's presidency, but Clinton's job creation numbers are more because he was lucky enough to be in office during the great tech boom of the 90's. It's impossible to say whether the tech boom was a direct result of his raising taxes on the rich, or just luck. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

(shrugs) it would be no different than a democrat believing Reagan had nothing to do with the fall of the soviet union and just was in office at the right time.

 

[YoKramer]

What's wrong with expecting average workers to help themselves? Go back to school, get a degree and you become more employable. Don't like the conditions of the company you're working for? Go work elsewhere, or start your own business.

Seems to me people are more about making excuses and blaming others for their failures than they are about taking charge and being responsible for their own lives.

FWIW, I don't like seeing American businesses moving over-seas either, but I don't blame them for my failures. I also understand it's a smart business decision.

Part of our problem is we've become too reliant on the government to provide for us when ultimately it's up to us to provide a good living for ourselves and our families.

Wish I could like this multiple times. Great post.


We need to stop relying on the Government and others in attaining the things we want. Personal Responsibility has gone by the wayside and is the real reason we are in a lot of the problems we are, on top of people not realizing we The People have a lot more of a voice than they realize.



Edit: FUUUUUU the system here for not auto quoting w/ quick reply like the main forum I post on rofl

 

[Forget Favre]

The 100 Best Protest Signs At The Wisconsin Capitol: Pics, Videos, Links, News

 

[YoKramer]

The 100 Best Protest Signs At The Wisconsin Capitol: Pics, Videos, Links, News

Wow, those people need to get a job.

 

[SpartaChris]

(shrugs) it would be no different than a democrat believing Reagan had nothing to do with the fall of the soviet union and just was in office at the right time.

Eh, not really the same thing. Can't really compare a boom/bust type economy to foreign policy.

 

[jkrelt]

It's gotta be purely strategic. Can't really afford to have public safety workers walking off their jobs while he's fighting the teachers union, which is another reason why public worker unions should be abolished entirely.

I could understand this argument when it comes to the police workers...you need police to keep the teachers in check during protests. But do you need firefighters to help against protests too? Sure, there are fires out there that need to be put out...but there is a larger everyday demand for nurses in WI hospitals. I thought Wisconsin was completely broke. Whats with the double standard? If you're going to adjust public workers rights, don't make special exceptions down political lines.

I'm surprised that more of Walker's followers don't speak up about this. After-all, those rich, irrational and greedy firefighter unions are taking your tax dollars, Wisconsin. In a time of economic turmoil, firefighters are still allowed to keep their fat checks and ridiculous pensions while even the right wing turns a blind eye?? Most informed people are calling this dirty politics. What do you think?

 

[LAG]

The Fire fighters and the Police union contributed to Walkers campaign-election fund, I believe.

I could be wrong, again.

 

[SpartaChris]

I could understand this argument when it comes to the police workers...you need police to keep the teachers in check during protests. But do you need firefighters to help against protests too? Sure, there are fires out there that need to be put out...but there is a larger everyday demand for nurses in WI hospitals. I thought Wisconsin was completely broke. Whats with the double standard? If you're going to adjust public workers rights, don't make special exceptions down political lines.

I'm surprised that more of Walker's followers don't speak up about this. After-all, those rich, irrational and greedy firefighter unions are taking your tax dollars, Wisconsin. In a time of economic turmoil, firefighters are still allowed to keep their fat checks and ridiculous pensions while even the right wing turns a blind eye?? Most informed people are calling this dirty politics. What do you think?

I think I don't live in Wisconsin and don't know of his affiliations. I also have a hard time finding unbiased information about the subject; Everything I look up seems to have some kind of political slant to it, one way or the other.

I don't know about the pension situations with the public safety workers in Wisconsin, but here in CA, they too are in desperate need of an overhaul.

 

[fettpett]

The Fire fighters and the Police union contributed to Walkers campaign-election fund, I believe.

I could be wrong, again.

huh, no, they contributed to Tom Barret's campaign and backed him in the election

 

[jkrelt]

I think I don't live in Wisconsin and don't know of his affiliations. I also have a hard time finding unbiased information about the subject; Everything I look up seems to have some kind of political slant to it, one way or the other.

I don't know about the pension situations with the public safety workers in Wisconsin, but here in CA, they too are in desperate need of an overhaul.

I'm sorry thats happening in CA. But this thread is about the great state of WI where Walker is playing power politics at the expense of teachers and nurses while other government workers (police & firefighters) are left untouched. You could say that the police and firefighters were able to buy their salvation in Wisconsin off of Scott Walker. There is something fundamentally wrong here and I think everyone ought to be opinionated on the facts of the subject.

 

[SpartaChris]

The Fire fighters and the Police union contributed to Walkers campaign-election fund, I believe.

I could be wrong, again.

Turns out this is a bit of an exaggeration as well. He got the support of Milwaukee police and fire fighter's unions, but not the state unions, which are bigger. From Politifact:

Walker didn’t get the endorsements of two statewide unions, the Wisconsin Professional Police Association and the Professional Fire Fighters of Wisconsin, which both backed Barrett.

For the record, the governor told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the charge that he was exempting police and firefighters was "ridiculous." He said he didn't recommend changing the rules for police officers and firefighters because he didn’t want public safety work disrupted.

We then contacted the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, the statewide union that endorsed Walker's opponent last year. Executive director Jim Palmer said the statewide organization is much larger than the local Milwaukee police union that endorsed Walker. The state group has approximately 11,000 members versus Milwaukee’s roughly 1,400, he said.

Similarly, the state firefighters association has more than 3,000, compared with the Milwaukee union’s 875.

Source: PolitiFact | Donna Brazile says that unions that supported Scott Walker are exempt from restrictions on collective bargaining

 

[ivo610]

Wow, those people need to get a job.

not everyone works on the weekend....

If its during the week most of them are college kids that I have seen on the news/facebook/random pics.

Not to say there arent people that shouldnt be taking off of work but to group everyone as unemployed is ignorant.

 

[fettpett]

I'm sorry thats happening in CA. But this thread is about the great state of WI where Walker is playing power politics at the expense of teachers and nurses while other government workers (police & firefighters) are left untouched. You could say that the police and firefighters were able to buy their salvation in Wisconsin off of Scott Walker. There is something fundamentally wrong here and I think everyone ought to be opinionated on the facts of the subject.

they wont be left untouched. he was suppose to have a speech on his full budget proposal today but it was pushed back due to all this ****

 

[ivo610]

Eh, not really the same thing. Can't really compare a boom/bust type economy to foreign policy.

No, it is. Im obviously not comparing the economy and foreign policy, Im comparing Right wingers not wanting to give credit to Clinton because they dont feel he had much to do with the economy to left wingers not wanted to give reagan credit for the fall of the soviet union. Its about two parties doing the same thing and getting mad at the other side for doing it. Like Fox news giving credit to the tea partiers but bashing the wi protests, or the other way around on msnbc.

 

[PackersPete]

I think you have this wrong.

"I HATE corporations. I think they're corrupt, vile leeches who really serve no purpose in today's society other than to extort society until they bleed them dry."

There's a reason why 90% of our society has remained financially stagnant over the past 30 years. Corporations have taken over, squashed private sector unions, made record profits, slashed pay/benefits. I mean the writing's on the wall, all the rules favor big business, it's all about the bottom line, the middle class is dying while companies are making a killing paying pennies for manufacturing. But of course, the unions are evil. Unions are hardly perfect, good and bad, but come on, corporations are bamboozling this country and laughing all the way to the bank while most of this country is scrimping for everything. It's a ******* joke.

You're leaving one thing out...this is still a free coutry where corporations can exist. They're free to bamboozle as long as you're free to buy their products.

 

[ivo610]

latest video of madison protesters
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkFos6Jmipg&feature=related]YouTube - Burning Man 2009 Dubstep Montage[/ame]

 

[LombardiChick]

Turns out this is a bit of an exaggeration as well. He got the support of Milwaukee police and fire fighter's unions, but not the state unions, which are bigger. From Politifact:



Source: PolitiFact | Donna Brazile says that unions that supported Scott Walker are exempt from restrictions on collective bargaining

Thanks to you and fettpett for correcting that myth - it's very widespread so I easily can see why people believe and repeat it - the news media, which had easy access to the truth, ran all sorts of speculative stories about it, but Walker only got a small handful of those endorsements. I posted about it too, but I think it was on the other thread about all this.

I have no problem listening to that side of the story, but I'd like the truth from the media. Maybe I'm asking too much. LOL