Changing of the guard on the DL

[Deleted member 6794]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...n-pickett-johnny-jolly/11640681/?sf27904902=1

There are some interesting tidbits in the story like the nine guys on the roster striclty listed at DL having a combined experience of only 17 years with an average age of 24.1 years with no one older than 28. Jolly´s agent told the Press Gazette that he has been cleared to return after neck fusion surgery (I would like the Packers to bring him back if Dr. McKenzie clears him as well).

 

[rodell330]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...n-pickett-johnny-jolly/11640681/?sf27904902=1

There are some interesting tidbits in the story like the nine guys on the roster striclty listed at DL having a combined experience of only 17 years with an average age of 24.1 years with no one older than 28. Jolly´s agent told the Press Gazette that he has been cleared to return after neck fusion surgery (I would like the Packers to bring him back if Dr. McKenzie clears him as well).

I watched that game and his injury didn't even look that serious. My first initial thought was he pinched a nerve then he never came back the rest of the season. jolly IMO was our best linemen last yr so why not bring him back?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I watched that game and his injury didn't even look that serious. My first initial thought was he pinched a nerve then he never came back the rest of the season.

Take a look back at Collins´ injury, that didn´t made me think it was serious either. Severe neck injuries don´t always result out of a big hit like the one Finley suffered.

 

[rodell330]

Take a look back at Collins´ injury, that didn´t made me think it was serious either. Severe neck injuries don´t always result out of a big hit like the one Finley suffered.

Johnathan Stewart has tree trunk thighs. Once I saw the crown of Collins helmet make contact with it going at full speed I knew he was done. Did I think it would end his career? Nope not for one second...most I thought was a concussion.

 

[TJV]

I’d like to see Jolly return if his return doesn’t jeopardize extending Nelson and Cobb (and I don’t think it would). Not only because the DL may need more bulk but because of the attitude he brought to the DL and the D generally. He would also provide competition for Guion and Boyd.

Speaking of attitude, I love Daniels’ comments about taking on the leadership reigns; his play warrants it. However, he may want to re-think, “If you deck somebody in the locker room because you had a disagreement, there's not going to be any sensitivity training.” Unfortunately in today’s NFL sensitivity training may indeed be required. But I don’t think he’ll have to deck anyone to lead.

This is still the great mystery of the 2013 Packers defense to me: “The Packers boasted the third-best run defense through the first seven weeks of last season.” To go from #3 to #25 in a nine-game span is almost unbelievably bad. And Rodgers' injury two games later doesn't explain it IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I’d like to see Jolly return if his return doesn’t jeopardize extending Nelson and Cobb (and I don’t think it would).

While Jolly will probably ask for a little bit more than the veteran minimum I don´t think the Packers re-signing him would have any influence on them being able to extend Nelson and Cobb.

 

[PWT]

I’d like to see Jolly return if his return doesn’t jeopardize extending Nelson and Cobb (and I don’t think it would). Not only because the DL may need more bulk but because of the attitude he brought to the DL and the D generally. He would also provide competition for Guion and Boyd.

Speaking of attitude, I love Daniels’ comments about taking on the leadership reigns; his play warrants it. However, he may want to re-think, “If you deck somebody in the locker room because you had a disagreement, there's not going to be any sensitivity training.” Unfortunately in today’s NFL sensitivity training may indeed be required. But I don’t think he’ll have to deck anyone to lead.

This is still the great mystery of the 2013 Packers defense to me: “The Packers boasted the third-best run defense through the first seven weeks of last season.” To go from #3 to #25 in a nine-game span is almost unbelievably bad. And Rodgers' injury two games later doesn't explain it IMO.

The momentum was lost after the 7 th game of 2013 season , when Pickett had a knee injury and Jolly finished the season on IR ,because of bulging disk that required surgery in January. B J Raji had very poor (2013) year at DE and will be moving back NT in 2014

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The momentum was lost after the 7 th game of 2013 season , when Pickett had a knee injury and Jolly finished the season on IR ,because of bulging disk that required surgery in January. B J Raji had very poor (2013) year at DE and will be moving back NT in 2014

Jolly was injured in week 15, that doens´t explain the downfall of the run defense starting in week 7.

 

[rodell330]

Jolly was injured in week 15, that doens´t explain the downfall of the run defense starting in week 7.

I agree. The run defense disappeared quicker than a box of donuts at a police station. I think Capers plays to much nickle at times but our lbs weren't very good against the run neither were our safeties. That had a lot to do with it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree. The run defense disappeared quicker than a box of donuts at a police station. I think Capers plays to much nickle at times but our lbs weren't very good against the run neither were our safeties. That had a lot to do with it.

I don´t think playing a lot of nickel had anything to do with the decline of the run defense. The Packers lined up in that formation in the first few weeks as well and they were able to stop the run. In addition teams gained a ton of yards when Capers lined them up in the base (just take a look at the last drive vs. the Eagles as an example).

 

[armand34]

probably a lot had to do with us not putting up any points w/o Rodgers for half the season

 

[Deleted member 6794]

probably a lot had to do with us not putting up any points w/o Rodgers for half the season

That explanation lets the defense off the hook way too easy. Only one of the six teams holding opponents to under 100 rushing yards per game last season had a top 10 scoring offense, one of them scored even less points than the Packers did while Rodgers was out.

 

[rodell330]

I don´t think playing a lot of nickel had anything to do with the decline of the run defense. The Packers lined up in that formation in the first few weeks as well and they were able to stop the run. In addition teams gained a ton of yards when Capers lined them up in the base (just take a look at the last drive vs. the Eagles as an example).

Which is why I said the lbs and safety play I'd probably the main reason. Guys either missed to many tackles or just not quick enough to get off a block and make tackles. When you look at teams who play a 3-4 defense we rank right up there as far as lack of speed in the middle.

 

[Pack-12]

I watched that game and his injury didn't even look that serious. My first initial thought was he pinched a nerve then he never came back the rest of the season. jolly IMO was our best linemen last yr so why not bring him back?

Jolly was not even close to our best lineman last year

 

[rodell330]

I don´t think playing a lot of nickel had anything to do with the decline of the run defense. The Packers lined up in that formation in the first few weeks as well and they were able to stop the run. In addition teams gained a ton of yards when Capers lined them up in the base (just take a look at the last drive vs. the Eagles as an example).

Which is why I said the lbs and safety play I'd probably the main reason. Guys either missed to many tackles or just not quick enough to get off a block and make tackles. When you look at teams who play a 3-4 defense we rank right up there as far as lack of speed in the middle.

Jolly was not even close to our best lineman last year

What team were you watching? Raji was atrocious, Pickett couldn't get off blocks and had a bum knee and Daniels was solid at rushing the passer but wasn't a full time starter. If not Jolly id love to know who was in your eyes.

 

[TJV]

I think Daniels was the Packers best DL last season. Foxsports has him playing 553 snaps in 17 games (32.5 per game average) and Jolly playing 294 snaps in 13 games (22.6 per game). IMO it doesn't matter who you call the full time starter, Daniels was on the field more even before Jolly's injury. Beyond that from the Foxsports site:

Daniels: 28 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 27 quarterback hurries, four tackles for loss, two missed tackles. ProFootballFocus.com season rating: 22.4 (ranked No. 1 on Packers defense; ranked No. 6 in the entire NFL among 3-4 defensive linemen).

Jolly: 21 tackles, one sack, three quarterback hurries, five tackles for loss, one missed tackle, one batted pass, zero forced fumbles, 10 stops (solo tackles that resulted in offensive failure). ProFootballFocus.com season rating: minus-2.8 (ranked No. 16 out of 26 on Packers defense; ranked No. 5 out of 7 among Green Bay's defensive linemen).

 

[HyponGrey]

probably a lot had to do with us not putting up any points w/o Rodgers for half the season

Run D plummeted 2 weeks before 12 went down.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Which is why I said the lbs and safety play I'd probably the main reason. Guys either missed to many tackles or just not quick enough to get off a block and make tackles. When you look at teams who play a 3-4 defense we rank right up there as far as lack of speed in the middle.

I agree that we lacked talent at the ILB and safety position last season, but those guys played the run pretty well during the first six games. There´s really no explanation why the run defense such a step decline after that.

 

[Pack-12]

What team were you watching? Raji was atrocious, Pickett couldn't get off blocks and had a bum knee and Daniels was solid at rushing the passer but wasn't a full time starter. If not Jolly id love to know who was in your eyes.

Jolly was nothing against the pass and adequate against the run while Daniels was an above average pass rusher and also adequate against the run. He was also less of a part time player than Jolly was. Id love to hear how exactly Jolly was the better player last year.

 

[rodell330]

Jolly was nothing against the pass and adequate against the run while Daniels was an above average pass rusher and also adequate against the run. He was also less of a part time player than Jolly was. Id love to hear how exactly Jolly was the better player last year.

We will agree to disagree. I like the fire and passion Jolly plays with. Everthing you said about Daniels is true tho. There ya go.

 

[rodell330]

I agree that we lacked talent at the ILB and safety position last season, but those guys played the run pretty well during the first six games. There´s really no explanation why the run defense such a step decline after that.

They forgot Rodgers played offense.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Jolly was injured in week 15, that doens´t explain the downfall of the run defense starting in week 7.

In week 7 the Packers held the Browns to 83 yards rushing on 3.6 yards per carry, that's hardly terrible.

The Packers' run defense was an illusion at the beginning of the year because we played against an inept Bengals offense, the Lions minus Calvin Johnson, an ancient Ray Rice and a terrible Browns offense. We still gave up good rushing days against the Redskins. The Packers sold out against the run against the 49ers and let the receivers run wild while the Redskins actually had a good day rushing the ball. Pickett hurt his knee in early November and Jolly actually hurt his groin in week 11 which obviously didn't help since we played some VERY good rushing offenses in weeks 9-15

 

[rodell330]

I did notice that Capers was reluctant to blitz the backers at times . I think that if Capers blitzed Hawk and whoever the other ilb is going to be along with a safety a few times a game that would help the run defense. Attack the LOS instead of waiting to be engaged.

 

[wist43]

We have a ton of high draft pick/highly paid DL that, injuries aside, will be spending a lot of time on the sideline if dunderdummy keeps playing nickel, i.e. the 2-4 front, on running downs.

On the DL, we have - Peppers, Raji, Neal, Perry, D.Jones, Daniels, Worthy, Boyd, Thorton, and Guion.

Let's say you cut Guion and Worthy. That leaves you with 8 guys to fill 2 spots.

Matthews is a constant at ROLB; and dunderdummy has Hawk and B.Jones on the field for every snap - that's 3 of the 6 spots taken right there. Throw in at LB, Mulumba, Barrington, Bradford, and Lattimore; and assume Neal will start at LOLB...

No matter how you slice it - in order to be more effective in our front six/seven, dunderdummy is going to have to play more 3-3 and 4-2 nickel; and he's going to have to play more 3-4, 4-3 base.

Of course Capers has no interest in playing anything other than a 2-4 - so how are we going to realize any better results if Capers refuses to adjust??

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We have a ton of high draft pick/highly paid DL that, injuries aside, will be spending a lot of time on the sideline if dunderdummy keeps playing nickel, i.e. the 2-4 front, on running downs.

On the DL, we have - Peppers, Raji, Neal, Perry, D.Jones, Daniels, Worthy, Boyd, Thorton, and Guion.

Let's say you cut Guion and Worthy. That leaves you with 8 guys to fill 2 spots.

Matthews is a constant at ROLB; and dunderdummy has Hawk and B.Jones on the field for every snap - that's 3 of the 6 spots taken right there. Throw in at LB, Mulumba, Barrington, Bradford, and Lattimore; and assume Neal will start at LOLB...

No matter how you slice it - in order to be more effective in our front six/seven, dunderdummy is going to have to play more 3-3 and 4-2 nickel; and he's going to have to play more 3-4, 4-3 base.

Of course Capers has no interest in playing anything other than a 2-4 - so how are we going to realize any better results if Capers refuses to adjust??

When I saw you replied to this thread I set the over/under for words until you mentioned "2-4" at 20.5. Unfortunately I picked the under.