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Calling All Talent Evaluators

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by 4zone, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. 4zone

    4zone Cheesehead

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    I am NOT a talent evaluator. I simply have no interest in watching Boise State football games so I never see anyone play except Wisconsin and whoever they play. Having said that, I know there are lots out there who do and are pretty good at seeing how guys play. And now to the point.

    I want to get groups of people to take on certain positions to evaluate and rank draft players at certain positions. Not every one, just a couple of important ones. Pick one position and throw out your Top 3-5 and specific strengths. Don't worry about combine garbage, just game day stuff. And don't bother with any website's profiles, I can get those myself. I want YOUR opinions.

    The positions
    NT
    CB
    OLB (3-4)
    ILB
    DE (3-4)

    That's it. Have at.

    At the end, we will see if we can't put some sort of fan consensus.
     
  2. Poppa San

    Poppa San Levelheaded Staff Member Moderator

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    Since this is specifically draft research I'm moving it to the draft board.
    [/moderation]
     
  3. 4zone

    4zone Cheesehead

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    Thanks!
     
  4. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I used to have a lot of time to invest in watching prospects. No longer. But as I get a chance to see guys play, I will share my amateur opinion.
     
  5. Arthur Squires

    Arthur Squires Cheesehead

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    At NT I really Like Ralph Green III who also played in Senior Bowl. I think he stands 6-5 315 and can really man handle Olinemen. Worth 4th round.
    At CB I like Desmond King, Damontae Kazee, Chidobe Awuzie, Cam Sutton and Kevin King.
    OLB Carl Lawson, TJ Watt, Jordan Willis and Vince Biegel.
    ILB Zach Cunningham, Ben Boulware, Skai Moore.
     
  6. ThePerfectBeard

    ThePerfectBeard Cheesehead

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    I'll see if I can put aside some time to do one or two groups. I'll keep you posted. Most likely going to be NT, CB, and/or ILB.
     
  7. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I watched four D'onta Foreman games tonight. These are my thoughts.

    Foreman is 6'1" 249 lbs but he does not run like that type of back. Certainly at times one sees his raw power show up as he crashes through tackles and picks up yards after contact. However, he's much more likely to try and make a player miss than he is to bash them. And what's most surprising is that he's actually pretty good at it. He's laterally agile in a way that you wouldn't expect from such a big player. He's able to see creases, he's patient enough to wait for them to develop, and can move explosively to reach them. His ability to start and stop is that of a much smaller back. His form in pass pro needs to be overhauled, but he's willing and generally gets to the right guy. He was not used as a receiver very often, but he presents a good target to the QB and seems to have soft hands. His long speed is respectable. He does go down too often on first contact and his pass protection needs to improve. I think he's a day 2 pick who could be a great contributor to the Packers. I would love to see him cut 15 lbs and play more to his strengths.
     
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  8. Arthur Squires

    Arthur Squires Cheesehead

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    You should watch some of James Conner tape. Similar type of back to Foreman but not as heavy.
     
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  9. 4zone

    4zone Cheesehead

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    Anyone had a good look at Perine Samaje?
     
  10. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    Sounds like Derrick Henry. He probably isn't as fast, but more laterally agile. Henry runs through tackles like a hot knife through butter in the NFL and I expect Foreman to do the same.
     
  11. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I don't think he has Henry's power. And he certainly wouldn't if he cut weight like I think he should. But you could certainly do worse for a comparison.
     
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  12. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I watched a couple games of Charles Harris tonight-- DE/OLB out of Missouri. He's listed at 6'3" 255 lbs and played almost exclusively RE in the two games I watched, both as a down end and standing rusher.

    In edge rushers, I generally look for one of two foundation skill sets: the ability to convert speed to power, or the ability to burst and bend the arc. Harris is certainly the latter type of player. He's a twitched up, toolsy pass rusher who knows how to get the job done in more than one way. His ability to explode off the snap and bend around the corner was on display a few times in these games ( :16 in game 1; 2:55, 6:56 in game 2). He will also work from the outside back in (4:34 in game 2) and then fake the inside move and pop back to the outside (3:40 in game 1). Basically he works off that speed to play games with the tackle. And then he will mix in an absolutely devastating spin move (2:12, 4:20 in game 1; 3:37, 9:05 in game 2). At other times, he simply wins with perseverance or using his hands better than his opposition (4:09 in game 1; 4:11, 5:04 in game 2).

    Pure power isn't really Harris' game. His bull rush can look pretty unimpressive (1:24 in game 1), though it does come into play on occasion when his speed has OT's on their heels (6:30 in game 1). He is very much a hit and miss player against the run. He doesn't set much of a hard edge, tending to get contained or washed when he remains engaged. When he makes plays against the run, it's because he uses that same explosiveness and hand work that benefits him as a pass rusher (1:40, 4:00 in game 1; :34, 7:05, 8:34 in game 2). He's pretty lousy at recognizing misdirection or zone read stuff.

    Overall, I think that Harris profiles nicely as a 34 WOLB. His skill set and sophistication as a pass rusher would likely enable him to help in sub packages right away as a rookie. In time, he should be able to stand up and take over the weak side in base sets. At #29 (if he's still there), he sure looks like a good fit for the Packers.

    Game 1: Vanderbilt

    Game 2: West Virginia
     
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  13. PackFan2

    PackFan2 Cheesehead

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    Aight y'all. Did some film sessions on James Conner. He was on my recommended popup list, I thought i'd look over his work. Found out the kid had cancer (Hodgkin's Lymphoma) last season... Practiced even when he was still doing chemo. Beating cancer in the off season and came back to have a great senior year. He's one tough SOB. His work ethic is off the charts. Hes the type of player I would want on my football team. Teams captain. A heart touching story for sure, especially for those of us who had loved ones or went through chemo/cancer.



    Now, hes a baller. I don't know why people are sleeping on him. He might be the steal of the draft. Y'ALL HEAR ME lol. Hope he proves me right! haha. I'd love to have him on the Packers.

    James Conner: 6'2, between 230-250lbs. I'd like him at 230.
    Pros:
    • Patient, decisive runner with great vision.
    • Big and physical enough to take hits at the next level.
    • Doesn't seem to have blazing speed but enough to get to second level.
    • He isn't gonna juke or go around you (does have a nice spin move), he'll run you over, fall forward and gain that extra 2-5 yards.
    • Didn't do much catching early in college (8 REC, 0 TD) but in 2016, he showed he can catch (20 REC, 4 TD).
    • Holds on to the ball (had 1 fumble on the season), compared to higher ranked guys like Mixon, Kamara, Foreman , McNichols (all 5 a piece ) this season.
    Cons:
    • Isn't gonna WOW you like Cook or Mixon speed.
    • Just does enough to get to second level then the jet stops.
    • Can he stay healthy? A couple in game injuries.
    • Need to see him block more (didn't see much in the sample of film)
    • Only had one successful year of catching out the back field.





    more vids:
    http://draftbreakdown.com/players/james-conner/


    Conclusion:
    With Starks cut and Lacy's future in question. I'd love to have someone like James Conner, who also has an incredible story, on the team. He can replace Lacy, easily. Conner is ready to be that next bell cow in the next level . While he might not run around ya, he will surely run you over and over.. and over...

    Draft:
    I feel like he will fall in rounds 4-6, unless hype comes and he falls in the third. He's my first sleeper pick of this draft.

    NFL comparison:
    A 6'2 Ricky Williams? lol.
     
  14. PackFan2

    PackFan2 Cheesehead

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    Yooo didnt see your comment lol. I did some research on the kid.
     
  15. Arthur Squires

    Arthur Squires Cheesehead

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    Very cool breakdown. He would be someone to target in round 5 if we haven't drafted McCaffrey, Hunt, Hood or Kamara.
     
  16. Arthur Squires

    Arthur Squires Cheesehead

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    Not much of a fan. He reminds me of Eddie Lacy. He might be a surprise back in the draft and have a solid career comp to Jonathan Stewart!!
     
  17. Arthur Squires

    Arthur Squires Cheesehead

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    He's a smaller LaGarrette Blount!
     
  18. 4zone

    4zone Cheesehead

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    Hunt sounds like a good option.
     
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  19. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I watched a couple Samaje Perine games last night. He seems like a pretty safe proposition, but I think people looking for a dynamic back will be disappointed. He has a lot of power and leg drive to consistently fall forward for extra yardage and break arm tackles. He isn't a burner, but he has enough speed for the 30-40 yard run at the next level. He has decent hands. He presses the run pretty well on inside zone before cutting it up. But he doesn't show plus vision and he isn't especially patient. He also isn't going to make many guys miss if met in the backfield.

    Overall, he strikes me as a thumper to work in a tandem with a back who has more big play potential. I think that would be fine for the Packers, as they don't necessarily need a feature back. However, I wouldn't take him earlier than the 3rd, and perhaps would put him in a 4th round cluster depending on how the rest of these backs look to me.
     
  20. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    The interesting thing to me about Hunt is that he was listed at 225 lbs while at Toledo, but then came in at the Sr. Bowl at 208. Now the first thing that I wonder with a big discrepancy like that is if he ever really was 225. However, it interested me enough to go back and watch him at Toledo and compare that to what I saw at the Senior Bowl. I only watched one game (BYU), but he did seem to look quicker and more explosive at the Sr. Bowl. He was getting through the hole quicker and giving the 2nd/3rd level guys less time to close in. He ramped up faster after making a cut. And on one occasion he had a DT in his face right at the LOS and just jump cut out of his shoes. It was an eyebrow raising move.

    All of that to say that the team that drafts Hunt might be getting a better player than the one on film at Toledo. Because while 225 is nice, at 5'10" 208 is still OK.
     
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