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Butler and church disagree over tweets

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by ivo610, May 1, 2013.

  1. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You can google just as well as I? Thats not a smart *** asnwer..I would google it just like you can..But I highly doubt there is an answer..Back in that time, how many publicly said they wanted to marry???? I do not think there was to many if any?

    So...

    He supported gays...He has been known to say if his players had an issue with a mans manhood that player would be gone...

    So to me he would been okay with gay marriage.

    He wouldnt go to a place to eat, or hotel, that did not allow blacks and whites to be together..

    So gay marriage I think he would have supported
     
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  2. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I have no issue with Gay people. I cannot understand the need for Gay pride marches etc. I am a white, hetrosexual male and don't feel the need to express that to people I meet. In the course of my work I am required to bodily search passengers, and in nearly twenty two years of doing so myself, and all of my workmates have been accused of "being gay" because we like touching men or women. We laugh and almost treat this as a badge of honor, it proves we are doing our job properly. I admire this sportsman for being honest about his sexuality, but its sad that he feels he needs to do it. I admire Leroy Butler for supporting a fellow sportsman for his courage, but in the big picture of things, is it REALLY that important ????
    If he had necrophiliac paedophilic tendencies, I would be concerned, but he is gay !!!! Its not contagious, its not compulsory (as far as I know !). I cant see this as that important. Just my opinion of course.
     
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  3. Darth Garfunkel

    Darth Garfunkel Cheesehead

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    Bear with a little personal story here.

    In the town I grew up in there were 3 gay kids. Well, it was assumed they were gay. Those 3 were basically ostracized from 1st grade on for being "femmes" or whatever. They got crap from basically everyone in town including the occasional teacher. My big contribution was coining a nickname that stuck with one through highschool.

    Around 95 a group of guys chased one of those kids through the park, beat him up and tossed him in a pond. The story made the rounds and everyone thought it was hilarious. That kid tried to kill himself not long after and almost succeeded. Not only did that not earn him any slack but he was now considered an attention whore as well.

    After college a few people actually got to know tjose guys and they not only weren't bitter but were apparantly really nice guys. I haven't heard of them since but hopefully they were able to drop that baggage somewhere along the line and more importantly they never felt the need to off themselves again.

    That kind of stuff and stories like the rash of suicides in Minnesota makes me think there is more to Collins coming out than hogging the spotlight. In the larger context it's about giving kids who were tossed in ponds someone to look to who is like them.
     
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  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    That's a good story, and a sad truth. I think times are changing a bit, and stories like that are FAR RARER now than stories like I see from dozens of US cities nowadays where groups of Africans get together and flashmob white victims, stores, shops, etc. I see those all the time.

    Still, that is sad about the gays. And it's a very interesting thing, this gay.

    I believe in treating them just as nice and loved as I do everyone else. My only thing is that is it's a curse, not a normal thing. They're dealt a tough hand.
    Like handicapped, mentally or physically disabled.

    I understand them giving into what to them is a natural-feeling "urge". It's hard to fight that your whole life.
    I accept the fact that most are not strong enough to do that.
    I just don't like them propaganda-ing that lifestyle so that my 1st, 2nd, 3rd graders can't avoid seeing it somewhere. Including the cover of my SPORTS Illustrated.
     
  5. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    So you want to protect those young kids from it? Why?
     
  6. Darth Garfunkel

    Darth Garfunkel Cheesehead

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    Don't worry they can't catch gay.

    But if they happen to be among the roughly 5% of kids who are born that way then I hope you will totally support them rather than make them feel they're "diseased", "defective" or otherwise less. Because they're not, nor are they cursed. The only tough hand they are dealt is how people decide to treat them.

    This kid was exposed to it more than your kids ever will be and anyone would be proud to have him as their son.

     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    How did you say it? THIS GAY???

    They arent cursed, like a disease, or disorder...They for sure aren't like the handicapped, mentally or physically disabled...They can marry

    I think you dont have anyone in your family that is gay...Your words sem to indicate you have never talked to a gay person and their feelings
     
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  8. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    That is a COLOSSAL stretch and a gross insult to black people. Equating the disgusting movement to normalize homosexuality with the civil rights movement for blacks is just plain wrong. Even if you don't believe what the Bible teaches - that homosexuality is an abomination, and even if you don't believe the obvious - that homosexual behavior is a choice, attempting to ascribe those sick points of view to the greatest coach in NFL history - the man who literally saved the Packer franchise is lower than low.
     
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  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    My point was that back in the 60's blacks couldnt be with whites in places..Vince said he would not allow that to happen...He wanted all to be treated the same. Same things gays want now..To be treated the same..The principle is the same in my eyes..

    Since Vince supported them, you must think he was wrong as well

    I believe it isnt a choice, as I have family members that are gay...I have seen it 1st hand how they grew up..

    Your way of thinking is how people in the 50's and 60's felt towards blacks...
     
  10. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    I'm sure a lot of good normal black people would strongly disagree with you - equating a race with practicers of a disgusting activity.
     
  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Never said the equating it...No where did I say that...Please stop insinuating anything other than I think Vince would support the marriage

    This is what I said,...Show me where I said it was the same as the civil right movement?

     
  12. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO this thread provides a sad commentary not only of homophobia but of its blatant display. I don't know what Vince Lombardi thought about gay marriage but there is ample evidence how he felt about race and discrimination based upon sexual orientation. So while I don't know how Lombardi would have reconciled gay marriage with his devout Catholicism, I do know he would vehemently disagree with the racist and homophobes posting here.
    I rarely cite Wikipedia but this portion of it is heavily footnoted to Maraniss's great book on Lombardi. The following appears under "Unprejudiced nature" after documenting Lombardi's zero tolerance policy towards racism, and his endorsement of an interracial relationship:
    That portion of a paragraph has 4 footnotes to When Pride Still Mattered. As far as I know, Lombardi didn't publically crusade against homophobia, or against racism. But his feelings on both subjects were clear by the way he lived his life.


    My reading of the Bible (I'm not claiming to be anything like an expert on the subject) reveals that homosexuality is clearly called a sin in the Old Testament. And while Jesus certainly preaches 'love your neighbor as yourself' as second in importance only to loving God, he not only doesn't refute the Old Testament, he endorses it. So I would be interested in ivo610's interpretation of this view as being hypocritical. BTW the Old Testament punishment for adultery is death but as I've posted before, seldom do I see the kind of vigor some Christians devote to condemning homosexuality devoted to other mortal sins.

    As to whether or not homosexuality is a "choice", consider this: Why would anyone choose to be reviled and in some parts of the world even today, killed for this "choice"?
     
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  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    He supported blacks and gays---It is documented on this thread...So I have a "feeling" he would support gay marriage..No real proof...

    If he was supporting gays in the 50's and 60's, one would think that the catholic church would have been upset at him then..That is why I am saying he would support gay marriage.

    But I am just guessing
     
  14. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    If he was tolerant, and MOST people are, I`m sure Lombardi would have had no issue with gay players. As I stated earlier, as long as they don't make it compulsory I`m fine with it. I just don't see the need for gay pride marches etc, or overly open displays of affection in public. I have an issue with it hetrosexuals couples doing it too to be honest.
     
  15. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    You're entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is you are desecrating the memory of a GREAT Man.

    Hell yeah, he supported the rights of blacks - he should have; there certainly isn't and shouldn't be any stigma attached to being black. Being homosexual is a whole other thing. I started this by saying you were making a COLOSSAL stretch to assume what you express as your opinion, and I stand by that, in addition to stating that you INSULT both the memory of Vince Lombardi and black people.
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I know the gay community never went through what the black community went through....The gay community will never have it as bad as the black community had it...

    But being ridiculed, discriminated against and told they cant do this or that is SIMILAR to what the black community went through.

    Since Vince supported gays (even with his catholic background) makes me come to the conclusion he would support marriages..Not saying he would or did..Just evidence points to it...

    You bring no evidence to say he wouldnt support it. Just that its an insult
     
  17. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    A) We're taught to love the sinner, not the sin. We are taught to still love the gay person. But we don't condone the act.
    This includes other sins, not just gay.

    B) I agree with Jack. Nobody would "choose" that.
    In fact, as much as I would love a million or ten million dollars, there is no amount of money that could convert me.

    Now girls/women in college, that's a whole other story somehow...... I can't explain that.
     
  18. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    That's one angle Ol' Vince didn't have to worry about, lesbianism. Somehow, that particular behavior doesn't seem quite so sick and disgusting as male homosexuality. Similarly, the Bible doesn't specifically condemn it like it does male on male. As for either being a "compulsion" - something somebody just can't stop themselves from doing, nope, I don't buy that. Pedophiles, rapists, and various other perverts use that same excuse - they had no choice. Whatever weird urges somebody might feel, it can be controlled on some level. As for this original story, I tend to disbelieve the whole thing. The crowd trying to legitimize homosexuality puts out grossly inflated numbers and percentages of the population for that variety of pervert, so it's entirely believable that somebody would manufacture the whole sick story - with many of the principal characters not around to deny the filth - and think about it, with the political correctness crap being spewed these days, what if some old-time Packer said "no way anything that sick went on" with the Packers of those days, the damn media a**holes would vilify him as a homophobe. That word alone is a sign of the p.c. crap. People who think homosexuality is revolting and disgusting don't have a "phobia" - fear. They just have a Christian moral outlook on a behavior the Bible labels an abomination and which disgusts far more people than have the guts to admit it.
     
  19. Darth Garfunkel

    Darth Garfunkel Cheesehead

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    I seriously am not sure if that was written in earnest or as satire. I feel like I'm falling victim to a troll attack.
     
  20. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Do you - or DID you feel a compulsion to engage in heterosexual behavior, or were you talked into it? Do you think you could be talked out of it?

    And yes, as a heterosexual male I am repulsed by male homosexual behavior and it doesn't take guts to admit that. (BTW I am also repulsed by your posting on this subject and by your posts condemning of an entire religion. So what?) As for the percentage of homosexuals in society throughout human history I believe its a fairly small number, but what difference does that make?
    Of course you "tend to disbelieve" it. But then facts and evidence don't appear to be your strong suit, so we shouldn't be surprised by your 'head buried in the sand' response. There's a lot of evidence that Lombardi's brother Harry was gay and that Vince knew and accepted him. And there's a lot of evidence that Lombardi accepted gay players. Check it out and come back with some evidence to refute it. Or predictably, don't.

    And BTW, no one is alleging players were engaging in gay sex in the Green Bay or Washington locker rooms. :rolleyes:
     
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  21. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I'm there with you, Jack.

    Frankly, I'm always astounded by people who can live their lives in the Book of Leviticus. That coming from a 50+ year old guy that was raised in the house of Depression era Catholics whose father was a Catholic deacon, and who personally did some time studying in a Seminary ... well, that's saying something. I don't claim to understand a lot of things that are acceptable in society...but, I'm not going to judge people neither.
     
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  22. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    That's me screwed then. I had nine beers and three hotdogs at a recent barbeque :eek: I told my wife I only had six beers and two hotdogs......I`m doubly screwed :(
     
  23. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Don't worry, Darth, that's how I feel about that whole line of CRAP about homosexuality on the Packers of old - satire? maybe but doubtful. More likely it was written for a sick agenda of trying to mainstream homosexuality, using our own heroes of the past for that disgusting purpose.
     
  24. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    You couldn't have gotten all that drunk on 9 beers, and you're good to go on the rest of it.
     
  25. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    As Bill pointed out above, it's in the New Testament too - homosexuality condemned in the book of 1 Corinthians. Who said anything about judging PEOPLE? It's just the perversion that practice that the Bible itself judges. For myself, I merely said it disgusts me - male homosexuality. Who among you can honestly said it doesn't disgust you - assuming you don't swing that way yourself?
    A lot of evidence? Or one SICK writer with an agenda alleging it?

    To answer your question, yeah, but others - priests, for example - the non-perverted ones - resist that feeling. Actually, it probably is a little bit less than a compulsion, but strong urge or whatever.

    What difference does the inflated population numbers make? It is lies put out by the people with an agenda to make the perversion SEEM OK or normal. Glad to hear you also are disgusted by it - you know, the political correctness crowd will probably come around and kick your butt for saying that hahaha.

    As for my condemning a FALSE and BARBAROUS excuse for a religion, hell yeah - although I didn't say every last member of that religion is bad, just that the HUGE majority of its members praise and sympathize with the relatively small percentage of terrorists. You would actually disagree with that?
     

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