Brandt's parting words on the Green Bay Packers

bigfog

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Picked this up from Railbird

As most of you know, the Packers' chief contract negotiator, Andrew Brandt, has left the team. Just two days ago after leaving, Brandt did an interview on a sports talk radio station in Green Bay called WDUZ. Hosts Chris Havel and Harry Sydney talked to Brandt on issues such as the future for Brandt and the Green Bay Packers. I happened to be listening to the show in my car, but arrived at my destination before the Brandt interview.

Luckily enough, someone out there in cyberspace was able to hear it. The following is is a comment on the Talkin Packers message board left by user "Frottis." It's not the most graceful writing, but it is very, very interesting:

Since MM has been in GB he has continuously stated that the most important factors that he stresses with his players when talking about developing a Championship caliber team are "Availability and Accountability".

For the most part we have assumed what he meant by this and sometimes he will state specifically what he means. But most times he generalizes with the press about these subjects.

Last night I listened to an interview with Andrew Brandt on the local sports radio station here in GB. Brandt described specifically what MM is talking about and how TT, MM and Brandt specifically have gone about trying to make those things happen. I thought I would share.

Brandt stressed that it really comes down to how they, over the past 2-3 years, have transitioned how they structure contracts. "Pay as you go" is a term being thrown around lately. And this is what they mean by that.

They are no longer building "signing bonuses" into contracts. They felt this sent the wrong message to the athletes. A signing bonus only pays them, literally, for signing the document. After that point there is no incentive to continue to earn that normally huge amount of money they were just given. In essense, if created complacency.

So instead what they have done is worked exclusively with workout and roster bonuses. This is where availability and accountability come into major play.

Accountability: With the workout bonuses they are trying to create incentive for all of the players to be here from March-June. This is the time that MM says they "get the most work done", and makes training camp a much more fruitful experience for everybody involved.

As evidenced by this past year they were also able to keep their players fresh through training camp-even giving Wednesdays off, which led to a fast start.(for the past 3-4 years before MM was here there was a constant struggle at the beginning of the year, but they always finished strong to stay in playoff contention. It seemed to really put some undo pressure on everyone though because they were always trying to catch back up.) This was a big goal for MM when he came in..and especially last year when he already was 1 year into his program.

We also saw a very nice increase in offseason player activity in GB because of these incentives, which most of us feel did lead to a very closely-knit team this year and directly correlated with the success they had.

Availability: We can all see how important gameday availability is. If you don't have the players you need it's tough to accomplish what you need to in order to consistently win.

To stress this idea what they have emphasized is bonuses for being on the gameday 45 person active roster. This puts the ball in the players hands for them to do everything they can to make sure that they are on the actives that week. If that means seeking extra treatment, extra film study, extra drills, whatever the player can do to entice the coaches to put them on the 45 for that week.

What this also allows them to do is structure low-middle market value base salaries while giving the player all the opportunities to raise their own value throughout the year. It really puts their value back into the players' hands. If they want to make big $$, be responsible for your actions and you will earn that big $$. But you must earn it while helping this TEAM reach its goals.

In the long run what this is doing is two things.

1-It is keeping the organization fiscally sound. They are not gonna run into the cap hell that many have when they suddenly need to pay $10 million on a signing bonus they gave 3 - 4 years ago, which normally leads to that person being released..and as we saw with Wahle, regrettably released.

2-It helps the GM and coaches to more quickly identify players that they think are going to fit into the culture they are trying to create. When 1st, 2nd, or 3rd year players are not participating in the off season programs and taking advantage of incentives it may provide insight into that persons longterm future in this program. There are obviously exceptions to this: Woodson and Harris are the immediate examples. But what we can say is that these two have proven that they aren't sitting around getting fat and lazy all summer. Harris hasn't missed a game in years and Woodson is simply a gamer. They both are in impeccable shape and have developed regimens that allow them to pick it right up in camp.

Overall, the interview with Brandt was great and offered much insight into ideas we hear, but don't necessarily have clear understandings of.

Personally, I think Brandt will be a loss to this organization on many different levels. But, I also think that as long as they continue with this mindset and structure we will see much success for this great organization!

Railbird Comment: Perhaps one thing we're seeing is the need to be in tip-top physical condition. One of the reasons the Packers saw success this year was the fact that they remained relatively healthy. Of course they had injuries like everyone else, but nothing major compared to other teams.

Perhaps the best case study of this availabilty and accountability theory will be the future of Johnny Jolly. As you might remember, Jolly was forced to sit out the first couple days of training camp this past season while deemed not in shape enough to practice. He wasn't able to pass a conditioning test. Jolly also ended up the season on injured reserve.

Jolly's performance this offseason and how he comes into training camp in '08 will be something to watch in the future.
The interview with Brandt can be found here along with other archived shows on WDUZ.

Being in Fargo, I didn't really get a chance to hear this interview first hand, but if this is an accurate transcript, I like the sounds of it. It gets rid of the loafer players who collect a bonus and do nothing and creates a great culture - accountability.

Very nice to hear.
 

tromadz

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I didn't know we got rid of 'signing bonuses.' That's neat. Incentives is where it's at. Do good, you get paid, baby!
 

bozz_2006

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anybody know how these incentives affect the cap? i would think that they would still have to be selective about how the incentives are handled, to maintain a healthy salary cap. It seems unorthodox (probably why nobody else does it) and risky (high risk = high reward) to set up your teams overall salary without a working understanding of how it will shape up as the season and the ensuing seasons play themselves out, vis a vi, how many players meet the incentives, and if "too many" of them reach the incentives, if salary cap hell will follow

granted, i have no real understanding of how it works and am not criticizing the shift in the way our team does business. on the contrary, it seems to be working brilliantly. But what a gamble to get the ball rolling on this in the first place!
 

Pack93z

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I think the biggest gamble to this thought process is that free agents might not be as willing to skip the signing bonus inleu of workout and roster bonuses.. maybe that plays a little into some of the FA turning a cold shoulder to Green Bay the past couple of year, don't know.

Or maybe these FA just don't likey the snow, lol. Heard more on the way.
 

cheesey

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I think the biggest gamble to this thought process is that free agents might not be as willing to skip the signing bonus inleu of workout and roster bonuses.. maybe that plays a little into some of the FA turning a cold shoulder to Green Bay the past couple of year, don't know.

Or maybe these FA just don't likey the snow, lol. Heard more on the way.
Well...if they don't want to "earn" their money, let them go elsewhere. Thats how i feel at least. Maybe thats why "Part Time" Moss didn't want to come here. Maybe he heard he would have to EARN his money, and play full time.
 

bozz_2006

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bozz_2006 said:
Pack93z said:
Heard more on the way.

what does this mean? What did you hear?


Da Snow Bozz.. Da Snow. :lol:

indeed. we only got a few inches last night. the cold is coming tomorrow. high of -1. i wish it would warm up already. i really don't mind the cold, but i'm sick of my wife complaining about it!
 

Toronto_Cheesehead

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bozz_2006 said:
anybody know how these incentives affect the cap? i would think that they would still have to be selective about how the incentives are handled, to maintain a healthy salary cap. It seems unorthodox (probably why nobody else does it) and risky (high risk = high reward) to set up your teams overall salary without a working understanding of how it will shape up as the season and the ensuing seasons play themselves out, vis a vi, how many players meet the incentives, and if "too many" of them reach the incentives, if salary cap hell will follow

granted, i have no real understanding of how it works and am not criticizing the shift in the way our team does business. on the contrary, it seems to be working brilliantly. But what a gamble to get the ball rolling on this in the first place!

To my understanding, there are two types of incentives. Likely to be earned (LTBE) and not likely to be earned (NLTBE).

So say Driver has an incentive in his contract saying he gets an extra 500k if he gets 1000 yards receiving. That would count as a LTBE incentive since he surpassed that total last season, and it would be applied to next years cap number. However, he may not get 1000 yards receiving next year, even though the cap is charging the Packers for the bonus. In that case, the league would allow you to go 500k over the cap the next season to make up for being overcharged this year.

NLTBE incentives are something that a player did not accomplish in the previous season. For instance, Jennings may have had a bonus in his contract giving him money for recording 10 touchdowns. So that bonus would be applied to next years cap, but in future years it would be treated as a LTBE, assuming he maintains his current levels of production.

LTBE incentives are actually a neat loophole that can exposed by teams (i.e. Philadelphia's used it in the past). With young players you can put in a bunch of special team bonuses. If it's a 5 year deal and in the 3rd year that player develops into a starter then he probably won't reach his special team quotas anymore, and the LTBE incentive won't be met that year and a cap credit would occur the following season.

I'm sure it gets more invovled than that, but I think it's a pretty accurate overview for most fans who just want the basic knowledge on how incentives work.
 
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Good assessment Toronto_Cheesehead, I was also thinking it had something to do with LTBE.

Great post bigfog, and props to "Frottis" for typing that out.

I also read somewhere a while back that the Packers give the players their weekly checks on a specific day with the intention being that it will motivate the players to work/play harder.

It's a good system though, reward players that work hard and give them incentive (short term $$$, leading to long term improvement) to spend time working out.
 

Greg C.

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Thanks for the great info, bigfog. It all makes sense. The downside to reading this is that it means the info is out there for the rest of the league to read about as well.
 
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bigfog

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I can see how this policy could deter some free agents, but my belief is that it only scares away the player who's looking for the big payday and then loaf around. I love the idea of putting an emphasis on incentives and goals rather than the Packers just handing over a big sack of money.
 

tromadz

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I can see how this policy could deter some free agents, but my belief is that it only scares away the player who's looking for the big payday and then loaf around. I love the idea of putting an emphasis on incentives and goals rather than the Packers just handing over a big sack of money.

Pretty much. This system would deter older veterans looking for one last big cash-in, but will draw in younger and confident players who want to win.
 

DoddPower

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The only negative I really see for the players is not as much guaranteed money in case of injury early on in the contract. I can see this being very attractive for FA's and stuff for security reasons.

However, I definitely see how it keeps a team hungry though. Nice!
 

bozz_2006

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no system is perfect. pros and cons. seems like what it does is attracts and keeps around the guys who have that certain mentality that MM and TT like.
 

DoddPower

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bozz_2006 said:
no system is perfect. pros and cons. seems like what it does is attracts and keeps around the guys who have that certain mentality that MM and TT like.

Yeah, it definitely seems to appeal to the young guys more. But I mean, think about it. If you're a big time FA, and you have 7 teams interested in you, with 5-6 of them in big cities offering you a big contract with a huge signing bonus, and then Green Bay offering you money that you have to earn. Even if you've got the best work ethic ever and will not slack off at all, wouldn't it make a little more business sense for yourself to take the contract that was loaded up front? Kind of like, go ahead and get the money out of the way, then I can just focus on football.

I'm not saying it's a bad system by any means, but I can definitely understand why it wouldn't be appealing to FA's from a business perspective.
 

bozz_2006

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But I mean, think about it. If you're a big time FA, and you have 7 teams interested in you, with 5-6 of them in big cities offering you a big contract with a huge signing bonus, and then Green Bay offering you money that you have to earn.

Green Bay offered Wood a front loaded contract. i think our system offers the flexibility to do that, because of the fiscal responsibility towards the salary cap. i don't see GB's approach as either/or, but rather both/and. Young players are driven to succeed and old dudes (like Wood) are given the luxury of front loaded contract... which is better than the backloaded contracts that have been the norm as of late. look at all the big names who have become cap casualties in the last week; it's like a slaughterhouse.
 

DoddPower

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bozz_2006 said:
But I mean, think about it. If you're a big time FA, and you have 7 teams interested in you, with 5-6 of them in big cities offering you a big contract with a huge signing bonus, and then Green Bay offering you money that you have to earn.

Green Bay offered Wood a front loaded contract. i think our system offers the flexibility to do that, because of the fiscal responsibility towards the salary cap. i don't see GB's approach as either/or, but rather both/and. Young players are driven to succeed and old dudes (like Wood) are given the luxury of front loaded contract... which is better than the backloaded contracts that have been the norm as of late. look at all the big names who have become cap casualties in the last week; it's like a slaughterhouse.

Yeah, I guess I see what you're saying. So, the incentive laden contracts are mainly for younger guys, and the more proven folk get front loaded contracts?
 

bozz_2006

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bozz_2006 said:
DoddPower said:
But I mean, think about it. If you're a big time FA, and you have 7 teams interested in you, with 5-6 of them in big cities offering you a big contract with a huge signing bonus, and then Green Bay offering you money that you have to earn.

Green Bay offered Wood a front loaded contract. i think our system offers the flexibility to do that, because of the fiscal responsibility towards the salary cap. i don't see GB's approach as either/or, but rather both/and. Young players are driven to succeed and old dudes (like Wood) are given the luxury of front loaded contract... which is better than the backloaded contracts that have been the norm as of late. look at all the big names who have become cap casualties in the last week; it's like a slaughterhouse.

I don't know. Seems that way? We don't have a whole lot of precedent to make that assumption, but from the small sample we do have, that's what i would infer.
Yeah, I guess I see what you're saying. So, the incentive laden contracts are mainly for younger guys, and the more proven folk get front loaded contracts?
 

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