Bowser is the type of player that the packers need in this year's NFL Draft

Which player do you feel the Packers should select with their first pick?

  • Tyus Bowser

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • TJ Watt

    Votes: 10 50.0%
  • Joe Mixon

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • Forrest Lamp

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 25.0%

  • Total voters
    20

brandon2348

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So your solution to this perceived problem is to take the position that you think is most needful no matter the value on the board elsewhere?

I belive the roster should be stocked from free agency and the immediate needs should of already been addressed so that the Packers can truly take the "best player available" and attack the board with more efficiency.

However with the needs on defense so glarring specifically at corner and OLB and pass rush it is very difficult to ignore these needs when trying to build a Super Bowl roster. This is where Thompson continues to fail us and the Packers.
 

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I belive the roster should be stocked from free agency and the immediate needs should of already been addressed so that the Packers can truly take the "best player available" and attack the board with more efficiency.

However with the needs on defense so glarring specifically at corner and OLB and pass rush it is very difficult to ignore these needs when trying to build a Super Bowl roster. This is where Thompson continues to fail us and the Packers.

Teams that pass on great value just to say they addressed the greatest perceived need almost always regret it.
 

brandon2348

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Teams that pass on great value just to say they addressed the greatest perceived need almost always regret it.

Like when TT drafted Richard Rodgers in the 3rd round?

Talk about "reaching for a need". Thompson reaches all over the board in the name of "best player available". We're gonna see a lot of "reaching" here in a couple weeks.

We might even see him reach for Bowser. Lol
 
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Like when TT drafted Richard Rodgers in the 3rd round?

Talk about "reaching for a need". Thompson reaches all over the board in the name of "best player available". We're gonna see a lot of "reaching" here in a couple weeks.

We might even see him reach for Bowser. Lol

Ok, so reaching good as long as it's the guy you like. If not, then stupid. Which is why TT's draft record is so terrible. Got it.
 

brandon2348

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Ok, so reaching good as long as it's the guy you like. If not, then stupid. Which is why TT's draft record is so terrible. Got it.

I never said "reaching is good". I was stating that it is something that must be done from time to time but is done quite often in regards to TT because drafting is the only consistent method he uses to build a Super Bowl roster while also adressing needs.

I really don't understand how your so confused here.
 

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I just watched Bowser's and TJ Watt's highlight film to try comparing their styles. Both guys put up some good stats.

One thing jumped out immediately while watching TJ Watt's... he was always fighting past a blocker or 2 and blowing through traffic to make his plays. The guy is big (6'-6", 252 and still growing apparently, as he was 6'-4" last year), fast and has a relentless motor.

Bowser made plays but many were unblocked or stunt plays where he had a clean path to the QB/RB.

If both are still on the board at #29 I hope TT gives Watt serious consideration... I think he'll make an immediate impact and may eventually become a stud pass rushing DE if he keeps growing. OLB, CB, OLB, RB/OG are my preferred dream-draft order.
 
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I would prefer Thompson to select Watt out of the list you provided. I'm advocating for Thompson to trade up for Marshon Lattimore though but obviously don't expect it to happen.

Lamp is a stud. He's very athletic, technically proficient, he has great technique, and excellent balance. This OL class is terrible but that doesn't mean every OL in this class is terrible. Guard isn't as valuable a position as Edge or CB, but if those are my choices then he's the best pure prospect by a wide margin and would be my choice.

It's a little silly to think that every analyst studying drafts out there is saying "Well this guy stinks, but there's no one else so we'll stick him in the top 20."

The Packers rightfully don't value the guard position enough to use their first round pick on Lamp. I would prefer Thompson to select a tackle capabke of moving inside on day 3 of the draft to find a starter on the right side.
 

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I would prefer Thompson to select Watt out of the list you provided. I'm advocating for Thompson to trade up for Marshon Lattimore though but obviously don't expect it to happen.



The Packers rightfully don't value the guard position enough to use their first round pick on Lamp. I would prefer Thompson to select a tackle capabke of moving inside on day 3 of the draft to find a starter on the right side.

I guess if Lamp falls, we will find out if that's true.

I likewise favor them finding guard help later, but if the value is too good I think they should take it.
 

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I just watched Bowser's and TJ Watt's highlight film to try comparing their styles. Both guys put up some good stats.

One thing jumped out immediately while watching TJ Watt's... he was always fighting past a blocker or 2 and blowing through traffic to make his plays. The guy is big (6'-6", 252 and still growing apparently, as he was 6'-4" last year), fast and has a relentless motor.

Bowser made plays but many were unblocked or stunt plays where he had a clean path to the QB/RB.

If both are still on the board at #29 I hope TT gives Watt serious consideration... I think he'll make an immediate impact and may eventually become a stud pass rushing DE if he keeps growing. OLB, CB, OLB, RB/OG are my preferred dream-draft order.

One thing that jumps out to me about both of them is how fast they close to finish the play. It's explosive. '

By the way, Watt was 6'4" at the combine last month. The 6'6" figure may have been a typo somewhere. But he is definitely still filling out his frame.
 

Pkrjones

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One thing that jumps out to me about both of them is how fast they close to finish the play. It's explosive. '

By the way, Watt was 6'4" at the combine last month. The 6'6" figure may have been a typo somewhere. But he is definitely still filling out his frame.
DOH!!! Sorry for the MIS-information! Don't know where I saw 6'-6" but you are correct that Combine official height is 6'-4"... Sorry everyone.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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DOH!!! Sorry for the MIS-information! Don't know where I saw 6'-6" but you are correct that Combine official height is 6'-4"... Sorry everyone.

No need to apologize. I've seen TJ listed at 6' 5" and if the Packers draft him, some might say he is 6' 8".

Seems like anytime I start looking at a player's physical traits and 40 times, they are never the same from site to site. NFL.com has Eddie Lacy at #234 LOL. Guessing somewhere you can still find Eddie at #210. ;)

Even the Seahawks themselves have Eddie listed at #234.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/roster
 
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No need to apologize. I've seen TJ listed at 6' 5" and if the Packers draft him, some might say he is 6' 8".

Seems like anytime I start looking at a player's physical traits and 40 times, they are never the same from site to site. NFL.com has Eddie Lacy at #234 LOL. Guessing somewhere you can still find Eddie at #210. ;)

Even the Seahawks themselves have Eddie listed at #234.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/roster

I think it's because the people who actually weigh these guys in are not the ones posting the weights to websites. Vince Wilfork was listed at 325 forever. Meanwhile if you look close enough, you can actually see small moons orbiting his midsection.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I think it's because the people who actually weigh these guys in are not the ones posting the weights to websites. Vince Wilfork was listed at 325 forever. Meanwhile if you look close enough, you can actually see small moons orbiting his midsection.
Agreed. Or when you read "speed comparisons" between players. The really odd ones to me are when someone is bringing up the speed of a 10 year vet. I understand Adrian Peterson had a 40 time of 4.4, but that was 10 years, many miles and 2 major surgeries ago. I get wanting to use some of the stats for comparisons, but make sure they are current, are apples to apples and you consider football speed, in pads,2017. Which is one of the reasons I figure you like the 3 cone. Imagine if they started holding a combine for Free Agents, I think that would be a hoot!
 

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Agreed. Or when you read "speed comparisons" between players. The really odd ones to me are when someone is bringing up the speed of a 10 year vet. I understand Adrian Peterson had a 40 time of 4.4, but that was 10 years, many miles and 2 major surgeries ago. I get wanting to use some of the stats for comparisons, but make sure they are current, are apples to apples and you consider football speed, in pads,2017. Which is one of the reasons I figure you like the 3 cone. Imagine if they started holding a combine for Free Agents, I think that would be a hoot!

They actually do! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...eboots-veterans-combine-as-pro-player-combine

I really like the three cone at certain positions for one reason: it's shown itself to be predictive. I really pay attention to it at EDGE. I get why some people think it's silly to put stock in guys in shorts running around cones. At one time I did as well. But when you look at the high end times over the last 10 years or so and what those players went on to do, it's tough to ignore the correlation.

I think that where people go wrong most of the time with combine numbers is knowing what numbers have shown themselves as important and at what positions. Three cone and broad jump are pretty important for edge rushers. Forty time not so much. Forties (at least minimums) matter for corners, but I could care less about their bench. I'll take a back who kills the jumps and agility drills over one that runs really fast. Things like that.

But the most important thing, I think, is to find where the tape overlaps with the numbers. A guy like Bowser is an elite athlete. And while he isn't the most refined player on tape, he shows you some things that are impressive. He was regarded as a 2nd round talent before the combine ever happened. Put those things together and that's a guy I covet. There are guys every so often who kill the drills (e.g. James Cowser or Tyler Starr) but aren't good enough on tape to get drafted. It's not like they go on to be good just because of that one test.
 

brandon2348

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They actually do! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...eboots-veterans-combine-as-pro-player-combine

I really like the three cone at certain positions for one reason: it's shown itself to be predictive. I really pay attention to it at EDGE. I get why some people think it's silly to put stock in guys in shorts running around cones. At one time I did as well. But when you look at the high end times over the last 10 years or so and what those players went on to do, it's tough to ignore the correlation.

I think that where people go wrong most of the time with combine numbers is knowing what numbers have shown themselves as important and at what positions. Three cone and broad jump are pretty important for edge rushers. Forty time not so much. Forties (at least minimums) matter for corners, but I could care less about their bench. I'll take a back who kills the jumps and agility drills over one that runs really fast. Things like that.

But the most important thing, I think, is to find where the tape overlaps with the numbers. A guy like Bowser is an elite athlete. And while he isn't the most refined player on tape, he shows you some things that are impressive. He was regarded as a 2nd round talent before the combine ever happened. Put those things together and that's a guy I covet. There are guys every so often who kill the drills (e.g. James Cowser or Tyler Starr) but aren't good enough on tape to get drafted. It's not like they go on to be good just because of that one test.

Bruce Irvin is an elite athlete too. Do you want Irvin cause thats about what I think you get with Bowser.

I like Justin Houston way better and that's more along the lines of what you get with Charles Harris.

Once again there is no comparing these guys.
 

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But the most important thing, I think, is to find where the tape overlaps with the numbers.
For those on the outside looking in, yes, those are very important. But I am sure within every team's scouting report are just as important things such as:
  1. Coachability
  2. Character
  3. Off field issues
  4. Level of competition faced
  5. Best fit in what type of scheme
  6. Injury history and recovery from
Probably a few more as well, that we, the fan, either don't have the full story or nearly enough information to rely solely on combine numbers, college stats and film to have much more than a hunch as to what player will be that "perfect fit" in Green Bay at any given pick, at least in our minds
 

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Bruce Irvin is an elite athlete too. Do you want Irvin cause thats about what I think you get with Bowser.

I like Justin Houston way better and that's more along the lines of what you get with Charles Harris.

Once again there is no comparing these guys.

I think Bowser could play very well in a role similar to Bruce Irvin's, or one like Connor Barwin's when he was with the Eagles.

Justin Houston tested like an elite athlete, so I don't know what you're talking about. At 6'3" 270 lbs with super long arms, he did this:

-4.62 forty (71st%)
-36.5" vertical (73rd%)
-125" broad (89th%)
-6.95 three cone (88th%)

For maybe the 12th time in two days, I really like Harris and certainly don't think players can't succeed unless they test super well. I like him, and wouldn't balk at #29. But I see traits in other pass rushers that I covet more, so I have them as my first choices.

But if you're saying there's no comparing Houston and Bowser as athletes, I agree. They're both fantastic, but very different. The most similar athletic comparison to Houston in this class is Solomon Thomas.
 

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For those on the outside looking in, yes, those are very important. But I am sure within every team's scouting report are just as important things such as:
  1. Coachability
  2. Character
  3. Off field issues
  4. Level of competition faced
  5. Best fit in what type of scheme
  6. Injury history and recovery from
Probably a few more as well, that we, the fan, either don't have the full story or nearly enough information to rely solely on combine numbers, college stats and film to have much more than a hunch as to what player will be that "perfect fit" in Green Bay at any given pick, at least in our minds

Certainly teams have much more information to consider than we do.
 

brandon2348

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I think Bowser could play very well in a role similar to Bruce Irvin's, or one like Connor Barwin's when he was with the Eagles.

Justin Houston tested like an elite athlete, so I don't know what you're talking about. At 6'3" 270 lbs with super long arms, he did this:

-4.62 forty (71st%)
-36.5" vertical (73rd%)
-125" broad (89th%)
-6.95 three cone (88th%)

For maybe the 12th time in two days, I really like Harris and certainly don't think players can't succeed unless they test super well. I like him, and wouldn't balk at #29. But I see traits in other pass rushers that I covet more, so I have them as my first choices.

But if you're saying there's no comparing Houston and Bowser as athletes, I agree. They're both fantastic, but very different. The most similar athletic comparison to Houston in this class is Solomon Thomas.

Charles Harris pro day numbers
4.82 forty
37.5 inch vertical jump
7.05 cone drill
119 broad jump

Tired of you calling this guy a so so athlete. Those are elite numbers for a guy 6'3 255
 

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Charles Harris pro day numbers
4.82 forty
37.5 inch vertical jump
7.05 cone drill
119 broad jump

Tired of you calling this guy a so so athlete. Those are elite numbers for a guy 6'3 255

Those numbers rank in the:

54th%
90th%
69th%
29th% (you had the 3C time wrong-- it is listed on nfldraftscout as 7.35)

His height and weight are 30th% and 17th% for the DE position.

Like I said yesterday, he improved dramatically in the jumps and those are good numbers but overall he is just middle in the road as far as his testing goes. If that's your standard for elite, then you're talking about ~30-40% of DE's who roll through the combine being elite. Seems like a low bar.
 

brandon2348

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Those numbers rank in the:

54th%
90th%
69th%
29th% (you had the 3C time wrong-- it is listed on nfldraftscout as 7.35)

His height and weight are 30th% and 17th% for the DE position.

Like I said yesterday, he improved dramatically in the jumps and those are good numbers but overall he is just middle in the road as far as his testing goes. If that's your standard for elite, then you're talking about ~30-40% of DE's who roll through the combine being elite. Seems like a low bar.

He is listed at 7.05 here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kansas.../university-of-missouri/article140463353.html

At 255lbs I feel very good about his numbers. His jumps and 3 cone are where they need to be and the tape matches. He consistently whipped up on SEC competition.
 

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He is listed at 7.05 here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kansas.../university-of-missouri/article140463353.html

At 255lbs I feel very good about his numbers. His jumps and 3 cone are where they need to be and the tape matches. He consistently whipped up on SEC competition.

You see a lot of variance on pro day numbers. That's why I use nfldraftscout because it's run by CBS. I'm not accusing your link of anything, but agents often put out numbers that are less than accurate.

But that's a really big difference.

Regardless, I think you're fine to feel good about those numbers. Like I say, he's very good on tape as a rusher. Refined and can win in more than one way. But he's not an elite athlete. He did show at his pro day that he's not Jarvis Jones.

This is all very strange. I feel like I keep telling you I like him and would be fine with drafting him and you're mad about it.
 

brandon2348

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You see a lot of variance on pro day numbers. That's why I use nfldraftscout because it's run by CBS. I'm not accusing your link of anything, but agents often put out numbers that are less than accurate.

But that's a really big difference.

Regardless, I think you're fine to feel good about those numbers. Like I say, he's very good on tape as a rusher. Refined and can win in more than one way. But he's not an elite athlete. He did show at his pro day that he's not Jarvis Jones.

This is all very strange. I feel like I keep telling you I like him and would be fine with drafting him and you're mad about it.

Yeah it is strange that you keep gushing about Tyus Bowser when there going to be drafted in within similar proximity and Harris is the obvious choice.
 

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Yeah it is strange that you keep gushing about Tyus Bowser when there going to be drafted in within similar proximity and Harris is the obvious choice.

There's the issue. You can't seem to handle that I like Bowser. Hope you're able to come to terms.
 

brandon2348

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There's the issue. You can't seem to handle that I like Bowser. Hope you're able to come to terms.

Here is the reality.

We're lucky Harris didn't feel well and had a bad combine that day so now he will even drop to Packers at 29. I mean the list is Markus Golden, Shane Ray, Kony Ealy and Harris is being touted as the best of the bunch.

If Harris is there at 29 then you run and I mean run up to the podium and snag him. Tyus Bowser shouldn't even be in the discussion at that time.

The only player that could or should be in the discussion if Harris is available is Joe Mixon.
 

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