Bonds' Record Vs. Brett's Record.

[Raider Pride]

This is part of a post from the atrium:

"So Bonds is a despicable human being for taking HGH, I think that is a little overboard... for comparisons sake.

What about Brett's addiction to pain killers. They no doubt maybe have keep him on the field and contributed to the record for most consecutive games played?"

I personally can not compare how pain killers void Brett's most consecutive starts record, the same way that steroids void Bonds Home Run Record.

I have never heard this argument before, and because many posters do not visit the Atrium I wanted to get your opinion on this.

R.P.

 

[PackerLegend]

Brett admitted it and got the problem fixed. Bonds is using steriods and wont admit and he keeps using them.

 

[tromadz]

Boy is this a good topic....oh man...

-Bonds took steroids and it obviously helped him do what he's doing (yes, even though steroids doesnt help with hand\eye coordination)

-Favre took pills, painkillers,etc and did it help him stay on the field? Yeah, probably...

boy oh boy....

 

[Raider Pride]

Boy is this a good topic....oh man...

-Bonds took steroids and it obviously helped him do what he's doing (yes, even though steroids doesnt help with hand\eye coordination)

-Favre took pills, painkillers,etc and did it help him stay on the field? Yeah, probably...

boy oh boy....

I know... It is a hell of a discussion, food for thought, and topic.

Pack93z came up with it. I thought it belonged in the Packer Forum.

 

[nathaniel]

Painkillers don't help you throw harder or more accurately, or help read defenses better and quicker. Favre has never had a serious injury. That has more to do with his records than painkillers. Painkiller don't stop you from becoming injured. We've seen Favre play hurt. Pain isn't going to stop him from playing, unless the injury is serious enough that he could do serious harm if he continued to play. Painkillers can't prevent those kinds of injuries, and they don't mask those kinds of injuries either. Steroids help build strength, allowing Bonds to hit more balls farther. I'm not taking anything away from Bonds' ability to hit. The man is probably the best hitter of the last decade. But when you add steroids to it, those hits travel farther, resulting in more homeruns. Painkillers aren't going to cause Favre to throw farther, or help his accuracy so he can throw more touchdowns. I'm NOT condoning Favre's use of painkillers. Addiction is addiction. I understand why the comparison is there, but Favre admitted to it. Bonds hasn't and I doubt he ever will. Bonds doesn't see anything wrong with what he did, but Favre did, and went to rehab and straightened himself out. He then went on to become MVP again and help the Packers win the Superbowl to prove Painkillers had no effect on his game.

 

[vike4life]

Favre was not alone. I bet over half the players in the NFL were taking pain killers at that time. Probably, more like 80%. Favre could have played through those injuries without the painkillers, he was just hooked on them. He was alot younger then than now. If he can play through pain now he certainly would have been able to back then. I don't see the comparison at all. Favre is an all time great, and a first time HOF. Bonds cheated. Things should be different for him as well as others who did the same.

 

[dhpackr]

"So Bonds is a despicable human being for taking HGH, I think that is a little overboard... for comparisons sake.

What about Brett's addiction to pain killers. They no doubt maybe have keep him on the field and contributed to the record for most consecutive games played?"

***** what retard posted that pile of crap?!
if anything, i would think being stoned on vicodin would hinder a pro athletes performance, not make him play better. if you can't tell the difference between a performance enhancing drug, and a pain killer, then you must be stoned yourself!

 

[Zero2Cool]

There's a huge difference between the two men's 'pill' issues.

Brett stopped and recovered back in 1996 and is continuing to play. That's about a dozen pill free years for him now? 16 x 11 full seasons or 176 games. That beats Jaws record of 116 by SIXTY games. SIXTY. Obviously the pills weren't THAT big of a factor in that record. Did you know while taking those pills brett was averaging 2-4hrs of sleep a night? That can't be good.

Bonds steroid's is another issue all on its own. It doesnt help him connect with the ball, but it MAY give him that extra UHMFPH to park it.



Football is far more physical than Baseball. A QB is the target in football. In baseball, the ball is the target and sometimes the catcher if your stealing home.

 

[kewlbeans]

Brett made public his addiction to pain killers though he didn't have to.
Brett = admirable.

Barry to this day denies any steroid usage.
Barry = ******

 

[CalifPacker]

Brett admitted it and got the problem fixed. Bonds is using steriods and wont admit and he keeps using them.

I can agree with that.

 

[tromadz]

this isnt a conversation of the men's characters.

obviously bonds is a jerk,etc

lets not stray from the point of the thread!

 

[CaliforniaCheez]

Brett's use was for what, 8 months?? Only part of the 1995 season.

It was over a decade ago!!

Desperate posters will grasp at old trivia.

 

[yooperfan]

This is like comparing apples to pinapples.
There is no comparison.

 

[tromadz]

Brett's use was for what, 8 months?? Only part of the 1995 season.

It was over a decade ago!!

Desperate posters will grasp at old trivia.

desperate posters....WHAT? K...

Yeah, it was only a season, still a bad season, I like what zero said how favre still has a lot of the records even if you take those games out. good call.

 

[all about da packers]

Bonds takes HGH, while Brett was addicted to pain killers.

I think that differentiates the two completely. Brett was in a situation where he couldn't help it. He needed the drugs to keep sane/normal.

Bonds (as far as I know) isn't addicted to steroids. He doesn't need them to function normally.

Bonds has always had the option to stop taking steroids. It was a different situation for Brett, as he was addicted.

That's my 2 cents. Great topic though, and I think zero makes the best point so far.

 

[Raider Pride]

this isnt a conversation of the men's characters.

obviously bonds is a jerk,etc

lets not stray from the point of the thread!

EXACTLY TROM! FORGET ABOUT CHARACTER.....

We all love Brett. Brett is a nicer person than Barry Bonds.

THE QUESTION IS....

Did massive doses of pain killers allow him to start a game that he could not have in "The Streak."

Let's face it. The record that Brett set and is setting now of consecutive games started is a record that may never be broken. It is a record that is untouchable in the fathom of thinking. It is like Cy Young's win record, or the 56 game hitting streak.

The point of the thread is not Bonds' character vs. Brett's.....

The question is this.

If Brett was not taking massive amounts of pain killers at one time would he still have the record for most consecutive starts? Or would he have succumb to the pain and not started a game in that time period? Thus the record would not be in place.

IT IS A SIMPLE QUESTION. "Could Brett have the record with out the aid of massive doses of pain killers?"

Perhaps the pain killers allowed him to make one start that he could not have made with out them. Obviously he was taking massive doses to admit he had a challenge and God Bless Brett for addressing the challenge and getting help.

But the question remains.... Did the drug allow him to keep the record in tact?

 

[PackOne]

Barry = ******

That is my new favorite post.

That's what it all boils down to. At least Brett has a set big enough to admit it. I'm sure the pain killers didn't hurt Brett in his "streak". They may have even kept him in a game or two. Sports is merely a reflection of the world on a grander scale. Drugs hurt people in many different ways. Those are just two of many examples.

 

[BangTheDrum]

Steriods is a drug as well and is addicting

 

[Zero2Cool]

IT IS A SIMPLE QUESTION. "Could Brett have the record with out the aid of massive doses of pain killers?"

Perhaps the pain killers allowed him to make one start that he could not have made with out them. Obviously he was taking massive doses to admit he had a challenge and God Bless Brett for addressing the challenge and getting help.

But the question remains.... Did the drug allow him to keep the record in tact?

I answered this already bro.

Start the tally at the 1996 season. He would STILL have the record by 60 games.

 

[Pack93z]

First I am not a retard as one poster has not claimed nor am I a fan of Barry's practices with HGH/roids.... no doubt that whatever Bonds has taken probably have helped him.

I love Brett as a player and as a person for the way he handled it. The principle of the thought is that each of the players relied on a foreign substance in their body amidst pursuing a record within their game. Zero made an excellent post about the 11 seasons, so the record is intact.

However two glaring questions remain for me. Do we know that Barry hasn't be treated for his addiction (yes steroids can be addicting) and now is on the path of straight and narrow. He passes more tests than any other player in baseball and is tested probably more than any other.

Second question, how do we determine whether a record should be tossed or not?

Factor in the following..

There was no testing back in the day, so what were players taking in the era. What does baseball do with all the stats from the 90's? Which players were abusing. Which records are tainted? Should a player addicted to something such as Cocaine or such, should their records be allowed. L. Taylor was high most of his career, should any of his accomplishments be recognized? And a ton more of that type of question.

 

[Packnic]

first of all theres no way Barry is still on Steroids or HGH or anything illegal. theres entirely too much scrutiny around the MLB and Barry specifically. and hes still belting home runs and closing on the record. when he gets pitched to at least. Hes one of the best hitters the sport has ever seen... hes also one of the best defensively and running the bases. People hated Hank Aaron when he broke Babes record, people will hate Bonds and make up excuses when he breaks Hanks record.

Second of all... Baseball is a cheaters sport. If its not HGH its gonna be corking the bat, if its not that, it will be something else. unlike anything in sports besides NASCAR maybe... baseball players will do anything to get that one little advantage over another player. you take away Barry Bonds HRs you have to take away a majority of the stats from every player in baseball. Every body cheats in baseball, pitchers use sand paper, spit, grease anything to gain a little more movement on a pitch. Managers steal signs, and ignore cheating they know is going on... which is as bad as cheating. Hitters used enhancing drugs to make them stronger..

Granted Zero proved (even though we really dont know, brett could still be on pills) that Favres record is intact. But what Favre did, and what Bonds did are exactly the same. Both players took something to give them an advantage. and neither should have anything taken away.

im not saying encourage cheating, squash it everychance you find it.... but dont take anything away from someone just trying to gain an advantage to win. thats sports.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Granted Zero proved (even though we really dont know, brett could still be on pills) that Favres record is intact. But what Favre did, and what Bonds did are exactly the same. Both players took something to give them an advantage. and neither should have anything taken away.

Just as you say we don't know about Brett being on pills, you can't say that you know Bonds is not. Brett had to enroll in the substance abuse program or whatever it's called which means he gets tested more than the average player.

Plus, his wife threatened to leave him. That is what sparked the fire under his *** to get help for it.

One could argue that Brett is just taking Pills during the season, during the away games when he's not near his wife. Just how realistic is that? Consider everything Brett has been through. His wifes cancer, loss of his father, the loss of brother in law and loss of Reggie White. All that I'm sure has made Brett appreciate life much more than he did 15 years ago. That's not even including his children which as he says are very important to him.

But yeah, Brett could still be taking pills.

 

[Packnic]

i agree its not likely... but we dont know.

but again im not saying we should take anything from him at all....
or Barry for that matter.

im just saying the two instances are similiar.

 

[Zero2Cool]

i agree its not likely... but we dont know.

but again im not saying we should take anything from him at all....
or Barry for that matter.

im just saying the two instances are similiar.

How are they similar? I've read quite a bit and listened to quite a bit of interviews about Brett and his addiction and I've read quite a lot about Bonds and possibly taking steroids.

Brett had an addiction. Announced it to the world. Got help for it.
Bonds denies taking steroids. Announced his innocence to the world. Claims doesn't need help because he doesn't have a problem.

 

[warhawk]

Was the pain killer Favre took mandated as against any rules? My recollectin was he blew the whistile on himself because he was concerned about it becoming a problem.

Vitamins can keep a body healthy(er) than not taking them.

Hell, pretty soon it's going to come down to how many steaks a guy eats in a week. I mean all that protein is an unfair advantage right?