Bobby Tonyan

rodell330

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Seems like hanging out and training with George Kittle is paying off for him. He’s clearly emerged as the #1 Tightend in the offense, and Rodgers seems to trust him. But he too is set to become a free agent after the season. He’s on pace to have double digit touchdowns and over 700 yds receiving. Idk about you guys, but it gives me great comfort knowing that Rodgers May finally have a Tightend that you really have to account for...One of the features kinda overlooked about Tonyan is that he’s a guy who can actually run. If you watch him he gets separation easily from safeties and lbs. we’ve needed that type of presence at tightened for a long time now....makes things so much easier for the other WRs when you have to account for the Tightend.

What will the Packers do? You got Bahk and Jones already...and now you may have a budding star in Tonyan. As much as I like Bahk this is a tough call for me. As I’ve stated before....Jenkins looks the part of a Guy who can be an all pro at any position on the o line. So if they let Bahk go I don’t think it would be as big of blow to the offense as losing Jones. But at the same time Bahk is already considered the best at his position.

The Packers May have to resign Bahk, Franchise tag Jones, and Resign Tonyan during mid season while his price tag is still relatively low. Man, I’d hate to be Russ Ball and Gute right now. Some major decisions on the horizon.
 

PackerDNA

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I probably posted something like this before, but in the past for me with Tonyan, it was always a case of a flash play here or there four or five times a year, otherwise pretty much nothing.
But there's something legitimately different this year. I think all of the lights have come on.
 
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rodell330

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I probably posted something like this before, but in the past for me with Tonyan, it was always a case of a flash play here or there four or five times a year, otherwise pretty much nothing.
But there's something legitimately different this year. I think all of the lights have come on.

Remember Finley was a late bloomer as well. What you just said about Tonyan, I said the same thing about Finley.
 

tynimiller

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He never put it all together until now. Before the first snap of this year he was a JAG, now a STUD :D:D (j/k all in good clean fun)
 

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One must look at the more of the list to make any real decisions. I excluded guys that will make peanuts, such as Malik Taylor or Kabion Ento:

Unrestricted Free Agents
Montravius Adams
David Bakhtiari
*Kenny Clark
Tyler Ervin
Aaron Jones
Kevin King
Marcedes Lewis
Corey Linsley
Lane Taylor
Jamaal Williams

Restricted Free Agents
Tim Boyle
Raven Greene
Tyler Lancaster
Will Redmond
Chandon Sullivan
Robert Tonyan

Exclusive Rights Free Agents
Krys Barnes
Alan Lazard
Yosh Nijmin

* I included Kenny Clark above, because he was set to be a free agent before getting a new deal this year. However, his $70M surely impacts everything that happens below. So he is included as a reminder.



Here is my take in order of priority as of right now, only four games into the season with a projection that we are already $4-5 million over the cap and will need to re-work or cut guys just to break even. I am also taking into account whether or not we have a capable replacement if we let somebody walk:

1. Aaron Jones - top priority as a game changer and do-it-all RB giving Aaron Rodgers options on offense. Luckily the RB market is not as hot these days as other positions, so he won't break the bank.

<<>>Stop right there. Everybody else is replaceable<<>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Kevin King - I catch flack for not putting Bakhtiari here, but you can read my thoughts below. King is the perfect #2 opposite Jaire Alexander. If he continues to stay healthy then he is worth paying the money to keep a solid defensive secondary intact. We do not have anyone that can play as well as King in the #2 spot, except for possibly Sullivan but I don't think he's there.

3. Robert Tonyan - This deal won't cost a lot unless he turns into the next Kittle, but even if he does, one year does not make a superstar. However, unless Sternberger turns it on later this year we need to keep a productive tight end on the team. We don't have a replacement.

4. Raven Greene - The do-it-all hybrid is our modern day Micah Hyde. Guys like this can be used as needed on the defense, are invaluable against ingenuitive offenses.

5. Alan Lazard - He is looking to be a solid #2 WR and would be a low cost signing with a high impact and upside. MVS is a good #3 but fails to get to Lazard's level.

6. Chandon Sullivan - This kid can play and has been effective. He's not great but should be able to be brought back on a cap-friendly deal.

7. Tyler Ervin - He gets the nod here since he adds a lot to the offense even when the numbers don't show it. He is also our kick returner and a better option over Jamaal Williams when we can't keep both. Williams is a better RB, but Ervin has more value being a RB/WR/Returner who won't cost as much.

8. Will Redmon
- He's more than just a backup safety, but when it comes down to it that's really what he is to us. Savage left the Falcons game and Redmon took his place. We still need that kind of guy on the roster.

9. Krys Barnes
- I'm still not sure what kind of a player Barnes is, except that I know he's a rookie. He made some plays against the Vikings and seems to mostly hold his own. However, rookies tend to be up and down and that's all that I see right now. Bring him back and see what we've got.

10. Lane Taylor
- Lane will not cost much to bring back, loves Green Bay, and will not get a sniff from other teams with his injury history. We will need Taylor as a top backup OL and he will need to stay healthy on the sidelines.

10. Tyler Lancaster - Run stuffer, good backup, average replacement for Kenny Clark. We need guys like this since top DL are hard to find. He won't cost a ton to re-sign.

11. Yosh Nijmin - Assuming that Bakh and Linsley are gone, we will need more depth at OL and Nijmin fits the bill. He's not quite ready for primetime but alreay has snaps under his belt.




Allowed to leave:


David Bakhtiari
- I would love to sign Bakhtiari, but do believe that Elgin could take over the reigns. The problem is that if we sign both Jones and Bakhtiari (after already doing Kenny Clark), there is virtually no room for anyone else. I love Bakhtiari, but in the world of salary caps I think that they have to let him walk. Other teams would kill for a Pro Bowl right tackle with gas in the tank. Not signing Bakhtiari will allow us to re-sign a lot of other guys that make this team work.

Corey Linsley
- Linsley is a solid center, but so is Lucas Patrick. If Linsley commands any serious interest on the market (which he likely will) I think that the Packers will have to trust Patrick to snap the ball and captain the OL. You hate to let good players go, but we don't have tons of money and tough choices need to be made.

Jamaal Williams -
He is proving his worth this year, and somebody will pay him money. Unfortunately for him, we drafted Dillon and have the flexibility to keep Swirvin Ervin, who gets the slight edge due to kick returning abilities. I love Williams on the field and in the locker room, but that just isn't enough in today's league.

Marcedes Lewis - He will be past his prime and usefulness, since we actually now have three TEs that can all block in Tonyan, Sternberger, and Deguara.

Montravius Adams - What a bust. He shouldn't have made the roster in 2020 but we didn't have a lot of options. Gone.

Tim Boyle - What's not to like about the kid. He is our modern Doug Peterson. However, we drafted Love in the first round and therefore he will be our #2 next season unless the coaching staff assesses him to be a complete train wreck. Boyle is on the roster this year in case Rodgers gets hurt. If Rodgers gets hurt next year, it will be all up to Love.
 
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rodell330

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Now would be a great time for Rodgers to restructure...unfortunately they can’t add years onto his contract because that essentially guarantees Love becomes a wasted 1st rd pick as I can’t see them cutting Rodgers ...especially with him looking like he can play another 4-5 yrs at a high level
 

tynimiller

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1. Aaron Jones - top priority as a game changer and do-it-all RB giving Aaron Rodgers options on offense. Luckily the RB market is not as hot these days as other positions, so he won't break the bank.

<<>>Stop right there. Everybody else is replaceable<<>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Merely seeking clarity on how you craft the term replaceable?


Otherwise dude I love your post, even despite not complete agreeance at time LOVE it when in depth look at stuff happens and is laid out like you did.

In attempt at sharing in the discussion I also had started going through all as you did, and will add quick notes of difference or additional thoughts:



Unrestricted Free Agents
Montravius Adams
David Bakhtiari
*Kenny Clark
Tyler Ervin
Aaron Jones
Kevin King
Marcedes Lewis
Corey Linsley
Lane Taylor
Jamaal Williams

Restricted Free Agents
Tim Boyle
Raven Greene
Tyler Lancaster
Will Redmond
Chandon Sullivan
Robert Tonyan

Exclusive Rights Free Agents
Krys Barnes
Alan Lazard
Yosh Nijmin


*My list isn't necessarily much different...but...


1. Aaron Jones - All you said is 100%...but...can the team replace him collectively with Ervin/Williams/Dillon/DrafteeorUDFA2021? Paying big running backs isn't something we've ever done and for the most part doesn't happen...while logic and "normalcy" in NFL says pay your Tackle at cost of RB...I more and more lean your way and say sign Jones, let's roll dice on lineman: our organization does above average finding OL in the draft.


2. Kevin King - I don't disagree with anything you said here either...I might thing Sullivan is closer than you but both agree not there yet. The issue with King is what kind of money is he going to get on the market...while I would love to see us not continue to always be chasing our tail at CBs each year trying to find that #2...I don't want to pay #1CB money to ensure we have our #2. I make King a serious offer that isn't chump change...but also expect him to play the market.

3. Robert Tonyan - I'M 100% A FAN OF EXTENSION NOW. It isn't a massive one, could lace it with some incentives and keep it 2 or 3 years, allowing Tonyan to set up for still one massive payday for himself and his career as he would still be south of 30 years old.

4. Raven Greene - AGREE 100%....BUT I move him down below Sullivan if forced to prioritize.

5. Alan Lazard - He is our #2, despite not really being a #2 level (at least not yet). He hasn't proven enough to garner a huge payday, and yet has proven he is a Packer and should be into the future. Lock this guy down.

6. Chandon Sullivan - I'm willing to ink a 2 year deal here. He has proven more than expected, and appears to be showcasing that 19' wasn't a fluke just as Lazard is doing.

7. Tyler Ervin - We are losing Williams OR Jones no matter what scenario one plays out. Ervin's value is high in this system as it is, and that will only intensify. We have no one even nibbling at his heels for his role and what he provides (honestly...I'd say Darrius is the closest and it is FAR).

8. Will Redmond
- Agree with you 100% and honestly...part of me wants to say with the emergence of Barnes...growth of Summers and when Kamal comes back Greene's hybrid role becomes hopefully even less needed and I could see argument of moving Redmond ahead of priorty vs Greene.

9. Krys Barnes - 100% worth bring back. Everyone knows I was a fanboy once draft closed to target him, ecstatic when we did and STILL SHOCKED at what he is providing us. You have no way of knowing if he will regress, merely stabilize or progress...but LORDY let's find out!

10. Lane Taylor
- Every letter you wrote I couldn't have said it better.

10. Tyler Lancaster - Since I think cutting Lowry is needed, Lancaster provides the backup role and will be cheap.

11. Yosh Nijmin - Will garner ZERO looks most likely from other teams, we will need depth facing IMO a Wagner cut, Linsley or Bahk or both departing and Lane coming back from injury.

Allowed to leave:

David Bakhtiari
- You said it, I agree with it. This one sucks big time though.

Corey Linsley
- Patrick and Hanson will battle for C in 2021. Only way Linsley is even up for discussion is if Bahk leaves us...even then I don't see it.

Jamaal Williams -
He will be worth whatever another team pays him and maybe more...we simply cannot afford him with keeping Jones. Will miss what he puts forth on the field and in interviews LOL!!!!

Marcedes Lewis - BIG DAWG!!! I pray we give ya a super bowl and this was your curtain call year. God's speed brother, its time.

Montravius Adams - He's been given the chances we waited on Tonyan, time is over moving along.

Tim Boyle - Boyle I think has earned shot at a #2 elsewhere and we don't want him to be that for us in 2021. Nothing to hate about what he has provided and done in his role.

All Guys Worthy of Considering a Cut

Wagner - Sorry, not even close to worth the money he'll cost. GONE 100% IMO

Lowry - Worthy of considering moving on. His cost in 2021 would NOT be garnered in what we get. GONE 100% IMO

Burks - Again just shy of a million saved but very much worth it and easily replaced....essentially already is. GONE 100% IMO

Turner - This one is tricky and depends a lot on OL choices made...frees up a decent chunk...but we could potentially face replacing Bahk, Linsley and him then....

Funchess - I'm intrigued to see on this one. He is still essentially cheap...but does free up some as well. With continued MVS growth, Lazard progression...hopefully see more of ESB and Darrius the same...throw Funchess in cheap for remainder of contract would allow us to focus elsewhere.

Kirksey - This would wrinkle some feathers BUT if Barnes keeps doing his thing, Summers keeps progressing and Kamal is who they think he is...Kirksey cut would free up some cash for sure.....I like Kirksey...but this could make sense.

Jackson - Josh cut would free up about $1.3M...if we resign King and also Sullivan, this is a very quick and easy $1.3M GONE IMO due to I think we resign King and make sure Sully is here at least one more season.
 

PackerDNA

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No question I'd rather have Tonyan, and letting Graham go was the right move for a number of reasons. But why does Graham look so much better with the Bears than he did with the Packers?
 

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No question I'd rather have Tonyan, and letting Graham go was the right move for a number of reasons. But why does Graham look so much better with the Bears than he did with the Packers?
I just saw that great TD grab he had but I have no idea what else he’s done with them.
 

PackerDNA

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I've caught parts of Bears games, and he just looks all around better. Not what he was in his prime, but better than he was with us
 

Dantés

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Probably hasn’t been injured yet

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Guys play through stuff all the time. If it isn't affecting their practice participation, it typically doesn't get reported. Older guys also tend to play better early in the season.

It's also true that Nagy's offense is a better fit for a guy like Graham than LaFleur's, where tight ends are asked to do a lot more dirty work.
 

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Graham's juicing, there is no question in my mind.

Also, IMO Tonyan would have broken out if he was healthy last year. His injury really set him back, and Graham's contract likely earned him more playing time anyway. With Graham out of the picture it was always gonna be Tonyan time. Now, hopefully he keeps it up.
 

Mondio

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WoW! Don't they test that too often for players to get away with it?
They're always a couple steps behind with testing. Somewhere, someone has a way to evade or cycle around them. When you're in your 30's and have been a highly conditioned athlete for over a decade you're not making noticeable changes in your physical appearance by "tweaking" things in the offseason. your athleticism isn't going to improve either. Not without help. but usually only the young guys get away with it. the older guys just end up injured again.
 
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Just for information, exclusive rights free agents like Lazard and Barnes can be retained by signing them to a one-year, minimum deal. Therefore there's no doubt both of them will be back in 2021. With Greene, Lancaster, Sullivan and Tonyan being restricted free agents it's probable the Packers will be able to re-sign them for cheap as well.

The Packers will most likely need to make some moves to even get under the cap for next season so signing Jones to a lucrative deal shouldn't be considered a smart move. It just doesn't make sense to allocate a significant portion of the available cap to a running back.
 

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Just for information, exclusive rights free agents like Lazard and Barnes can be retained by signing them to a one-year, minimum deal. Therefore there's no doubt both of them will be back in 2021. With Greene, Lancaster, Sullivan and Tonyan being restricted free agents it's probable the Packers will be able to re-sign them for cheap as well.

The Packers will most likely need to make some moves to even get under the cap for next season so signing Jones to a lucrative deal shouldn't be considered a smart move. It just doesn't make sense to allocate a significant portion of the available cap to a running back.

sadly agreed on jones

bakh should be a much higher priority. letting both bakh and linsley walk would be nuts, imo, and much rather keep bakh. i do expect to lose at least 2 OL guys though :( linsley and turner at least. going to be losing a lot of guys i really like, but so is every other team.
 

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sadly agreed on jones

bakh should be a much higher priority. letting both bakh and linsley walk would be nuts, imo, and much rather keep bakh. i do expect to lose at least 2 OL guys though :( linsley and turner at least. going to be losing a lot of guys i really like, but so is every other team.
I think if we can’t come to a long term agreement with bahk it would make sense to franchise him. I agree I want jones here long term him and Adams are the best players besides Rodgers. I think jones is gonna leave tho they would have signed him by now. They didn’t draft Dillon in the second round for no reason. Bahk needs to be number 1 priority. If Green Bay is 100% on Jordan love being the future of the packers then Rodgers is gone after next year no doubt in my mind if you look at the cap numbers. They could even trade him this offseason depending on how the season goes. They got a lot of people to resign they should trade Linsley now and get something more than a 3rd round pick in comp? There line is good so idk if that’s a good idea or not
 

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Merely seeking clarity on how you craft the term replaceable?
It sounds like we have pretty similar thoughts. In terms of a player being replaceable, they obviously all are so I just meant to we have another Aaron Jones on the roster ready to step in. At this point, neither Dillon nor Williams could come close to filling Aaron Jones' shoes. Conversely, Linsley is replaceable because Lucas Patrick has filled in so well. The replacement may not be a 1-for-1, but not a steep drop-off from the starter they might replace.
 

El Guapo

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BTW - this is a Robert Tonyan thread so I'll address him specifically. I loved when he caught that 54 yard TD in the back of the end zone his rookie season. This season he seems to have potentially turned the corner, especially after dominating Atlanta's third stringers in the secondary. However, I don't think that he's the second coming and might be more up and down than many of us want to see. I'll sit tight and hope to be pleasantly surprised. It would be great if he's got the goods to be a consistent TE in LeFluer's scheme. I'm not sure that he is LeFluer's ideal TE, but LeFluer and Rodgers seem to be finding ways to play to Tonyan's strengths. That's what I expect out of all good coaches.
 

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BTW - this is a Robert Tonyan thread so I'll address him specifically. I loved when he caught that 54 yard TD in the back of the end zone his rookie season. This season he seems to have potentially turned the corner, especially after dominating Atlanta's third stringers in the secondary. However, I don't think that he's the second coming and might be more up and down than many of us want to see. I'll sit tight and hope to be pleasantly surprised. It would be great if he's got the goods to be a consistent TE in LeFluer's scheme. I'm not sure that he is LeFluer's ideal TE, but LeFluer and Rodgers seem to be finding ways to play to Tonyan's strengths. That's what I expect out of all good coaches.

I mean he's bound to slow down in terms of production and such but if he gets them 40+ receptions, 500+ yards and say 12+ tuddies they'll find a way to live with him.

Long term prognosis, he's got the trademarks of a late bloomer high tier TE. In terms of physical talent he's fairly loose for a big guy, runs in the the high 4.5 low 4.6 range, showed a 125 inch broad jump at his pro day. He converted from QB to WR in college where he flourished and then changed again to TE in the NFL, as a small school player he was bound to need additional adjustment time. Now after that corner you referred to, he just came off the biggest game of his career which happened to a nationally televised game.

Personally I think he's got an interesting background where Rodgers comes in, he played high school quarterback and stuck to the position during his freshman year before converting. I wouldn't be surprised if he sees coverages the way Aaron Rodgers wants, Rodgers tends to favor former quarterbacks. He catches almost everything with his hands(QB) goes up strong for the ball with defenders around and that corner stop route against Detroit was a thing of beauty.

MLFs offense is all about keeping the defense off balance, and quite frankly if we can trot out Adams and MVS on the outside, with Lazard in the slot and Tonyan either in the slot as well or in line with Jones in the backfield that would be a tough offense to deal with personnel wise. A DC would have to confront Adams' sublime route running MVS' long speed, Lazard's physicality inside and Tonyan's relative speed against the seam. Throw in Jones' rushing out of the backfield and you have an offense that can beat defenses all over the field.
 

gopkrs

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I mean he's bound to slow down in terms of production and such but if he gets them 40+ receptions, 500+ yards and say 12+ tuddies they'll find a way to live with him.

Long term prognosis, he's got the trademarks of a late bloomer high tier TE. In terms of physical talent he's fairly loose for a big guy, runs in the the high 4.5 low 4.6 range, showed a 125 inch broad jump at his pro day. He converted from QB to WR in college where he flourished and then changed again to TE in the NFL, as a small school player he was bound to need additional adjustment time. Now after that corner you referred to, he just came off the biggest game of his career which happened to a nationally televised game.

Personally I think he's got an interesting background where Rodgers comes in, he played high school quarterback and stuck to the position during his freshman year before converting. I wouldn't be surprised if he sees coverages the way Aaron Rodgers wants, Rodgers tends to favor former quarterbacks. He catches almost everything with his hands(QB) goes up strong for the ball with defenders around and that corner stop route against Detroit was a thing of beauty.

MLFs offense is all about keeping the defense off balance, and quite frankly if we can trot out Adams and MVS on the outside, with Lazard in the slot and Tonyan either in the slot as well or in line with Jones in the backfield that would be a tough offense to deal with personnel wise. A DC would have to confront Adams' sublime route running MVS' long speed, Lazard's physicality inside and Tonyan's relative speed against the seam. Throw in Jones' rushing out of the backfield and you have an offense that can beat defenses all over the field.
I liked what you said for the most part. Everyone likes to say that a player has finally bloomed or something when they do some good things. I don't think Tonyan has had all that many chances until recently. Graham took all the plays for a 1st string tight end and Rodgers seemed to want to throw it to him. Maybe Tonyan has been pretty good all along. Hands don't just all of a sudden happen because of some practice despite what some claim about Aaron Jones.
 

PikeBadger

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sadly agreed on jones

bakh should be a much higher priority. letting both bakh and linsley walk would be nuts, imo, and much rather keep bakh. i do expect to lose at least 2 OL guys though :( linsley and turner at least. going to be losing a lot of guys i really like, but so is every other team.
Amen to that. This isn’t just a Packer problem. The whole league is going through this. It’s a very bad year to be a vet and have your contract expire unless you are elite at your position.
 

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