Bittersweet - 49ers and Bucs

captainWIMM

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In my opinion that is only true for sports that have best of 7 series. It is not true for a single elimination sport such as football, where a lesser team could beat a better team by luck. That's why football has the saying "Any given Sunday".

I don't believe there's a way for an underdog to win an NFL playoff game based purely on luck.

While the team losing might have been the better one on paper there's no argument to be made they were on the field if they end up being eliminated.

I agree. How many times have we said "the better team did not win today".

I don't know about you but I have never said that.
 

pacmaniac

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I don't believe there's a way for an underdog to win an NFL playoff game based purely on luck.
There was a lot of luck on the 49ers side when they upset the Packers in 1999. They were really lucky a fumble wasn't called on Jerry Rice. They were lucky Steve Young managed to maintain his footing when he slipped while dropping back on his final pass. They were lucky that Terrell Owens - who had 3 drops earlier in the game - didn't drop the ball in the end zone after being pounded by 2 Packers.
 

captainWIMM

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There was a lot of luck on the 49ers side when they upset the Packers in 1999. They were really lucky a fumble wasn't called on Jerry Rice. They were lucky Steve Young managed to maintain his footing when he slipped while dropping back on his final pass. They were lucky that Terrell Owens - who had 3 drops earlier in the game - didn't drop the ball in the end zone after being pounded by 2 Packers.

Yet the Niners made enough plays to win while the Packers didn't.
 

sschind

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I don't believe there's a way for an underdog to win an NFL playoff game based purely on luck.

While the team losing might have been the better one on paper there's no argument to be made they were on the field if they end up being eliminated.



I don't know about you but I have never said that.
You might be the only one then.
 

sschind

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Yet the Niners made enough plays to win while the Packers didn't.
I don't think that automatically makes them the best team. If you think the best team on the field wins every game every time and every team that wins the game is the best team then your definition of best is different than mine.

Do you honestly believe the 7-9 Seahawks were better than the 11-5 Saints in 2010. And yet they defeated them in the playoffs.
 
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El Guapo

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There was a lot of luck on the 49ers side when they upset the Packers in 1999. They were really lucky a fumble wasn't called on Jerry Rice. They were lucky Steve Young managed to maintain his footing when he slipped while dropping back on his final pass. They were lucky that Terrell Owens - who had 3 drops earlier in the game - didn't drop the ball in the end zone after being pounded by 2 Packers.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but offering that there are multiple angles to view even that game from:
- Maybe it wasn't luck, but Jerry Rice's impressive credentials that led the officials to not rule it a fumble
- Steve Young was a great QB, so instead of luck it could have been his great balance that allowed him to not fall down for a sack
- Terrell Owens, while still learning to be a great WR at the time, clearly ran the route perfectly and was strong enough to hold onto the ball despite the double-hit.

Viewing any teams' win as lucky may be true, but based upon the lens it is viewed through may also be neglecting to recognize the skill and determination that also contributed to a win. I still think that the Packers were darn lucky to beat the Raiders in the "Irv Favre" game. Brett through some of those balls into double and even triple coverage. They were lucky catches, but I also can't dismiss how hard the Packers WRs were trying to not let Brett down in that game. They made some incredible plays because they had incredible motivation. Some of those plays sure looked lucky though! :)
 

captainWIMM

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The Packers probably would have won a best out of 7 series though.

That's possible but obviously doesn't matter.

I don't think that automatically makes them the best team. If you think the best team on the field wins every game every time and every team that wins the game is the best team then your definition of best is different than mine.

Do you honestly believe the 7-9 Seahawks were better than the 11-5 Saints in 2010. And yet they defeated them in the playoffs.

In my opinion a team winning makes them the better team that day. There's a chance the losing one would have won the majority of games played against their opponent but if they can't perform up to potential when it counts it doesn't matter.
 

sschind

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That's possible but obviously doesn't matter.



In my opinion a team winning makes them the better team that day. There's a chance the losing one would have won the majority of games played against their opponent but if they can't perform up to potential when it counts it doesn't matter.

Fair enough.
 

Guacamole

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Packers will need to play three excellent games in a row over very good teams to win a another Lombardi. The special teams can't implode. The defense has to cover TE's, contain running qb's and not get gashed in the running game and the offense has to avoid slow starts and red zone problems. Lot of big ifs but they have the talent. The question is do they have the coaching?
"IF" they did this throughout the season,they would be undefeated
 

pacmaniac

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That's possible but obviously doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter in terms of who won an individual game, but it matters in terms of judging who the overall better team is.

In my opinion a team winning makes them the better team that day. There's a chance the losing one would have won the majority of games played against their opponent but if they can't perform up to potential when it counts it doesn't matter.
It's not always the case that the team that wins was the better team that day. Was Seattle the better team in the Fail Mary game? Take away the unlucky and incorrect call at the end, and they probably weren't better that day.
 
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It's not always the case that the team that wins was the better team that day. Was Seattle the better team in the Fail Mary game? Take away the unlucky and incorrect call at the end, and they probably weren't better that day.
I’ve seen this in many instances. There are many games that either a referee misses an infraction altogether, throws an unnecessary flag or there’s a turnover worthy play that doesn’t get called that would’ve ended a contest.
Obviously you don’t want to put yourself in a situation to allow 1 or 2 bad calls to eliminate your team from contention. However there is some good fortune or bad fortune in many games that affect the outcome
 

sschind

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That's possible but obviously doesn't matter.



In my opinion a team winning makes them the better team that day. There's a chance the losing one would have won the majority of games played against their opponent but if they can't perform up to potential when it counts it doesn't matter.
I'd like to add to my fair enough comment above. That's your opinion and I respect it but I would like to add that like my belief that the winning team is not always the best team, the better team that day is not always the best team. There are lots of reasons a team may win a game and they do not always mean that the better team won. The only thing you can say with certainty is the team that scored the most points won. That team may or not not be the better team. They may or may not be the best team. They will however, always be the winning team. And that's the team I want.
 

captainWIMM

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It doesn't matter in terms of who won an individual game, but it matters in terms of judging who the overall better team is.

You're purely speculating on that while ignoring what happened in the game actually having being played.

It's not always the case that the team that wins was the better team that day. Was Seattle the better team in the Fail Mary game? Take away the unlucky and incorrect call at the end, and they probably weren't better that day.

The Fail Mary game is one of the few games I agree with that the better team lost the game because it was such an egregious call that decided the game.

The Packers weren't good enough to put the game away earlier either though.

There are lots of reasons a team may win a game and they do not always mean that the better team won.

Aside of the refs having a huge impact on the outcome of the game the teams control their own destiny. And if one of the team makes enough plays to win it they were the better team that day in my opinion.
 

pacmaniac

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You're purely speculating on that while ignoring what happened in the game actually having being played.

What happened in the game was the 49ers getting extremely lucky on the egregious missed fumble. If the refs call that, the 49ers lose.

The Fail Mary game is one of the few games I agree with that the better team lost the game because it was such an egregious call that decided the game.
Okay, it sounded like you were saying the team that wins is ALWAYS the better team.
 

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