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Biggest FA loss and Biggest 2006/2007 problem

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Robin Yount, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. Robin Yount

    Robin Yount Cheesehead

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    Ryan Longwell

    About 96.5% of Packer fans (random polling of 1000 random Packer fans) underestimate the loss of Longwell. Having a quality veteran kicker could be the single most important ingredient to a winning season.

    The loss of Longwell and the inability or unwillingness to sign a top kicker will be our biggest problem in 2006/2007. A good kicker not only counts for field position but gets those needed points on the board.

    An argument can be made that Longwell was off his game last year, but he would still be better than a kicker that makes less than 50% of his kicks over 35 yards and kicks low line drives to the 10 yard line on kick-offs.

    Doubters may think I am wrong, but look at our rivals to the west in Queenland. They have been looking for a kicker since 2000. That has contributed to their recent demise.

    I think they may have just solved their kicker problem.
     
  2. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    From what I have gathered (sorry can't reveal sources), TT tried to keep Longwell. He offered him a deal less than the Vikings, but TT went in contract negotiations bent on not overpaying Longwell, and he thought he could get away with a lower offer because Longwell would be faithful to the Packers, and accept a lesser offer to return.

    TT underestimated Ryan in this regard, and indeed it may prove to be very costly come 2006/2007 (and beyond).
     
  3. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    if it took 5 years fir the vikes to get a man who can kick in a dome...then they have more problems than a kicker.
     
  4. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    I don't think the Kicker is this teams BIGGEST problem but it's definitely a concern.

    I'm just hoping someone else will be brought in but I doubt it. If we go into the season with Cundiff we are going to have big problems. Cundiff is an absolute disaster. I would rather have ANY kicker available over Cundiff!
     
  5. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    how about Jose Cortez?

    it could always be worse lol...keep in mind Cundiff was hurt last season as well. and no, im not excited at all about our Kicking situation. you'd have to be insane to put a positive spin on this one.
     
  6. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    I have been saying the same thing for months Robin, the gosth or Ryan Longwell will come back to haunt us badly..

    We will be loosing games for having a bad kicker, as we have been in trouble for having a bad punter the last 2 seasons..

    Billy "The kid" Cundiff is not the answer he is more another problem....I dont know maybe its me but anytime that I see someone who´s called on a diminutive of his own name I have the feeling that you cant trust him, he will never grow up.

    Do you imagine "Bretty" Favre, "Joey" Montana or "little Ray" Nietschke???
     
  7. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    Cundiff had a very similar field goal percentage to Longwell last year. I know Longwell is better than what he showed last year, but his problems with holders are huge and there is no guarantee that he could overcome those problems and do any better this year. He has seen the best of his days come and go. At least with Cundiff he could develop and get better and be a pleasant suprise. That isn't incredibly likely, but as long as he is servicable it should be alright.
     
  8. dhpackr

    dhpackr Cheesehead

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    Javon Walker.
     
  9. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    Well, you're got to give TT credit for one thing. At least he's consistent.
     
  10. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Kicker/schmicker....there is very little difference between the "topnotch" kickers and "average" kickers. I mentioned this in another thread. The biggest difference between Vinatieri and the others is the opportunity. Vin had the opportunity to kick big field goals...others didn't.

    It's a crapshoot with kickers. You hold your breath and hope for the best...no matter how successful they have been. Just ask the Colts and queens about Vanderjagt and Andersen.

    Save the money from a bigtime kicker and spend it on REAL football players.
     
  11. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Vinateiri won New England's last 3 Super Bowls. To me, that is about as real as it gets.

    The biggest difference between the "topnotch" kickers and "average" kickers is that the "average" kickers miss a lot more, and can't be relied on as much in cold weather and clutch situations.

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  12. billv

    billv Cheesehead

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    two years ago, Longwell was great in the clutch. But overall he wasn't a great clutch kicker for the Pack,especially last year.
     
  13. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I think our biggest lost was Javon Walker. He's a great talented WR but it was pretty much a given that Walker was going to be gone next year. So getting something for him was the right move in my opinion.
     
  14. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    I agree. He was gone either way. At least we got something out of it than just a 10 week holdout.

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  15. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    You're exactly right......they got Al Harris preparing to do the same.
     
  16. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Longwell wanted to kick in a dome......wanted to pad his stats. He didn't want to stay here. And, his holder problem was HUGE. I'm not happy he's gone, but what can you do? It's not like he was coming off a great year. Maybe he's done......i don't know.
    Walker, another one you couldn't do anything about. He did'nt want to be here, period.
    You hate to lose good players, but you can't stop them.
     
  17. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    To get Longwell or Vinateri we would have had to outpay a dome team. We probably had the money to spare, but spending that kind of cash on a Kicker is unreasonable per Ted Thomspon and I probably would have to agree. We thought we were out of luck when Conway got injured and there comes this kid from Cal who kicks his way into Packers record book as the all time scorer. It's not often it happens, but it does. And when you're the Packers and have an issue with depth you have to spend money on the depth instead of a Kicker.

    Walker, I guess you can say he was a lost cause. But I really think if we would have given him a 1 mil bonus or something and told him at week 8 we'll look at redoing his contract before the end of the season. I think he could have been saved, but would have been tricky.

    I don't know Walker personally so I could be completely wrong.
     
  18. Robin Yount

    Robin Yount Cheesehead

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    A good kicker will usually win 2 to 3 games a year on last second or clutch field goals. An average or below average kicker could lose those games.

    If an opponent's average starting field position is beyond the 30 yard line due to poor kickoffs, we will be playing catch up in most games. Longwell didn't have excellent kick-offs but they were definitely above servicable.

    I still contend the loss of Longwell will be alot worse than the loss of Javon.

    and Depack, I have seen the proof with numerous teams what the loss of a good kicker can do. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE IT. That is why teams scramble when a couple top kicker's become available.
     
  19. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    The problem is that a good kicker today might not be a good kicker tomorrow. Again, I present Vandejagt for the colts and anderson for the queens. Kicking was a major "strongpoint" for these teams. They both lost out on going to the Superbowl because of their kickers.

    Like I said every kick is a crapshoot. All pro kickers make between 75-90%. Get yourself a good kicker but don't overpay for a "superstar".
     
  20. Robin Yount

    Robin Yount Cheesehead

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    Anderson was on his last legs for the Queens at that time anyway. He was almost 62 years old in 1998. Bad example. If you meant Mort, he was never really effective for them anyway and he was also too old.

    As for Vandy he won many many games for the Colts and wasn't that old for a FG kicker. I actually think Indy cut him prematurely. Christ, he made 23 of 25 FGs last year. 7/8 over 40 yards. Its not his fault that he didn't get alot of attempts. With an ability to kick distance with accuracy and a 92% accuracy rate why would they cut him? This is why:

    He has the personality of Ann Coulter on acid.

    Without Vandy the Colts would not have gotten as far as they did. In 1998 without Anderson the Queens also would not have gotten as far as they did. A poor kicker will shut the door on a teams chances of a post season run before that door ever opens.
     
  21. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Bad example? The douchebag made every kick of the season.....never missed one......went to the Pro Bowl........yea.....bad example! :roll:


    My point is you can't count on ANY kicker. It's a crapshoot!!!
     
  22. Robin Yount

    Robin Yount Cheesehead

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    My point is, wouldn't you rather get to the verge of a superbowl birth with a good kicker and have a chance to go, rather than not making the playoffs at all?

    A good kicker misses once in awhile too, but a bad kicker misses often.

    Vandy and Anderson could just as easily have made those kicks based on their talent. Who would you want kicking a big game kick for us . . . Vandy/Vinetari or Cundiff? I would take Vandy or Vinetari over Cundiff any day of the week.

    But it sounds like you are happy with Cundiff or someone of his level of talent to make the clutch kicks for us. I disagree.
     
  23. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    we really havent seen cundiff kick yet for the Pack, never know what he can pull off..

    but I see the points in you want a proven kicker..it is just a shame that Adam V choose to go to the dome, and even sadder that he was almost inked here..
     
  24. calicheesehead

    calicheesehead Cheesehead

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    Hopefully the Vikes won't have a decent holder for cryin' Ryan.
     
  25. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Green Bay isn't going to the Super Bowl any time soon. If we were coming off a 11-5 or heck even a playoff season then I think kicker would be a more immediate concern.

    We're a 500 team and we really could put the $$$ elsewhere. As things move forward though, we will need too find a kicker. Hopefully a good one.
     

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