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Best QB's in the NFL: How high is Rodgers?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, May 24, 2010.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Good article today from Seifert at ESPN.com, this answering one question about each team in the NFC North from readers:

    Richard of New Orleans writes: This is a pet peeve of mine -- the claim that lists Aaron Rodgers as a top-3 QB. I've seen Ben Roethlisberger listed as a top-5 QB. Whenever I see a claim of this sort, I always would like to ask them to list the Top X QB's. Rodgers, right now, is not a better QB than Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Brett Favre. The claim of Rodgers being top-3 is absurd. ... I don't think this claim is defensible.

    Kevin Seifert: "Absurd" might be a bit strong, but I wouldn't put Rodgers ahead of Brees, Manning, Brady or Favre based on last season, either. But at this time next year, we could easily be singing a different tune.

    In reality, however, these distinctions are arbitrary. Frankly, it makes more sense to gather all of the game's best quarterbacks into one "elite" category than come up with a random number that requires artificial inclusion or exclusion. If we wanted to come up with an "elite" grouping of quarterbacks, I would include these names:
    1. Drew Brees
    2. Peyton Manning
    3. Brett Favre
    4. Tom Brady
    5. Aaron Rodgers
    6. Philip Rivers
    7. Ben Roethlisberger
    Call it a top-7.
     
  2. TheGiftedApe

    TheGiftedApe TheGiftedApe

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    heres my list

    1.Brees
    2.Manning
    3.Rodgers
    4.Rivers
    5.Brady
     
  3. A12ROD903

    A12ROD903 Cheesehead

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    Switch Brady and Rodgers. I feel Brady is fading, but people will throw the Super Bowl argument out there... so Ill stop now. lol


    PS: I have never been a Brady fan, hes on my NFL's Most Hated list.
     
  4. Moshtradamus

    Moshtradamus Cheesehead

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    To be honest with you I dont think Brady is that good anymore. Hes really the argument when you compare Dan Marino to Joe Montana and you say "Well Dan had better numbers but Joe won more championships." Brady only had one great year but other than that he had never done anything really impressive. Earlier in his year when he did win championships he sat back and relaxed while his defense and kicker won all the games. But if you look before Moss he was just above average as far as his statistics are concerned. And Im not saying hes a bad QB but in most peoples rankings they place him at number 3 and I just dont see it.

    Brees: I think hes the total package. He has mobility and has done it mostly with nothing in his career with New Orleans. He made a 7th round selection in Marques Colston to a great receiver (He uses that 6'4 frame to full advantage with great accuracy) and even made a 5'9 Lance Moore look good.
    Manning: In my opinion he has been spoiled his entire career with a good offense. Indy built him a line drafted him good receivers, and even gave him a pair of 1st round backs. IMO Brees does more with less on his offense.
    Rodgers: I think the issue here is his clutch with most writers. Rodgers just hasnt been able to win the big games and even though its not his fault it will always go back to the QB. However he is a total package QB. He has excellent mobility and a great arm. His biggest asset is his ability to throw on the run, something that Brady cannot do.
    Rivers: Rivers has probably been the most consistent QB out of all of them. But like Manning the team has really pampered him with a high powered offense. His consistency has really lead to his way above the like of Ben and Brady.
    Brady: Finally we have Tom Brady at the bottom of our top 5. Nothing against TB but I listed why above. Hes been above average before Moss and really was just above average last season also. He isnt a total package guy as he has no real athleticism and cant throw when forced to move around and scramble.
     
  5. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Like I said referring to top teams, I think it has to be listed into tiers, rather than from 1-32 or whatever.

    And I agree completely with Seifert. The elite QBs are the ones he listed. Warner would be on that list, but he retired.

    Rating what they did last season, I'd rate Brees, Manning, Favre, Rodgers, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Brady.

    If I had to list based on career, I'd go Brady, Favre, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers.

    But if I had to list based on what I believe they'll be next year, I'd go Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Rivers, Favre, Brady, Roethlisberger.

    So, all in all, the top tier of QBs consists of them, with Eli, Romo, McNabb, Palmer, Cutler on the 2nd...
     
  6. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    I think it is unfair to declare Rodgers unable to come thru/be clutch in big games when he really only had one playoff game in his career as a starter. Let's see if this is a pattern in coming years before we decide.
     
  7. TheGiftedApe

    TheGiftedApe TheGiftedApe

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    I dont see big ben as an elite QB
     
  8. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Big Ben is a tricky one. I don't think of him that way either, but that bastard does have a knack for somehow finding a way to complete the do-or-die pass late in a big game to win it.

    That is the knock on Rodgers so far.

    Pugger, not just the one playoff game... where he began with a terrible INT and ended with a season-ending fumble. But other games he hasn't come thru on the last drive. First in 2008 when he failed late a lot, but also the defense failed to hold late.

    But last year, for example the horrific loss to Tampa Bay. Once Tampa Bay stole the lead late, we still got the ball back with plenty of time, and he didn't come through. Same the year before in Tampa Bay. Somehow, that team/stadium has gotten the best of us and Arod, even though they're a terrible football team.

    Rodgers did beat the Vikings to open the 2008 season in primetime, and then opened the 2009 season beating the Bears on primetime. And he played great at Pittsburgh in primetime, and vs Baltimore on primetime. He played well at Minny last year in primetime too, so I don't see him as a choker. He just needs more opportunities to get to big games.

    And that can't come until the pass defense and special teams gets better, frankly.
     
  9. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Regarding the non-ability to win close games
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpC3IvQdrLY]YouTube - Rodgers vs Favre: A Case For Rodgers[/ame]

    Yeah. The guy was wrong about Favre in 09. But, cmon, who could've predicted Favre would play SO DAMN well. If Favre had played like he did in 07, which was wonderful, he would've played worse than Rodgers...

    So he's got a point.
     
  10. Ghost of Billy Mays

    Ghost of Billy Mays Cheesehead

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    What about Tim Tebow, I heard he was the best ever......jk...relax. I agree about Tom Brady though. IMO, Peyton is numero uno, simply because he is an offensive coordinator that can throw TD's.
     
  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    2 things, first lets not knock brady just yet, he threw 5 TDs last season in a quarter. I dont think he will win another title but I dont think its time to rip him, he still has it. For the records I hate the pats.

    Also, all though it means nothing really, Rodgers does have the highest QB rating in NFL history
     
  12. Moshtradamus

    Moshtradamus Cheesehead

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    The regular season counts towards their clutch also. And like I said it hasnt always been Rodgers fault but the knock on him is that he cant come through and pull out those difficult wins.
     
  13. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I don't believe Rodgers should be that high either. There hasn't been a single report on him for smoking weed, pot or marijuana. Rodgers should therefore not be so high after all.
     
  14. DergaSmash

    DergaSmash Cheesehead

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    Ok, so I am going to have to take some grief for what I am about to type but oh well.


    Brady and Manning are overrated.

    Especially Brady. He has one of the best coaches running the show. He had a phenominal kicker winning the big ones at the end a lot of the time. His receiver corps and defense had always been much better than good.

    A lot of the same can be said for Manning. His O-line is rediculous. He has a posse of great receiving talent. I think Manning isn't as overrated because he shines at disecting defenses, he is a tactical genius, which Brady is not. However, they both can't throw on the run, and Manning is about as mobile as my grandma.

    Sure, if the line protects them the entire game, Manning and Brady usually do very well. Yet if they get pounded and pressured, they can't make plays with their feet or extend the play for very long.

    This is where Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers all shine. Sure Rivers has been spoiled a bit with a high powered offense and the better half of a decade of sweet play by LT, but all three are very accurate and can make or extend plays with their feet.

    My list goes like this:

    1. Brees
    2. Rodgers
    3. Favre
    4. Manning
    5. Rivers
    6. Brady

    I also thing that Rodgers needs at least another shot at a big game before it can be said that he isn't good in the clutch. I remember when he came in for Favre in Dallas and suprised a lot of people. I think he can handle it.
     
  15. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I really don't see where everyone is getting the idea that the Colts offensive line is really that good. It's Peyton Manning's decision making and quick release that makes their job easier. Jeff Saturday even said it himself on an NFL films special that Manning's adjustments lets the offensive line relax. Manning's recievers aren't even an ideal threat either. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are good recievers but they need Manning to make them work.
     
  16. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Marvin Harrison hasnt played in awhile. He has those rookie WRs I believe.
     
  17. gbforever

    gbforever Cheesehead

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    1. Peyton Manning-yeah he's had great recievers throughout his career (Harrison, Wayne, etc.) but I've never seen anyone who is better at reading defenses. As long as he's around, the other teams in the AFC south don't have a chance.
    2. Drew Brees-He makes everyone around him better, he can never be counted out of a game and managed to get the saints there first title in a 40+ year history. He arguably had better numbers than Manning last season.
    3. Aaron Rodgers-Is one of the Nfl's fastest rising stars at the QB position. Has had arguably the best first 2 years of any qb in history. He is an excellent decision maker who rarely will make a critical error. very good at protecting the football. He has also added another dimension to the Packers offense with his mobility. It has been said that he can't win in the clutch but in many of the games that his bashers point to, Rodgers played very well only to have the defense or special teams blow it. If he can play that well with an o-line that gave up 51 sacks, I can't wait to see what he can do with proper protection especially with the recieving corp the Packers have.
    4. Brett Favre-Has proven that he can have a good regular season but this past decade has shown that he has a habit of throwing ints in playoff games. His presence can give the players around him confidence. He is a gambler sometimes it works in his favor sometimes it doesn't. Favre has all the talent to win another SB but he has to show a lot more discipline and must be willing to let someone besides himself make a play.
    5.-Tom Brady-His best days may be behind him. He has excellent arm strenght and accuracy, but doesn't have Manning's ability to read defenses or Rodgers's mobility. his recieving corp also seems to have lost a step.

    I reserve the right to re-evaluate at the end of the season.
     
  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    If we were doing this for next season, I would say 1. Manning 2. Rodgers 3. Brady 4. Rivers

    Favre will come back to reality and Brees is the Madden cover boy so Im just going to write off next season for him now...
     
  19. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Guys, I am in a Keeper League in Fantasy Football.
    Cool league in which, as with RBs, you must start TWO QBs each week, so of course QBs are just as important as RBs, if not more.

    I have Peyton Manning and Rodgers.
    Should I trade Rodgers for Brees?
    Toughest call I have had in years.
    Rodgers actually had more points in fantasy last year, and you'd think he'll get better after just 2 years starting, and with our OL better than 12 months ago.

    Brees might be jinxed too.
    Rodgers is younger as well.

    But Brees is a surgeon, in a crappy division, all games in nice weather and many domes.

    Who'd do it?
     
  20. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    I actually agree with the original list. I think Rodgers has to do it one more year for me to move him ahead of Brady.
     
  21. DergaSmash

    DergaSmash Cheesehead

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    Don't trade Rodgers for Brees. Not just because of the Madden curse but because the O-Line will be better, a lot better. Brees and the Saints are going to have a hard time repeating their success. I'm not saying they can't but history tells us that it is not likely.

    I don't understand why everyone is so up on Tom Brady. First off, the whole super bowl argument is kind of lame IMO. The 53 man team wins the SB, not one man. Sure one player can make a spectacular play to win a SB, but the kicker was the Patriots guy to put them over the top in end more often than not.

    I am not saying he is bad or even mediocre. Far from it. But I think Brady is overrated. I think that if he somehow managed to lose Moss and Welker at the same time, he would have production issues.

    I think Manning is overrated too, although not to the degree Brady is. Reggie Wayne could start as the number 1 receiver on just about any team. When you add Gonzales, Clark, Addai out of the backfield, and Collie/Garcon's out of nowhere performances last season, no one can argue that their recieving corps is average or slightly above average. All of their recievers have ability.

    I think both of those quarterbacks would fare a lot differently if they had less around them. You can't honestly say that Brady or Manning would put up similar numbers if Hester was their number one guy. Or if they played for a team who's defense gave up 30 points a game.
     
  22. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    He won 3 Super Bowls throwing to David Givens, Troy Brown, and Deion Branch. None of them are very good.
     
  23. DergaSmash

    DergaSmash Cheesehead

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    The Pats defense during those years was straight nasty. They had a good running game. They had and still have great coaching and gamecalling. They also had Adam V kicking the game winners at the end. Tom Brady did not win 3 superbowls with 52 other guys from "Sister Mary's School for the Blind"

    The first of their 3 superbowl years, Brady threw for only 2800 yards with 18 tds and 12 ints. Hardly awesome.

    The next year was a bit better with 3600 yards but the 23 tds and 12 ints are still rather pedestrian for a QB who is supposed to be the man.

    The third year Brady threw for almost 3700 yards with 28 tds and 14 ints. Again not super duper mad-tastic spectacular. Cory Dillon also rushed for almost 1700 yards that year.

    Like I said, overrated.
     
  24. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    Well, if stats are all that matter, then there's the little matter of him owning the best season a QB has ever had. 4806 yards, 50 TD's, only 8 picks. You can't be "overrated" and do that.
     
  25. DergaSmash

    DergaSmash Cheesehead

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    I'm not saying stats are all that matter. And yeah he did have that monster year. But it is funny to me how that monster year happened when the Pats picked up Moss and Welker.
     

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