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Best guards in league?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The tackles are the weak link of the Packers OL, there´s no doubt about that.
     
  2. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Agreed, I don’t know how you look at the Packers OL and think it’s the OC that’s the problem. I too think it’s obvious the OTs are the weak point, particularly RT. I hope Thompson does sign at least one UFA but I don’t want that player to be an OC. EDS is not great but he’s good enough IMO. I’d like to see him and Tretter vie for the OC spot. If Bulaga can return healthy and Bakhtiari can gain strength in the offseason the OL should be improved.
     
  3. thisisnate

    thisisnate Cheesehead

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    I think we are in a very good position with our OL. These injuries have sucked, but the result is that we've been forced to keep drafting OL. I have to think at some point they'll stay healthy. I just have to. If and when they do, we have 3 studs in Bulaga, Sitton, and Lang. EDS is serviceable. Bakhtiari has been okay, and given that he's a 4th round rookie thrust into a starting T role, he's held his own. That's a line right there. That leaves Sherrod, Tretter, and Barclay, one of which I have to think will be better than just a decent rotational player. Tretter, for example, wouldn't have to be that impressive to replace EDS.
     
  4. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    I couldn't disagree more. The way we adjusted our OL play has really helped EDS. The guy is a hell of a football player, and well more than a back up. He may not be a great fit, but as I said, we have really adjusted to try to accommodate him. If you think you're getting Mack or Goodwin for less than 4 mil you're bonkers. The weakest link is clearly Barclay, who is flatly untalented. Barclay makes up for it a bit by not making mental errors and through sheer pride, but the guy has the feet of a sick donkey. We brought him in for his highboard at the Guard position, but had to put him back at Tackle due to various circumstances.
     
  5. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    In the "Does Daniels make Raji expendable" thread, you posted "EDS is a good back up (or is he now 'well more than that?'), and could even be good if he wasn't a complete misfit for our system." When asked how is he a "complete misfit", you posted, "His strengths don't play well to our system" and "the fact remains that he is a poor system fit".

    I then asked you, "What specifically makes him "a complete misfit" for the the Packers' system? (And if he were, wouldn't we see glaring problems in the running and/or passing game due to the "misfitting" of the OC?) What do you view as his strengths that don't play well in the Packers' system?” And you didn’t answer. Now you are saying the Packers adjusted OL play to help EDS.

    If you have an idea of how EDS is a complete misfit for the Packers system, and how his strengths don’t play well to the Packers system, and now, how the OL play has been adjusted I would sincerely appreciate reading them. What you are posting about EDS is more than he's just not that good, etc. But just saying something over and over again doesn’t make it true.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  6. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Lang is the Center of the future imo. Maybe Tretter or even Sherrod will be at guard. If they Let Wells who imo was a top 5 center walk then why not EDS? Granted Wells would have costed more money butyou bring back guys like Brad Jones for what 7 mil?? baffling.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  7. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    In that Daniels thread, I never once said EDS was a bad player, I did not say he was a bad player in this thread. I haven't said EDS is a bad player since the first few games of the season. I maintain that EDS is a very good player, and I want you to quote me on that. Once again so there's no confusion or misinterpreting, EDS is a very good football player.

    EDS has average athleticism and below average strength, but ironically enough excels at the second level and has incredibly good drive skills. I still don't like his linecalling, but I personally feel he has improved in that aspect as the season has gone on and will continue to improve. Part of that may be how complex our linecalls are. He doesn't hold the point well and his anchor isn't really strong, but he's a fighter and wily enough to frustrate DTs. In short, he's a slight pass block minus, and a run blocking plus. His lateral movement skills are only average as well, and he's better at moving guys backwards than he is at moving them sideways, but he'll clear anybody he sees in front of him when he pulls or when he peels off to the second level. We, as you were the first to point out, have added a lot more drive blocking, and even a bit of trap blocking (thanks IMO to the promotion of Hilgenberg) which is much better suited to the guys on the right side of our line. And to answer your parenthetical, not necessarily, especially considering Center is a position that you can make due with an average guy; and, as I once again affirm, because EDS is N-O-T a bad player. He deserves a new contract, and while I prefer that it be a short one, it should still be around 3 mil per year.

    Would like to tangent here and add that Lang is the man, having to sit between EDS and Barclay (both of which have needed combo blocks throughout the season, Barclay more than EDS) and complimenting them well with his violent hands has been a great pleasure to watch. Don't get me wrong, he's missed his fair share, especially early on this year (the 49ers game where he left the block before EDS got there, essentially just chipping the DL, sticks out in my mind), but he and Sitton have been phenomenal this season, and a riot on twitter too. We are freaking lucky to have them! Bakhtiari has been great too, and should solidify our left side when he picks up strength and fills his anchor this offseason. Barclay will be a solid backup G/RT. Sherrod can't be worse than Newhouse, and with a season at C under his belt Tretter should be better than GVR.
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    What do you base the quality of the oline on? What makes you say they were good? I disagree on your assessment of the ravens and 9ers O line last year.
     
  9. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I would say Lang is the RG of the present, not the center of the future. He's a good guard, why mess with it? EDS isn't a liability, and even if they do let him walk they'd probably just either groom Tretter for it, find a true guard in the draft or look in free agency. I doubt there's any way Lang moves permanently.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    So he has average athleticism but he excels at the second level and he has below average strength but has incredibly good drive skills? At least you label this as “ironic”. More than that, unless you can tell us what EDS’ line call was on several plays and what your preferred line call was on those plays, you don’t know enough to criticize his line calling and to know whether or not it’s improving.

    It’s my impression you previously have been posting you think EDS should be replaced. For example, in the Daniels thread you called EDS a good backup. In this thread you’re calling him “well more than a back up”. IMO there’s certainly nothing wrong with advocating for EDS demotion. I don’t think that’s a priority and think having Tretter and EDS battling for the spot is sufficient. If that happens, at least they’ll have a legit backup at OC and not have to shuffle the OL if the starter gets injured. Some are advocating Lang for OC, but I don’t think he’s quick enough and I really like the starting OGs where they now.

    But I think you are pretending to know more than you know in critiquing EDS’ line calls. And I think advocating re-signing him for around $3M/year contradicts calling him “a complete misfit” for the Packers system. And IMO posting he “excels at the second level and has incredibly good drive skills” contradicts, “His strengths don't play well to our system”.
     
  11. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    You may be right about the linecalls. I admit, all I see is what I perceive as missed assignments.

    Yes, I'd like to see EDS demoted, but the guy is a starter in this league (he's proved that to me) and could be a long term solution at Center. Not a great one, but a decent one none the less. Lang is anything but quick enough, and with the way his game relies on his hands, having at least one of them occupied is not a good idea. I saw all I needed to out of Lang at C when EDS went down. I'd move Bak to C before I move Lang, and no way am I moving Bak.

    As for the final comment, you're allowed your opinion, but it won't change mine. I do like how you immediately lay claim to the "right opinion" without ever saying it, and force me to prove mine. IMO that makes this a bit more fun :D. It's not a shot by any means, it's something I sincerely respect and a right you have earned. I'm the one making statements, I should have to prove them. I like that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014

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