Believe it or not, Favre isn't loved by all

[Pack93z]

While I definately don't fall into any of the categories listed on here, the editorial was interesting.

Heard most of it before, but I thought I would post it here to see what one Madison writer put down.

Get the tar and feathers out boys and girls.. I think this gent might get ran out of the state capital.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/index.php?ntid=263246&ntpid=1

Baggot: Believe it or not, Favre isn't loved by all

By ANDY BAGGOT
[email protected]

There's no gentle way to break this news to you, so I'll get right to it: Not everyone likes Brett Favre.

In the interest of having your undivided attention, I'll stop here for a bit so you can get the clucking, stomping and cursing out of your system.

Are you done?

Feel better?

All right then.

As hard as it might be for Packers fans to believe — especially now when Favre's national popularity index is higher than ever — there are those who are not at all enamored with the future Hall of Fame quarterback and current Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year.

I'm not talking about Bears apologists, Vikings masochists or Lions sufferers, either. Their contempt for Favre is understandable since he's generally made their NFC North Division lives miserable over the years.

I'm talking about Wisconsinites who, for whatever reason, have issues with Favre.

Granted, it's been a while since I've heard from any of them. Not only is their favorite whipping boy having his best season since coming to Green Bay in 1992, the Packers have clinched the division title and are tied with the best record in the NFC (12-2).

Based on periodic e-mail messages and the odd anonymous phone calls prior to this season, the Favre dissenters fell into five categories:

• There are those who believe Favre, who turned 38 in September, was washed up and should retire so the Packers could move on.

This group had some pretty compelling ammo during the 2005 and '06 seasons when Favre threw more interceptions (47) than touchdown passes (38) and had two of the lowest quarterback ratings of his career. Most notably, Green Bay was 12-20 during that stretch.

• There are those who believe Favre was/is selfish and egomaniacal in his advancing years.

These folks didn't like the fact Favre called out former teammate Javon Walker for being selfish in contract matters, then turned around and demanded a trade when Green Bay failed to sign Randy Moss.

• There are those who believe Favre was/is overrated among the best quarterbacks in NFL history.

Yes, he holds every major career passing record, but one of those is for interceptions and his postseason record (10-10) is unspectacular.

Favre has a Super Bowl ring, but if you're talking championships, he's not even the best QB in franchise history because Bart Starr has five.

• There are those who never got beyond Favre's off-the-field conduct earlier in his career.

Stories of his womanizing and drinking, not to mention his addiction to painkillers and his recent acknowledgemen t that he did all sorts of drugs, have been polarizing.

• There are those who compare Favre to Barry Bonds.

Just as Bonds set the all-time home run record seemingly juiced up on steroids, they believe Favre fashioned his streak of 252 consecutive starts in large part because he once gobbled a lot of Vicodin.

It should be noted these people are undeterred by the reality that Favre was taking a legal drug and steroids are illegal.

It's perfectly OK to embrace Brett Favre because there is a lot to love.

But not everyone does.

 

[trippster]

hmmmm, he must have been reading PF's posts over the last year.


And once again I will reitterate, Favre did not play any game while on Vicodin.

And what type of drugs did he recently admit to? I don't recall any such admission.

 

[wils0646]

Yea, it was Jemille Hill from ESPN who compared Bonds and Favre. Unbelievable. It was one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen.

 

[KGB94SACKEM]

Yep, I could have told you that by reading this forum. Brett's the man, end of story

 

[Zombieslayer]

There are those who believe Favre, who turned 38 in September, was washed up and should retire so the Packers could move on.

Do these people still exist? I know at the beginning of the year, there were a lot of them. But on pf.com, if I'm not mistaken, everyone's been won over by Favre's playing.

This article may have had relevance at the beginning of the year, but sounds dated now.

 

[tromadz]

There are those who believe Favre, who turned 38 in September, was washed up and should retire so the Packers could move on.

Do these people still exist? I know at the beginning of the year, there were a lot of them. But on pf.com, if I'm not mistaken, everyone's been won over by Favre's playing.

This article may have had relevance at the beginning of the year, but sounds dated now.

I agree.

 

[Pack93z]

There are those who believe Favre, who turned 38 in September, was washed up and should retire so the Packers could move on.

Do these people still exist? I know at the beginning of the year, there were a lot of them. But on pf.com, if I'm not mistaken, everyone's been won over by Favre's playing.

This article may have had relevance at the beginning of the year, but sounds dated now.

That is actually why I posted it.. seems like an odd time to publish something like this.. dude wants some serious attention.. in the "beating over the head" type of way.

 

[BryanAschenbrenner]

I cant' believe people think this guy is egotistical(SP?). Have they ever watched a press conference or heard the man speak?

 

[KGB94SACKEM]

There ARE people that feel this way. Sure, they have changed thier tune watching Brett this year, but next year or in the playoffs, if Brett starts throwing INT's they will be back calling for his head.

 

[Zombieslayer]

There ARE people that feel this way. Sure, they have changed thier tune watching Brett this year, but next year or in the playoffs, if Brett starts throwing INT's they will be back calling for his head.

Sure, but they're a loud minority.

On this specific forum, everyone who was anti-Favre in the beginning of the year changed their tune. We had an anti-Favre troll and he's been gone for months now. I don't think I've seen him since like week 5 or so.

 

[KGB94SACKEM]

There ARE people that feel this way. Sure, they have changed thier tune watching Brett this year, but next year or in the playoffs, if Brett starts throwing INT's they will be back calling for his head.

Sure, but they're a loud minority.

On this specific forum, everyone who was anti-Favre in the beginning of the year changed their tune. We had an anti-Favre troll and he's been gone for months now. I don't think I've seen him since like week 5 or so.

No doubt, but I don't think it would take much to get these people out of hiding if Brett were to have a string of bad games.

 

[Zombieslayer]

No doubt, but I don't think it would take much to get these people out of hiding if Brett were to have a string of bad games.

I don't think anyone can rationally argue we'd be 12-2 right now without Brett Lorenzo Favre.

I don't see us losing either of the next 2 games. At absolute worst, we end the season 13-3. That's pretty good.

 

[tromadz]

I thought Favre was losing it(he's old, would you have been shocked if it was true?) and he's proven me wrong. Sometimes I like being wrong.

 

[Greg C.]

I think 90% of the anti-Favre stuff is just people who like to try ripping down those who they perceive as high and mighty. They'll say that Brett Favre really isn't any good. Peyton Manning really isn't any good. Tom Brady really isn't any good. Just fill in the blank. There are a certain number of contrarians in every crowd.

But I make a distinction between those who dislike Favre and those who are fans but thought it was time for him to retire. Favre himself was struggling with the question of whether or not he should keep playing, so I don't think it was unreasonable to think, yeah, maybe it's time for him to hang it up. The people I have a problem with are those who think he's selfish or overrated or a cheater.

 

[rabidgopher04]

The points where Favre is 10-10 in the post-season and has less championships than Bart Starr are silly.

Those records really aren't his. They belong to the coaches and the other 52 players on the team during those years. He's not in complete control of a game. So ridiculous.

And when did Favre demand a trade?

 

[Gattocheese]

What people fail to realise is that its hard to find a franchise QB. Teams struggle and fail over and over because there QB sucks. To find a diamond in the rough is hard to do. When Brett is gone, he's gone. Will we have another Hall of Famer QB waiting? Probaly not. It could be another 15 years before we find a QB that could be a super bowl contender. I am not saying Rodgers is a bad QB, just saying that to think he will take this team to the super bowl or two is kinda overly optimistic. We will never see another Brett Favre.

 

[Obi1]

I'll fire Baggot tomorrow.

In the old days they did kill the messenger.

 

[packerfan4ever]

what will they say when he wins the super bowl :wink:

 

[mike_donnelly]

the argument about Brett having the INT's record is rudiculous. When you play as long as he has in a pass-happy offense, it's bound to happen. And his TD count is still well over 100 ahead of the INT's anyway. i'm sure michael jordan would have lots of turnovers, emmett smith probably had a lot of fumbles etc. but that doesn't take away from the positive stats that these guys racked up.

 

[vixtalkn]

A pointless article.

"There are those?" Who are "those?"

 

[Cdnfavrefan]

I think anyone who wants t6o be negative can. Marino doesn't have a ring. Manning sucks in playoffs, Brady wins cause of the team and coach, Montanna won cause of talent around him. Point is I could make an argument that there;s never been a good QB in this leageu. (Except Brett)

 

[gotarace27]

The people in wisconsin who don't like Brett are the same folks who walk their dogs in sweaters and go to wine tastings on new years eve.

 

[BobbyOShea]

While I definately don't fall into any of the categories listed on here, the editorial was interesting.

Heard most of it before, but I thought I would post it here to see what one Madison writer put down.

Get the tar and feathers out boys and girls.. I think this gent might get ran out of the state capital.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/index.php?ntid=263246&ntpid=1

Baggot: Believe it or not, Favre isn't loved by all

By ANDY BAGGOT
[email protected]

There's no gentle way to break this news to you, so I'll get right to it: Not everyone likes Brett Favre.

In the interest of having your undivided attention, I'll stop here for a bit so you can get the clucking, stomping and cursing out of your system.

Are you done?

Feel better?

All right then.

As hard as it might be for Packers fans to believe — especially now when Favre's national popularity index is higher than ever — there are those who are not at all enamored with the future Hall of Fame quarterback and current Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year.

I'm not talking about Bears apologists, Vikings masochists or Lions sufferers, either. Their contempt for Favre is understandable since he's generally made their NFC North Division lives miserable over the years.

I'm talking about Wisconsinites who, for whatever reason, have issues with Favre.

Granted, it's been a while since I've heard from any of them. Not only is their favorite whipping boy having his best season since coming to Green Bay in 1992, the Packers have clinched the division title and are tied with the best record in the NFC (12-2).

Based on periodic e-mail messages and the odd anonymous phone calls prior to this season, the Favre dissenters fell into five categories:

• There are those who believe Favre, who turned 38 in September, was washed up and should retire so the Packers could move on.

This group had some pretty compelling ammo during the 2005 and '06 seasons when Favre threw more interceptions (47) than touchdown passes (38) and had two of the lowest quarterback ratings of his career. Most notably, Green Bay was 12-20 during that stretch.

• There are those who believe Favre was/is selfish and egomaniacal in his advancing years.

These folks didn't like the fact Favre called out former teammate Javon Walker for being selfish in contract matters, then turned around and demanded a trade when Green Bay failed to sign Randy Moss.

• There are those who believe Favre was/is overrated among the best quarterbacks in NFL history.

Yes, he holds every major career passing record, but one of those is for interceptions and his postseason record (10-10) is unspectacular.

Favre has a Super Bowl ring, but if you're talking championships, he's not even the best QB in franchise history because Bart Starr has five.

• There are those who never got beyond Favre's off-the-field conduct earlier in his career.

Stories of his womanizing and drinking, not to mention his addiction to painkillers and his recent acknowledgemen t that he did all sorts of drugs, have been polarizing.

• There are those who compare Favre to Barry Bonds.

Just as Bonds set the all-time home run record seemingly juiced up on steroids, they believe Favre fashioned his streak of 252 consecutive starts in large part because he once gobbled a lot of Vicodin.

It should be noted these people are undeterred by the reality that Favre was taking a legal drug and steroids are illegal.

It's perfectly OK to embrace Brett Favre because there is a lot to love.

But not everyone does.

Is it me, or is this story completely irrelevant and non-newsworthy. It might have been ok to write about a year and a half ago, but I just don't get it. Mr. Baggot (*snicker) needs some material to write about. I recommend Jessica Simpson, or something..

 

[all about da packers]

the argument about Brett having the INT's record is rudiculous. When you play as long as he has in a pass-happy offense, it's bound to happen. And his TD count is still well over 100 ahead of the INT's anyway. i'm sure michael jordan would have lots of turnovers, emmett smith probably had a lot of fumbles etc. but that doesn't take away from the positive stats that these guys racked up.

A poster by the name of Arles compiled a great stat in one of the threads he started.

He basically took the great QBs to play the game, and broke down their INT percentage. In other words, he looked at the percentage of throws which were interceptions.

I don't have the exact figure, but Brett's percentage was around 3.0%, meaning 3.0% of Brett's throws have been intercepted. Blanda had somewhere near 6%, if not more. Interestingly enough, Brett's 3.0% was comparable to some other prominent names at QB (like Marino and Elway).

It was a stat that put things in perspective, I'll try to dig up the thread.

 

[all about da packers]

Someone needs to show Andy Baggot the following, all credit to Arles for the research and post:

Because of the large difference in pass attempts for many QBs, the INT record is a bit misleading (and you can also argue the TD one to a lesser degree). For instance, Blanda now has fewer INTs than Brett, but he threw a pick on 6.9% of his total pass attempts. On the flip side, Brett has thrown one on just every 3.3% of his passes.

So, a better measure is TD vs INT %. I checked the TD and INT % per attempt for some of the best passers of all time (with atleast 8 full seasons as a starter). I ranked them by difference between the two:

Young: 5.5%, 2.6%: +2.9
Manning: 5.6%, 2.8%: +2.8
Montana 5.1%, 2.6%: +2.5
Marino 5.0%, 3.1%: +1.9
Favre 5.0%, 3.3%: +1.7
Dawson 6.3%, 4.9%: +1.4
Jergensen: 5.9%, 4.5%: +1.4
Tarkington 5.3%, 4.1%: +1.2
Kelly 4.9%, 3.7%: +1.2
Elway 4.1%, 3.1%: +1.0
Moon 4.3%, 3.4%: +0.9
Unitas 5.6%, 4.9%: +0.7
Bledsoe 3.7%, 3.1%: +0.6
Aikman 3.5%, 3.0%: +0.5
Fouts: 4.5%, 4.3%: +0.2
Bradshaw 5.4%, 5.4%: 0