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Atheism

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by Lynch, Jul 1, 2007.

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  1. Lynch

    Lynch Cheesehead

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    [align=left]Well spoken I agree. That was the case in my country when christianity came here. It was just a way for the pope to control my country and then when our king during the 16th century changed the religion to Lutherism/Protestantism was he the one who had all the power, plus he could take all the gold from the chatolic churches and possibly torture the priests who refused to hand it over freely

    He must been a real convinced christian, cuz violence was the main word for them during that time when it comes to convincing people that christianity is a peaceloving religion but people have to die for not beliving in it[/align]
     
  2. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Like i said in a previous post..........no matter what it is, religion, charities, whatever, there are bad people that will use those things to fill their own pockets. Those people are criminals, not "christians". And they WILL answer for it some day. That is, if I'm right and there is a God they will pay for it!
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Alan, this is an excellent post!! I agree with the part of GOD creating us in his image and used the same materials..That really does make sense..

    I never heard of the mammoth with the grass story so I wanted to read up on it more..

    The carbon dating issues...Since the mammoths were encased in water or ice, this might be why the carbon dating is wrong.
    The foot prints was another thing I never heard of and I literally spent hours reading up on it and all the different web sites..I read parts where they say people went to the famous site to destroy evidence with an iron bar..Saw how one guy took a lie detector test to prove he found what he did and he didnt alter it..But for me, its all here say..

    The pictures of the human prints look like little duck prints to me..However just like looking at the clouds if you look hard enough you can see what could be human prints..

    I am not saying dinosaurs and humans didnt live together, but that the most "famous" tracks in Texas do not appear to be human tracks TO ME

    This is the only thing I could find on researching it all that COULD disprove the notion that humans and dinasours walked together...

     
  4. Lynch

    Lynch Cheesehead

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    [align=left]Have you been in school?
    Do you know how the half-life of radioactive material works????
    It doesn´t get effected by or other things

    How do you explain that uranium can be found that has never no radioation left? Uraniums half-life is over 20 000 years(or more ive not checked it out). Explain that

    To you and cheesey try to find out what you talk about instead of pretending that you know.

    Accully i´m sometimes stunned over some of the posts, I mean if it was wroten 200-300 perhaps 100 years ago then I would understand. But 2007?
    [/align]
     
  5. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    WOW?!?!?!?! You really have a holier than tho attitude ( no pun intended at all ) with this post


    Re-rerad that post brother...

    I quoted an article I READ online..


    I am not a scientist, nor have I taken a class on radio-active crap..All I did was look into carbon dating and what MIGHT explain why that mammoth had different ages..

    Not once did I claim my insight to be true..


    Here it is once again for you to RE-READ..

    ~~~~ That is my part..this next part is an explanation from an EXPERT as to why carbon dating doesnt sometimes work..


    Have I ever been rude and tell you to type your words in proper English and use proper terms because I dont want to sit here and decipher your sentences?? No I havent, I dont say a word, so for you to sit there and say I didnt go to school is just as rude..

    I am sometimes stunned on how people in other countries think they can correnspond with us in a football forum with their broken english
     
  6. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    Thanks Carol and Cheesy!! I just feel bad that I dont go to church cause I was raised to go to church every Sunday. Those values are instilled in you when you are a little child.

    I try to live everyday to the fullest and help where I can. I know I have a good heart and I am an emotional person.

    I do believe now that as long as you believe in God and live your life to the fullest, be kind, be generous you cant do anymore then that.

    I should start going to church on Sundays I want the Packers to win to...LOL...
     
  7. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    LT, they have found more then one well preserved mammoth up in the north, frozen in an upright position. The one i was talking about was dug up and filmed by National Geographic. Now, think about it, what are the chances of an animal that big, landing in an upright position? And NOT being destroyed by scavengers, or decomposition? And the fact that the grass IN IT'S MOUTH was still green. How fast does grass turn brown once it's been pulled out of the ground? Pretty fast. If grass was found somewhat preserved INSIDE a mammoth, the body of the animal might have helped that. If the mammoth died in water, again, how long would that body have survived without decomposing? Have you ever seen a dead fish in water? Npw think about an animal weighing several tons!
    And if it was in water, (which it obviously was) it had to have froze real quick to not decompose. Or it would have been very rotted. Yet it was in almost perfect condition!
    I think the evolutionists are just trying to explain away the REAL reasons it was so preserved. (And others like it)
    It seems anytime something like this comes up that doesn't support their "religion", they try to bury it or explain it away.
    Plus there are many cave drawings that show man hunting "dinosaurs", which they try to explain away.
     
  8. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    It's your "religion" Lynch. Thats why you will insult, or do anything to TRY to make it make sense.
    After you get back just a few "half lifes" of radioactive dating, it's impossible to accuratly measure. Thats fact.
    So you have to believe on blind faith that it's accurate. The same blind faith you blast us Christians for having in a God.
    You "pretend" to know that all the stuff the so called "scientists" have fed you since you were a baby. But truth is, NONE of it is provable. It's all just a "theory" made up by one man. With NO proof. It's been 150 years since he wrote that book of fiction, and there STILL is not ONE piece of proof.
    You believe cause you choose to believe it, not because theres any proof that it's right.
    Same as my choice to believe that the wonderful things we have were invented by intelegent design, not by some weird chance.
    You can believe your relatives were monkeys if that makes you happy. But mine didn't swing from trees.
     
  9. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Please do not take this the wrong way...

    I didn't read this entire thread (the first page and a half of religious diatribe was enough for me), however I have to say if someone is honestly trying to argue that man and dinosaurs co-existed on this planet at the same time, they desperately need to go back to school, or start taking their meds regularly.

    Hands down, that is the most ridiculous claim I have ever read outside of fringe conspiracy theories. Please tell me it was posted as a joke.

    BTW: Quoting websites is not always the best way to back up your argument. Please click the link below for a good example why:

    Proof that the Earth is flat. :roll:

    Darwin never claimed we evolved from monkeys. He claimed that modern primates share a common ancestor with modern man. You should really try to understand the subject matter being discussed before trying to disprove its validity.
     
  10. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    A common "ancestor" you say? How about a common DESIGNER!
    As far as stating that i need to "go back to school", lets use your own example of the earth being flat. Back then, thats what the "schools" (education) taught everyone. They had no more proof that the earth was flat then evolutionists have today that we "evolved". Yet thats what those people taught kids from little on up. And they, like you, insulted anyone that believed the earth was round. People scoffed at the few that said the earth was round. Yet check out the Bible, it tells all along that the earth was ROUND. Check it out yourself!
    But hey, because the government schools teach it, it MUST be true, right? So you take the whole evolution myth hook, line, and sinker. Yet belittle me because I don't believe that fairy tale.
    Hey, what are the chances of an electroinics factory blowing up, and a running computer being made by the explosion? Yet you want to believe that all the animals, plants, birds, EVERYTHING just popped out of nothing.
    "Millions of years ago" should be replaced with "Once upon a time". It would be more honest, as it would be starting as most fairy tales start.
    The reason you believe what you do is years of brain washing from our "schools". You are not taught to think, you are taught WHAT to think.
    I saw in a science book where they asked the kids in a test "Do you think man has evolved as far as he can?" There is no way for a kid to answer that without saying he evolved, period. Thats like asking a question like "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" If you say "No!" Then you are still beating her, if you say "Yes!" you are admitting you beat her in the first place. There is no room for "I NEVER beat my wife!" So evolutionists leave NO room for anyone to believe anything but their religion, (which is what it is). Kids can't pray or carry a Bible into school, but they get evolution (which is NOT provable in any way) shoved down their throats. It's not science, it's science fiction. If evolution is true, how about someone out there showing something evolving into another life form today? They can't, because it isn't happening now..........nor has it ever happened. Man and dinosaurs DID live at the same time. There is no proof they didn't. If you want to believe they didn't live at the same time, be my guest. But you have no proof they didn't. I have seen cave drawings where they showed men with spears hunting dinosaurs. There and hundreds of those drawings. And mans history is FULL of writtings about men killing "dragons" (which is what dinosaurs were called before the term "dinosaur" was coined). But i guess all that history can just be ignored, right? Because it doesn't fit the belief of the day.
    And you are right, people have done all KINDS of awful things in the name of "god". Lots of people haven't even tried to "use" him in that way, and do just plain awful things because thats what they want to do. Anyone that does things in god's name that are bad, they will pay for some day. (Unless I am wrong, and there is no god. Then they get off scott free!) If you want to believe that, be my guest. I'd like to believe there WILL be justice some day.
    God did not create us to be "robots". He gave us free will, a freedom to choose Him or reject Him. Adam and Eve had only ONE thing they were told they could not do, yet they chose to break that ONE law. So through them, which are are TRUE ancestors, we are born into sin. Have you EVER sinned in your life? Ever lied? Ever cursed anyone? Ever got angry? Then you have sinned and are not perfect. As far as I know, no one on the earth at this time is perfect. Is that God's fault, or mans fault?
     
  11. Fuzznuts

    Fuzznuts Cheesehead

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    Cheesey said,

    It didn't come by chance, it came by EVOLUTION!

    We crawled out of the sea, into the forest, started swingin' on trees, and eventually started walking upright and became man. Didn't you ever watch The Planet of the Apes?

    How else would you explain that we share about 95% of our DNA with Chimpanzees?

    Why can't you believe that God created the big bang and that evolution happened just the way he planned it? Who else would have a firecracker that powerful?

    You're going to be have a hell of a shock Cheesey, if you get up to heaven and you realize that God is a Monkey or an Amoeba.
    :wink:

    "I don't believe in God, I just believe in Ted Thompson".

    Plus, I'd never buy a Volkswagon (or a car made in Sweden), I'm strictly a Chevy man.
     
  12. Lynch

    Lynch Cheesehead

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    [align=left]Haha well spoken

    That people can imgaine that god created evolution or what ever thats fine with me that I don´t care about. But don´t belive it at all, yeeez

    I must ask you Cheesy does computer exist back there in the 15th century? Just kidding with you but anyway, it´s weird man :-? [/align]
     
  13. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Lynch......you believe we all got here by just chance. Is that any crazier then thinking we were made this way by a superior being?
    If you are wearing a wrist watch right now, look at it. Do you have to see who made it to know that somewhere some person DID in fact make it? Or do you believe it just appeared out of some sun dial evolving millions of years ago into your watch today?
    You might think that comparison is crazy, but is it more crazy then thinking that the intricate parts of all creatures and plants just saying "I'm tired of living in the water, i think i'll grow me some lungs!" So what happened to the "in between" creatures, when they didn't quite have gills, and not quite lungs? Could they breathe both from air AND water? If so, why wouldn't they stop there? I mean, wouldn't it be a higher life form to be able to do both? And much more beneficial? Reason and evolution can't coexist.
    You might think my view is crazy, but i see it as your blind faith in everything just appearing out of nothing as crazy.
     
  14. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I always love the "we share the same DNA" as proof of evolution. We, and EVERYTHING was designed by the same designer, GOD. He used the same materials to make all things. So we share some of the same DNA. If we were not made of similar materials, we wouldn't be able to digest anything we eat. God was pretty smart that way, don't you think?
    And WHY would an all powerful God waste millions of years on evolution? And if we did evolve, wouldn't he have TOLD us that? Yet that was never even thought of till Darwin made up the whole thing. I think he used an island where he found a bunch of different finches (birds) and wrote his whole theory based on those birds. Yet every single one of them were just BIRDS. They were not birds that could breathe under water, or birds that grew tails they could use to swing from trees. Just plain old birds........and a VIVID imagination.
    Plus, if the "big bang" ever had happened, we would have proof, wouldn't we? If it was an explosion of a spinning dot (as i was taught in public school) everything would be spinning in the same direction as it went out from where this explosion happened. Yet planets in our own galaxy spin the opposite direction. It's not scientifically possible if this "big bang" theory ever really happened. Yet they teach the kids that this garbage is "fact". I even saw it on the cover of a magazine just this week on a magazine rack.
    My Bible says we are made in His image.........i looked in the mirror, and although i'm not the best looking dude, i still don't look like a chimpanzee.

    I remember when i was in school in the 1970's. The big thing we were taught back then in the public schools was that we were headed for a new "ice age!" They were screaming this to us every day! It was TERRIFYING!!! Now we have Al Gore and his cronies, just 30 years later, screaming about "global warming!!!" We are all gonna fry!!!
    So which is it??? But BOTH were taught in schools, so they BOTH must be true, right?
    Here is a thought...........if the earth is "millions of years old", how come it wasn't sucked in by the sun's gravity millions of years ago? Think of how much hotter the sun would have been back then, and how strong it's gravity would have been. The earth wouldn't have survived at all, let alone all the other planets. 5 or 6 thousand years, its possible. But not "millions of years". But that thought line doesn't fit evolution teachings, so they just ignore it.
     
  15. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    Cheesy you have some pretty good reads on this one so far have agreed with you 100%
     
  16. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Thanks Hedder...........I'm just trying to apply a little thought into this thread. If you question the evolution theory, there are many people that think you are crazy. Even though there is no more proof of it ever happening then i can prove that God exists. BOTH are based on blind faith. The only difference is, I ADMIT mine is based on blind faith, while the evolutioist religion says theirs is based on fact.
    Even if evolution WAS true (which as i have stated, so far in 150 years of looking, there is still no proof) it doesn't prove that God DOESN'T exist.
     
  17. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I think this topic needs to steered back to its original question.

    Those that do trust in GOD, do it cuz as Alan keeps saying is we have blind faith..

    I think an Atheist looks at it more as, I need absolute proof..

    I have heard these questions in my life from other people who dont believe at all..

    How can EVERY PERSON come from Adam and Eve with out it being incest?

    How can we have so many different types of ethnic people if we all came from Adam and Eve??

    And the most popular one..

    If we are not allowed to kill because GOD says so, why is it he allows people to be killed every single day??

    So is that the reasoning for not believing?

    I think those of us that do believe can answer every single question cuz of our faith..And those that dont, need proof...
     
  18. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Good points LT.
    With the Adam and Eve questions, we as humans were still very close to perfection right after being created. There wasn't the disease or the weak traits in the human gene pool then. Thats why people lived for over 900 years.
    With the different ethnic groups, there are all the makings of light skin, dark skin, hair and eye color differences in mankind. People that lived in areas where it's hot and sunny, like Africa, adapted dark skin to survive. A light skinned person wouldn't last long in that environment. God put those things in humans (and other creatures) to assure the survival of humans and animals if their environment changed. My brother had very dark skin, black hair and brown eyes. I have light skin, blonde hair and blue eyes. Yet we had the same parents. Both traits were in my parents gene pool.

    As far as God allowing people to kill, He made us as free will creatures. Unfortunatly for us and all mankind, man is sinful and does as he pleases, and this means all crime and murder. God didn't want it that way for us, He WANTED us to remain pure, and to have fellowship with Him and by our own choice to worship Him. He COULD have made us as robots that obeyed His every command. But He gave us "free will".......and look where it got us.

    Sad as it is, there is NO way to show absolute proof to an atheist that God exists. Heck, when my Dad died when i was 16, I questioned how God could allow that to happen, and I questioned His existence. But after looking at both God and evolution, I couldn't see how just some goofy chance could have made all that we see around us. There is no proof that either God or evolution happened, but my own expieriences in my life have shown me God is real. Through things that have happened to me that could not be explained away by mere chance. Of course because they happened to me, they can't be shown as proof to someone that hasn't had these things happen directly to themselves. I can tell people what happened to me, but they can choose to not believe me. I can't PROVE to them that what happened to me was real. They can say I'm lying, and I can't prove I'm not.
     
  19. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    So Alan your saying those ethinic groups EVOLVED??

    not trying to start anything, but thats the point of some people..

    Did GOD give the the ability to adapt, or did those people over years and years and years get the body just by being in that situation the chance to adjust its self?
     
  20. PackFanInSC

    PackFanInSC Cheesehead

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    Longtime,
    Thanks for re-directing the thread back. It had taken a dangerous turn and was probably heading toward getting locked.


    As far as the ethnic groups, maybe we are looking at it backward. Instead of man developing darker skin because he lived in a sunnier climate, maybe those people who moved to cooler climates after the Tower of Babel became lighter skinned as their bodies did not need the same level of melanin to protect them from the sun. It would be perfectly reasonable, and attest to the efficiency of God's design, that our bodies would make lesser amounts of a hormone that we did not really need.
     
  21. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Now that makes lot more sense to me..
     
  22. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Which god do you speak of? Jahweh? Vishnu? Cthulhu? You really should be more specific. None of the aforementioned gods have anything in common with each other, or each other's belief systems.

    BTW: A 6000-year old manuscript that has been rewritten and revised hundreds of times is not "proof" of anything more than the various copies of the Necronomicon floating around the net (I am partial to the Simon version, myself). If you wish to use such as proof, please cite the original text. Anything else is no more valid than Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos would be.

    Actually, in the 15th century there were no schools. People were purposely kept ignorant by the state so they would not question the Church's ultimate authority (well, that and the fact the Feudal system basically made them slaves). Don't belive me? Research what the Church thought of Gutenberg when he started to mass-printing the bible on his printing press. Here's a hint: they were not happy at all he was spreading the 'holy word' (in German) to say the least.

    Do you even have a clue what you are talking about? I would wager you have never read the Origin of the Species, nor ever taken a course in basic anthopology. In fact, it appears you have about as many qualifications to dispute YEARS od scientific research as I do to claim I am a nuclear physicist. Seriously, this is truly quite comical.

    Can you cite this passage please? Book and verse is fine.

    While we are on the topic, what about St. John 8:44 where Christ calls the Jews the children of Satan: "Ye are of your father, the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." By your logic, I guess Hitler wasn't such a bad guy after all. :roll:

    I never tried to explain where they came froml. You are making assumtions and insinuating a great deal.

    BTW: The state taught the religious fairy tale, not the scientific one. Your example is perfect from my side of this debate.

    You mean like the brainwashing church has been doing for hundreds of years? Isn't this the basis for "Catholic guilt"? It sure has made the Vatican rich, hasn't it?

    Science is not a religion, as it is not based on dogma. Science can evolve as new theories are put forth and proven. You religion, on the other hand, is based on ridiculous ideas from hundreds if not thousands of years ago, and is unable to keep up with progress lest you alienate the core of your followers.

    Have you ever heard of the Galapagos Islands? I didn't think so.

    Proof of Darwin's theory in reality.

    Ok.... How much formal education have you actually achieved? This entire debate is comedy gold.

    OK... So how can you validate the age of these alleged "drawings" if you cannont validate the age of dinosaur bones? How do you know when these drawings were made? Could they not have been made a year ago? A decade? A century? Or are you trying to argue that you can carbon-date the cave paintings, but not the bones of dinosaurs? Or are you actually saying that man has existed on this planet for well over 350 million years?

    Christ-on-a-stick... Have you ever even heard of geology? You know, the science of the earth and it's layers? How come dinosaur bones and fossils have been found at depths from the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods, but man's bones have not? Why has no modern human skeleton EVER been found that predates the Upper Paleolithic? Why am I wasting my time explaining this to you? You have absolutely no proof whatsoever to back up your ludicrous claims. You simply keep repeating the same tomfoolery and telling me (and by extesion the entire scientific community, university graduates and ayone else with an education) that WE are all wrong, and YOU are right. Sorry dude, but on a bet between you and the rest of the world, the smart money is on the world.

    Just remember: Nothing happens contrary to science, only contrary to our understanding of it. If you wish to debate this further, please use some kind of facts to substantiate your arguement.
     
  23. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Isaiah 40:22: He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
     
  24. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    This is the proof you claim about the bible saying the earth is round? Why can't "the circle of the earth" be shaped like a dinner plate? It would still be flat in that case... Not a sphere which was the point of your arguement.

    I certainly hope you can do better than that....
     
  25. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Thank you for proving my point. You do realize what you posted above is the core of Darwin's Theory of Evolution, don't you? :lol:
     
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