1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Atheism

Discussion in 'The Atrium' started by Lynch, Jul 1, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PackFanInSC

    PackFanInSC Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    563
    Ratings:
    +0

    Sorry -- Not taking the bait. Political discussions are frowned upon here. :eek:fftopic:

    Aren't you from Canada? Who is Canada's PM anyway?
     
  2. jdlax

    jdlax Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    818
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeah, I know, I was sort of inferring that religion and politics can both degenerate into a "You're wrong. I'm right" mess on a message board, so why ban one and not the other? I dunno.

    Anyways, Canada, yes. The guy's name is Stephen Harper, a Conservative.
     
  3. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    Good post. I know I'm sure not good enough to deserve God's grace. I sin every day. Not that i WANT to sin, but i'm honest enough to admit it. I am just a weak human. No one is perfect, and i sure know that i myself am no way NEAR perfection.
    I'm not better or more deserving then anyone else.
     
  4. PackwillBEback

    PackwillBEback Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    461
    Ratings:
    +38
    I'm an Atheist, mainly for my dislike of religion, my logic, and what it hasn't done for me when I did turn to it...
     
  5. Lynch

    Lynch Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    183
    Ratings:
    +0
    [align=left]Finally is someone answering my question that I made in the beginning of this thread and finally is someone else Atheist too.

    Anyway I think the same as you PackwillBEback[/align]
     
  6. PackFanInSC

    PackFanInSC Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    563
    Ratings:
    +0

    I am seriously not trying to demean your beliefs but I need to ask you what being an Atheist HAS done for you.

    What has it given you that believing in God could not?

    Is there a sense of security, or freedom, or peace that not believing in God gives you?

    Or is it just the distancing yourself from "religion" or the list of man-made rules that the church made that were too restrictive and confining that causes you to want not to believe?
     
  7. vegOmatic

    vegOmatic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    393
    Ratings:
    +0
    I hear this argument a lot from athiests, the religion thing turns them off. There is no logic to that; the folly of man and his inventions does not prove there is no god as much as it proves there is one.

    I don't have any answers to The Question but the noise from the nutcases on both sides doesn't help.
     
  8. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Ratings:
    +22
    Not that I don't believe in God and Jesus, cause I do, but I can weigh in on this aspect.. yes the decisions and rules from man did make me turn away from going to church on a regular basis and did in a way force me to research and look into other denominations.

    Not to go to far with this, but when the church starts to lecture on how much you donate and give to the church in monetary ways, then I tell you it is time for the church to rethink its overall purpose. Church is there to worship God, not the almighty dollar. This among other practices of the church has driven me away from the church not God himself.
     
  9. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,855
    Ratings:
    +22

    I don't know you nor the things that have taken place in your life, but I would like to share a little bit of my experiences with you. Particularly one day in 1987.

    It was a Sunday and we as a family like every Sunday, got up did the chores on the dairy farm and attended church. After returning from church, I got a call to go ATV'ing with some friends. After several hours the unthinkable happened, I got into a head on accident with a pick up truck. There were 4 wheelers that day, and I being the 3rd in line got hit. Lost a limb and a football career in a blink of an eye.

    Laying in the hospital bed and for a couple of years after it, I was torn and angry that this had happened to me. Why did God do this to me, what hadn't or have done to deserve this. I struggled to remain in belief of God's grace and what he had chosen for me.

    A couple of years later, I got the answers on two seperate occasions less than a month apart during my first year of college.

    First, right before I was going to off to school, one of the girls that was with that day, had her first child. If she would have gotten hit that day she probably won't have lived and thus this sweet child would not have been born.

    Second, I joined a mentor group in College my first week there and was assigned an 14 year old child that was involved in a car wreck and was bound to a wheelchair after it. The family and this child leaned on what I had learned and went through in my accident. Coping with the loss of a basketball career and walking among many other terrible truths.

    Now you can choose to believe that there is a reason for it or that it was just plain poor luck or decisions on my part for getting into the accident. For me, I see a purpose in being chosen because I shouldn't have lived and walked away from the accident in 87, but I did. Others probably would not have with their body size and build.

    Not saying your beliefs are incorrect and that you should change, just giving a different vision through someone else's eyes for a few moments.
     
  10. Lynch

    Lynch Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    183
    Ratings:
    +0
    [align=left]My country is a free country and you can belive what you want and I´m sure it´s that in your country too, except that it´s dangerous to be a muslim over there, but anyway I have never been forced to belive anything and I can´t say that I have traumatic excperience with religion.

    But it´s just that I don´t belive in religion and think that´s not the answer for me, that´s my decision. If no one can understand that then they are pathetic idiots to me, I could have used another word but that could get me expelled or something from this forum.

    It maybe wrong for me to use the word Atheist and say that I am, it apperently is a too strong word in your country or at least it seems like it. But it´s much easier to say that I´m an Atheist then always saying that"I don´t belive in a god or any other religion. I rather make out my mind by my own then let me be controlled by a religion" I think atheist is a much easier thing to say instead.

    Anyway religion have not given my society or me anything but I can understand that it can be good for some people in crisis. Otherwise is religon something that people, at least were i live, start to abonden slowly by time.[/align]
     
  11. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    Unfortunatly, man has often USED God and "religion" to fill their own pockets. However, that is NOT God's fault, that is mankinds fault. I was turned off by the constant attack of my wallet. But again, that is man. ANYTHING can be misused if in the wrong hands. But to those that DO misuse God, man, all i can say is i sure wouldn't want to be them come judgement day! To those that much is given, much is required.

    Lynch.....why do you feel you have to insult those that only want good for you? You could state that you don't want God without calling me a pathetic idiot, couldn't you? Yet you choose to make a personal attack at every opportunity.
    If that is how a life without God makes a person treat others, thats not the life for me.
    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
    Thats a Bible verse, but you don't have to believe in God to see that it holds merit.
    You should treat others as you would want to be treated. You obviously haven't been taught that lesson yet, or just don't care about anyone but yourself.
     
  12. PackFanInSC

    PackFanInSC Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    563
    Ratings:
    +0
    Cheesey,
    It is a natural, human response to lash out when what you believed to be true is challenged. To me, that is what Lynch is doing. Compare it to Wiley Coyote :D . In the Roadrunner cartoons, Wiley is hanging by a rope over the edge of the cliff. Roadrunner comes up and takes out a pair of scissors (don't ask where roadrunners keep their scissors :-? ) and cuts the rope. What is Wiley's reaction? He desperately tries to climb the rope before it falls, only to run out of rope. Lynch feels that, if he is true to his word and bases his decisions on logic, that his position is slipping away and he is desperately trying to hang on. In his frustration, he has thrown out a few insults. I would ask the mods to overlook them in this case as this conversation has a much higher implication eternally than someone getting their toes stepped on.

    I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit is convicting Lynch of the truth that has been expressed here and I can see why he may respond as he has. Why else would he have not dropped the discussion when he felt eh was being ganged up on? This thread in on its 60th day -- having started on July 1. Yet, the Holy Spirit keeps directing him back here -- he may think it is to state his point but, in doing so, he reads what we have to say and God's Word does not return void. He will get the message across that He wants to.

    If Lynch wants to call us a couple of names (Has he called me any yet, I have not noticed), that is a small price to pay. It pales in comparison to the price that Jesus paid for us.
     
  13. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,405
    Ratings:
    +2
    I won't lock this thread at this time but let's keep the discussion about the subject in general and not personal.


    The important point is that there is only one truth. Either there is a god or there is not. Which side of the fence makes the most sense?
     
  14. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    I'm not hurt that he insults........it's not going to change what i desire for him. I hope to be able to spend forever with him. If wanting that makes him think i'm some kind of nut, thats ok with me. If i had a dollar for everytime i have been insulted, i'd be rich! :lol:
    I only wanted him to look at why he might be trying to attack.......maybe he would see the reason and try to see past it. I KNOW no one likes to think that they may be wrong on something. Heck, i have been wrong PLENTY of times in my life. It's not a good feeling at all, thats for sure!
     
  15. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,338
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes, there is only one truth. It's that da Bears will never win the big one with Rex Grossman as their QB, no matter how many returns Hester runs back or how many takeaways their defense gets. :lol:
     
  16. Popcynical

    Popcynical Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    519
    Ratings:
    +0
    I used to be a Christian... but I'm not so sure any more. I'm probably agnostic...
     
  17. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,743
    Ratings:
    +2,983
    I personaly believe in GOD...

    Some think prove it to me..
    Prove to me a super all knowing "being" created everything we know in 6 days..

    Some just believe cuz that is what they are told to do as a tiny tiny child..




    However if you think about it, when people say they have proof ( pictures, old time paintings, videos) aliens are real they are laughed at or they get called nutts..

    but if you say someone way back when walked on water, ( only by word of mouth no real visual proof) and performed numerous of things of super natural ablities, they praise that person and call him Jesus..
     
  18. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    And others think that all you have to do is add "millions of years" and a rock can become all the animals, all the plants, and even mankind. As if LOTS of TIME makes ANYTHING possible.
     
  19. carol k

    carol k Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    592
    Ratings:
    +0
    I just got on this discussion and find it quite interesting. I am a Christian and have been all of my life. I look at all the things that surround me==children, grandchildren, my husband, my immediate family, and the beauties of natue--and thing that there just has to be a wonderful Creator who made them all.

    I have had experiences where I think God has had a hand in making them happen. I also believe in the power of prayer. Yes, our prayers aren't always answered the way we want them to be, but they ARE answered. For example, when we had been married for awhile and decided it was time to have children, I prayed and prayed about it. Never did get pregnant, but we adopted two wonderful children who would never have had what we gave them. God didn't give me children the way I wanted, but he did give me a wonderful son and daughter.

    I think this was quite an interesting discussion, and i love the comment that someone had made about "what do you think the G on the helmet stands for?" Will have to remember that when I am with my viking friends and relatives.
     
  20. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    The "G" was me Carol! (No surprise there, hey???LOL!)
    You know......i never had kids either. But that doesn't mean i haven't had influence in many young people's lives. I would have LOVED to have someone to call me "dad", but for whatever reason, it wasn't to be. You were able to give 2 kids love and a home that they maybe never would have had, had you not been there for them.
    It's the lives who you touch when you are here that are important. We may have some pleasant surprises for us when we reach our final destination.
    I also look around and marvel at all the beauty we are able to see. The colors and the smells. How intricate everything is. How many trillions upon trillions of cells just our one body alone has, and each one has it's own duty. We are wonderfully made!
     
  21. PackFanInSC

    PackFanInSC Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    563
    Ratings:
    +0

    Carol,
    I don't know what it is about it but, when I read your post, it is refreshing. It is like a breath of fresh air in a conversation that has, quite often in the past 2 months, gotten very tense. A lot of our posts have been Cheesey, Lynch, and myself just trying to find new ways to say the same thing. I can just feel the joy of the Lord in your words -- even though He has obviously placed you in a hostile land (MN) :lol:

    Thank you.
     
  22. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,274
    Ratings:
    +0
    I am a catholic, not that I go to church every sunday like catholics are suppose to do. I havent been to church in so long, I do feel guilty about it and I should make the time to go.

    I do believe there is a god, like LT said in his post when we are little some of us believe in god cause that is what we were raised to believe. I think in todays world we have to believe in something. No, prayers are not always answered, but IMO everything happens for a reason and it could be in gods will what the end result is whats going to be. Look at Carol she couldnt have children of her own but she has been blessed with two children that didnt have a home so she was blessed enough to give them one. So many children dont have homes, and love. I was blessed to have one son, I couldnt have anymore children but so glad that I was blessed with him, he has been the joy of my life.

    I do feel if you live a great life and you respect the people around you, also lend a helping hand to a stranger when you can. Give an ear to someone who needs to cry or to just talk cause they have had a bad day. All in all if you are a good person with a great heart you are living your life the best way that you can.
     
  23. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    Don't worry Hedder...........going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore then going to the Zoo makes you an elephant!
    It's whats inside you that counts!!!
    Heck, YOU know that already!!! :D
     
  24. carol k

    carol k Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    592
    Ratings:
    +0
    Heather, I am a Catholic, too. I do go to church every Sunday, but as Cheesy says, going to church doesn't make you a Christian. I go because I need the reenforcement it gives me to try to live a better life. I don't think the good Lord is going to ask us if we went to church every Sunday. I firmly believe he is going to say what kind of a life did you live--even if He does know it, he will want our response.

    By the way, I know plenty of Catholics who go to church every Sunday, but do not live a Christian life. I know other people who do not go to church every Sunday, but they live a good Chrisitan life.

    On a lighter note, during football season we start out the day going to church hoping that will help the Pack win. JK
     
  25. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Ratings:
    +0
    To answer the original question, I guess I would be an athiest. I do not believe in gods, leprechauns nor the Tooth Fairy neither.

    There has been more blood spilled in the name of god than any other reason in the history of humankind. If there is a god, he has certainly proved himself to be a god of blood. Outside of sectarian violence fought between religious factions every day around the world, how many killers have been in possession of well-worn religious tomes? How many terrorists and other whacked-out cultists?

    If god is all loving and forgiving, how could he condemn me to an eternity in hell for not believing in him? Would that not make him a hypocrite by his actions, seeing he allegedly gave me conscious thought to begin with? How can you possibly explain the misery in Africa or the Black Plague of Europe if all things come from this allegedly all-loving god?

    Simply put, religion was invented by humans as a means to control the population.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page